ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Timed]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:03 AM, Sigur Ros said:

People need to stop linking to his vids.

I thought against it, but wanted to give credit to him in this particular instance as I did not see the 266 direct to newsstand swap posted anywhere else.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/21/2023 at 11:18 AM, VintageComics said:

I can see AI being used to prevent, or at least catch or highlight fraud in the future. 

I can't see it EVER replacing graders. There's too much involved with grading a 3 dimensional object like a book with many pages for just a program to do on it's own. 

oh?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/style/raphael-madonna-della-rosa-ai-scli-intl-scn/index.html

yeah, while CGC is busy ignoring this thread, someone is thinking about how they can grade more,faster using AI. MCS will probably get their first because they are innovation minded but the first grading company to figure this out will disrupt the market in a way that poses the single biggest threat to CGC's dominance, much more than this little embarrassing thread. It's not a question of IF AI will will do grading of collectibles, but when. 3D objects objects are not an issue. That's been fairly routine for a decade. The last guy at CGC that might still have a job in 10 years, ironically enough as it pertains to this thread, is the mook reholdering books.

[miraclemet]

This is the interesting example of the same seller scam. 
Youtube video presenting IH181 swap

Poster shows an IH181 8.5 qualified that sold, and then later shows up in a Universal 9.0 slab and is sold. 

I cant imagine that CGC would miss a missing MVS on a comic that they always check that for. And it means it's have to get past all gaders and QC. So It makes me think a seller has figured out how to crack and swap books in slabs.

Edited December 22, 2023 by miraclemet

[Steven Valdez]

Another YouTube video has just popped up on this subject:

 

[miraclemet]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:16 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

oh?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/style/raphael-madonna-della-rosa-ai-scli-intl-scn/index.html

yeah, while CGC is busy ignoring this thread, someone is thinking about how they can grade more,faster using AI. MCS will probably get their first because they are innovation minded but the first grading company to figure this out will disrupt the market in a way that poses the single biggest threat to CGC's dominance, much more than this little embarrassing thread. It's not a question of IF AI will will do grading of collectibles, but when. 3D objects objects are not an issue. That's been fairly routine for a decade. The last guy at CGC that might still have a job in 10 years, ironically enough as it pertains to this thread, is the mook reholdering books.

agreed. When people talk about how there's no way CGC will ever be knocked from their market dominant position, I always say whomever cracks the AI grading code will win, cause that will be the grader that can finally claim grade consistency (and no more joke about "well that must have been graded right after the grader's girlfriend broke up with him"

 

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:21 AM, miraclemet said:

"well that must have been graded right after the grader's girlfriend broke up with him"

 

I like that! As if comic book graders ever had girlfriends

[Iconic1s]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:29 AM, mephistopheles said:

Question: has anyone here ever submitted a slab for reholdering and received a grade drop? Guessing not unless it was an extreme case.

No, but I always worry about it!   Was trying to get all my books in new holders at one point but quit sending when QC got so bad!!  I have one 9.9 newsstand in particular that would look wonderful in a new holder, but it’s never leaving my sight after this!

Spoiler

 

[drotto]

 

On 12/22/2023 at 10:16 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

oh?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/style/raphael-madonna-della-rosa-ai-scli-intl-scn/index.html

yeah, while CGC is busy ignoring this thread, someone is thinking about how they can grade more,faster using AI. MCS will probably get their first because they are innovation minded but the first grading company to figure this out will disrupt the market in a way that poses the single biggest threat to CGC's dominance, much more than this little embarrassing thread. It's not a question of IF AI will will do grading of collectibles, but when. 3D objects objects are not an issue. That's been fairly routine for a decade. The last guy at CGC that might still have a job in 10 years, ironically enough as it pertains to this thread, is the mook reholdering books.

We have facial recognition, book "recognition" should in theory be no issue.  The only problem is how far back and how good are the scans that CGC has archived. Every book coming back to them could  in theory be checked by automatically. It would also be an interesting new twist for buyers to be able to confirm their own books. Hell CGC likes to make money on new revenue stream, make a photo book verification app.  Granted this would not have stopped some of this scam, since he has manage to get the "fake" books rescanned as the authentic one.  

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:22 AM, Steven Valdez said:

I like that! As if comic book graders ever had girlfriends

she ghosted him online after he sent her $500 in Walmart gift cards.

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:23 AM, drotto said:

 

We have facial recognition, book "recognition" should in theory be no issue. 

I'd be worried about those clawed robot arms tearing the heck out of my comics.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:23 AM, drotto said:

 

We have facial recognition, book "recognition" should in theory be no issue.  The only problem is how far back and how good are the scans that CGC has archived. Every book coming back to them could  in theory be checked by automatically. It would also be an interesting new twist for buyers to be able to confirm their own books. Hell CGC likes to make money on new revenue stream, make a photo book verification app.  Granted this would not have stopped some of this scam, since he has manage to get the "fake" books rescanned as the authentic one.  

Buddy already has book recognition in their internal systems. It's cool AF.

[paqart]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:19 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Another YouTube video has just popped up on this subject:

 

This guy lost me when he started suggesting that differences between the 252's could have come from jostling inside the case.

[mephistopheles]

On 12/22/2023 at 11:21 AM, miraclemet said:

agreed. When people talk about how there's no way CGC will ever be knocked from their market dominant position, I always say whomever cracks the AI grading code will win, cause that will be the grader that can finally claim grade consistency (and no more joke about "well that must have been graded right after the grader's girlfriend broke up with him"

 

It will be difficult to remove human graders altogether but AI could certainly compare high res scans of books to ensure they are the same book.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:26 AM, paqart said:

This guy lost me when he started suggesting that differences between the 252's could have come from jostling inside the case.

maybe CGC is responding with crisis management actors to combat the negative youtubers. 

[paqart]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:27 AM, mephistopheles said:

It will be difficult to remove human graders altogether but AI could certainly compare high res scans of books to ensure they are the same book.

That would be tough unless lighting is identical.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:28 AM, paqart said:

That would be tough unless lighting is identical.

you think AI is limited like human's to the visual spectrum? 

[sledgehammer]

For everybody, the Ewert thing took months and months to play out.

The initial reaction was complacency.

Kind of a Kevin Bacon in Animal House meme reaction.

Don't expect it all by today.

[comicginger1789]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:21 AM, miraclemet said:

agreed. When people talk about how there's no way CGC will ever be knocked from their market dominant position, I always say whomever cracks the AI grading code will win, cause that will be the grader that can finally claim grade consistency (and no more joke about "well that must have been graded right after the grader's girlfriend broke up with him"

 

The AI thing would be a game changer. I think the hardest part is opening the book. In THEORY CGC does this (to count pages). Now I am sure some sort of weight thing could be developed where every comic is weighed to fractions of ounces to determine if a page or multiple (or even chunks or a stamp) are missing inside, then prompting a person to waste time opening the book. But there are other things like foxing, staining, writing that you need someone to see and assess and factor in (because again CGC humans do this allll the time without question).

[Steven Valdez]

I mean, there's LiDAR that can uncover lost Mayan cities under dense rainforest, surely there must be some app for accurately grading comics by now.

[J Bill]

Does anyone know how long CGC has been putting those subtle diagonal 'CGC' watermarks in the white grade box on the label? Seems like a newer security change? Thinking it through, I'm not sure how this would help with detection, but between that and their new policy to provide scans, it feels like they've been aware something has been amiss and they've been trying to subtly respond.