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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,029 posts in this topic

AbsoluteCarnage

AbsoluteCarnage

Posted
Posted

Bottom back corner of this recently sold or ended ebay Mark Jewelers ASM CGC 9.8 301 sale? Seen some crappy 9.8s but this book is a nightmare to get CGC to 9.8. Take what you will and investigate. Not sure if it was just a hatchet grading job or something's up..............

 

Amazing Spider-Man Mark Jewelers #301MJ CGC 9.8 1988 3806823004 | eBay

 

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Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

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Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 7:54 AM, MAR1979 said:

I could definitively see the following books for example taking hits unless they are in a Gen 1 or Gen 2 slab:

ASM 238 All Newsstand versions
ASM 252 All Newsstand versions
ASM 300 All Newsstand versions
Hulk 181 Regular and Mark Jewelers
Hulk 340 All Newsstand versions
New Mutants 98 All Newsstand versions

Feel free to add to above list.

Sadly folks like me who have clean self-submitted books on the list would be hurt as well in event we go to sell.

CGC's parent company has less than zero care with aftermarket sales, unless it's book they can brag about on their Home page like Detective 27 or Amazing Fantasy 15.

It's important to remember this is a pump and dump by Blackstone. IF profits trend down below what ever their already determined threshold they will simply sell off CGC.

Add certain Canadian price variants to that potential list. Some 9.8’s go for big dollars. 

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paqart

paqart

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Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 12:11 AM, Prince Namor said:

That's also for sports memorabilia. Comic Books just do not get the same respect from those outside our hobby.

A couple examples:

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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

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Posted (edited)
On 12/25/2023 at 10:37 AM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

Bottom back corner of this recently sold or ended ebay Mark Jewelers ASM CGC 9.8 301 sale? Seen some crappy 9.8s but this book is a nightmare to get CGC to 9.8. Take what you will and investigate. Not sure if it was just a hatchet grading job or something's up..............

 

Amazing Spider-Man Mark Jewelers #301MJ CGC 9.8 1988 3806823004 | eBay

 

Supposedly graded as MJ insert on 5/20/21.  

GPA shows one MJ 9.8 sale ever, on 12/13/23.  $11,500

Someone tried to flip immediately on mycomicshop.

Recent 9.2 MJ sale on 2/10/23, and has sold before that on 8/24/22  cert #  4078530005

This cert # is now gone, so maybe pressing is also part of scamboy's game??

Scans would be really helpful to see if that was feasible.

Most recent 9.4 MJ sale on gpa, cert #  3748088002

Edited by sledgehammer
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AbsoluteCarnage

AbsoluteCarnage

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Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 11:46 AM, sledgehammer said:

Supposedly graded as MJ insert on 5/20/21.  

GPA shows one MJ 9.8 sale ever, on 12/13/23.

Someone tried to flip immediately on mycomicshop.

Recent 9.2 MJ sale on 2/10/23, and has sold before that on 8/24/22  cert #  4078530005

This cert # is now gone, so maybe pressing is also part of scamboy's game??

Scans would be really helpful to see if that was feasible.

Most recent 9.4 MJ sale on gpa, cert #  3748088002

Yeah I did some digging on other 301 books when I found that a couple days back but didn't find anything with the smashed corner

I may have missed one though.

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Christophe9999

Christophe9999

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Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 8:37 AM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

Bottom back corner of this recently sold or ended ebay Mark Jewelers ASM CGC 9.8 301 sale? Seen some crappy 9.8s but this book is a nightmare to get CGC to 9.8. Take what you will and investigate. Not sure if it was just a hatchet grading job or something's up..............

 

Amazing Spider-Man Mark Jewelers #301MJ CGC 9.8 1988 3806823004 | eBay

 

Multiple MJ 9.8s in that submission

5/20/21

3806823003 - ASM 294 9.8 Mark Jewelers
3806823004 - ASM 301 9.8 Mark jewelers
3806823005 - ASM 303 9.8 Mark jewelers
3806823007 - ASM 306 9.8 Mark jewelers
3806823010 - ASM 308 9.8 Mark Jewelers

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AbsoluteCarnage

AbsoluteCarnage

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Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 11:50 AM, Christophe9999 said:

