• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
50 50

Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
On 12/26/2023 at 4:17 AM, paqart said:

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigates criminal counterfeiting, piracy, and other federal crimes. You can report suspicions concerning the manufacture or sale of counterfeit or pirated goods to the FBI by contacting your local FBI Office, or or calling (202) 324-3000 and asking to speak with the Duty Complaint Agent. If you suspect products for sale on the Internet are counterfeit or pirated, you can report your suspicions to the FBI Internet Fraud Complaint Center.

We shall see. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WestcoastDAVEngers

WestcoastDAVEngers

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/25/2023 at 6:18 PM, sledgehammer said:

agreed. Maybe Dave is comfortable saying that much and it's totally understandable if he is not. 

Not really comfortable with putting any names out there. Because if the name I know is wrong or anything like that, I am putting myself in a situation that I don't want to be in. I can say, that according to multiple people who bought some of the books off IG, that name is known to a lot of the buyers as it is. 

Edited by WestcoastDAVEngers
Link to comment
Share on other sites
paqart

paqart

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 9:22 PM, Sam T said:

Yep, if the version that the youtube conspiracy theorists keep sharing is true then it's not reholdering that's broken, its the holders themselves.

 

I'm curious what you think of my theory that it might actually not be a CGC issue as much as a fake internet sales issue? We have no actual evidence that any of these transactions actually took place. The second an auction ends, it starts showing in "sold listings", before payment has been sent or processed. We have no reason to think any of the comics OR the buyers from these auctions actually exist.

Wrong. At the least, there are plenty of photos of the comics in their holders and the records in CGC's registry for the serial numbers. The comics, holders, and numbers exist. From this, we can (and have) determine that lower grade comics were removed from thheir slabs and fraudulently placed in higher grade slabs. We know that the labels were then changed. It makes more sense that these were sent to CGC for reholdering and a new label than printing a new label and reholdering it on one's own, because if that was the case, there wouldn't be any need for the original (and expensive) slab.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
On 12/26/2023 at 8:43 AM, bc said:

Because standardized meta data trends feed Large Language Models...but that belongs in another thread (thumbsu

Data is the new currency.

-bc

And 'hiding' data is the new liability protection. Don't put it out there and you can't be responsible for it.

I knew a shop owner who SWORE that as long as he didn't shovel the snow on his lot, no one could sue him if they slipped and fell. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Heronext

Heronext

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 10:13 PM, WestcoastDAVEngers said:

Not really comfortable with putting any names out there. Because if the name I know is wrong or anything like that, I am putting myself in a situation that I don't want to be in. I can say, that according to multiple people who bought some of the books off IG, that name is known to a lot of the buyers as it is. 

So that name could be BR or it might not be & you're not comfortable saying which.  That's fine

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
paqart

paqart

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 9:59 PM, Sam T said:

I'm actually pretty sure Occam would be on my side in this 🤣

 

What's simpler, a scam that involves sitting at your computer and generating fake data with fake accounts or a scam that involves the kind of trial and error, insider information and/or physical craftsmanship that would be required to come up with a method of swapping and resealing?

 

If a person generates an ebay account with fake information and fake/stolen payment information, they can simply rack up debt on an ebay account without it mattering. Also, I don't think I've been charged auction fees for auctions that buyers don't actually pay for. When an auction ends, it pops up in "sold listings" immediately. It does not require payment actually going through. The only version of this where the ebay scammer has to pay fees is the version where he's only willing to do one kind of scam. But the guy who does counterfeiting will also do identity theft. Internet crimes are easier and simpler than real world crimes. It's has to be easier to generate fake accounts on ebay than it is figure out the secrets to CGC's encapsulation process.

You can follow this logic-based argument all you want, but it doesn't fit the data, and that is where it fails.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

Posted
Posted (edited)

Brand spanking new CGC cases:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Leshiny-Acrylic-CGC-CBCS-PGX-Slab_1600663692391.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_image.64689fa5rgZ8rg

ScreenShot2023-12-26at2_52_24pm.png.f108ed09634ded47de234c77f9629152.png

 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Leshiny-factory-manufacturer-custom-wholesale-collectible_1600663562900.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.64689fa5rgZ

And this is just a couple of suppliers, there are many others. The genie has been out of the bottle for quite some time.

 

Edited by Steven Valdez
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mikey C

Mikey C

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

On 12/25/2023 at 10:26 PM, Steven Valdez said:

Brand spanking new CGC cases:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Leshiny-Acrylic-CGC-CBCS-PGX-Slab_1600663692391.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_image.64689fa5rgZ8rg

 

 

lol whoops. Just need access to a sonic welder and they’re in business. 

Edited by Mikey C
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lightning55

Lightning55

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 9:59 PM, Sam T said:

I'm actually pretty sure Occam would be on my side in this 🤣

 

What's simpler, a scam that involves sitting at your computer and generating fake data with fake accounts or a scam that involves the kind of trial and error, insider information and/or physical craftsmanship that would be required to come up with a method of swapping and resealing?

 

If a person generates an ebay account with fake information and fake/stolen payment information, they can simply rack up debt on an ebay account without it mattering. Also, I don't think I've been charged auction fees for auctions that buyers don't actually pay for. When an auction ends, it pops up in "sold listings" immediately. It does not require payment actually going through. The only version of this where the ebay scammer has to pay fees is the version where he's only willing to do one kind of scam. But the guy who does counterfeiting will also do identity theft. Internet crimes are easier and simpler than real world crimes. It's has to be easier to generate fake accounts on ebay than it is figure out the secrets to CGC's encapsulation process.

And what is the supposed motivation to create this fake data, or fake eBay activity. I don't see a way to monetize it. 

Is it to create fake market data, influence prices? Quite involved for that, to drive up values on books you are holding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sledgehammer

sledgehammer

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 9:13 PM, WestcoastDAVEngers said:
On 12/25/2023 at 8:18 PM, sledgehammer said:

agreed. Maybe Dave is comfortable saying that much and it's totally understandable if he is not. 

Not really comfortable with putting any names out there. Because if the name I know is wrong or anything like that, I am putting myself in a situation that I don't want to be in. I can say, that according to multiple people who bought some of the books off IG, that name is known to a lot of the buyers as it is. 

Thank you.

Just one more thing and I'll stop pestering you.

Do you think that this statement accurately reflects anything that you, manu or swaggle has ever said during a video?

"They clearly stated this was someone well known in that niche of the hobby (MJ / Newsstand variants)."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
skybolt

skybolt

Posted
Posted
On 12/25/2023 at 9:19 