Multiple MJ 9.8s in that submission

5/20/21

3806823003 - ASM 294 9.8 Mark Jewelers
3806823004 - ASM 301 9.8 Mark jewelers
3806823005 - ASM 303 9.8 Mark jewelers
3806823007 - ASM 306 9.8 Mark jewelers
3806823010 - ASM 308 9.8 Mark Jewelers

looks like they had quite the MJ haul

 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 4:14 PM, paqart said:

@Buzzetta: I just spoke with a good friend who is an expert on the insurance industry and who is familiar with the ways they deal with fraud. He said the most likely scenario is that eBay pays the buyer out of pocket, without making an insurance claim. They wouldn't let anyone else know what they did, and wouldn't look for more victims. They would only deal with buyers who came to them.

If the size of the fraud was large enough, they might use stop loss insurance, but the total value of this one individual's fraud is probably too low to do that. Even if it hit a million dollars, it would be easier to eat the cost.

About the only way he could see eBay doing anything else is if they wanted to make an example of the scammer. This, he said, is not impossible. If that is what they decided to do, they would throw everything into going after the scammer and CGC. The goal would be to scare everyone involved so badly that they "voluntarily" clean up their act.

If, in the unlikely event eBay did make an insurance claim, the insurance company would be in a position to go after CGC, and likely would. He said the insurance company "would absolutely go after CGC first" and ignore the scammer, because that is where they are more likely to get paid. Then, as I thought, CGC would have to go after the scammer.

In other words, my scenario only happens if eBay does something that my insurance agency friend thinks is highly unlikely: make a claim on the insurance.

This has nothing to do with the business relationship between CGC and eBay. Instead, it is based on the value of the items involved, fraud volume, and gross sales.

After saying all that, he thinks CGC is "screwed." Their reputation is their product, and their product is this slab, which has clearly been compromised. Worse, they have slabs for other high value collectibles, like coins and stamps. What happened with comics does spillover reputational damage that would impact their stock value if they are a public company.

Don't think they are screwed at all so long as enough people have money in the game. 

eBay is not going to go after CGC.  It is now revealed that one of the books might have passed through Comiclink.  Will Comiclink sue CGC as well?  On one end of the spectrum, comics makes up but a small fraction of revenue on their site, (eBay).  On the other end, CGC is associated with almost the total revenue on their site, (Comiclink).  

Neither will go after CGC. 

I will be extremely shocked if they do as it would not serve anyone's interests. 

 

At this point, on this subject, all I can other than what others have addressed, is "we will both have to wait and see."

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/25/2023 at 11:50 AM, migmtl76 said:

Brutal sale for this one.

Fallout from this whole mess, bad timing, Christmas listing not a good idea ?
image.thumb.png.9605d93f545a9b13e54c7b1b37df219b.pngimage.png.130aaa9e062988894e88bf3102ef5cb6.png

Seller has poor feed back and book at best is 9.4 - given that seems like they did rather well. IMHO who purchased it at $1175 needs to learn the hobby better.
image.png.3b8fde4ed615b6a89d7e2e4125826e16.png

Edited by MAR1979
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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 11:50 AM, migmtl76 said:

Brutal sale for this one.

Fallout from this whole mess, bad timing, Christmas listing not a good idea ?
image.thumb.png.9605d93f545a9b13e54c7b1b37df219b.pngimage.png.130aaa9e062988894e88bf3102ef5cb6.png

Could also be a market adjustment.  I know a guy that is not even into comics that has 50 copies of ASM 252 an 50 copies of Secret Wars 8 that have been in box since they were released.  They look to be easy 9.4-9.8's.  There are MANY copies out there of this book and ASM 300 btw... yet still people have treated them like some unicorn in the wild.  I own a 9.8 and I do not even think it should be commanding this much money. 

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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

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Posted (edited)
On 12/25/2023 at 10:52 AM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

As someone who primarily buys the best of the best 9.8s so they get signed and retain the 9.8 book I'd toss monkey poop at that ASM301 all day long and never even entertain the idea of it ever coming back 9.8 after being signed.

It's still not out of the realm of possibility that the same switch happened on an ACTUAL  9.8 MJ insert copy of the book.

If so, he would now have TWO of them.

So far, I haven't seen any sign of where the 12/13/23 sale occured. Not ebay or heritage. More manipulation BS??

Edited by sledgehammer
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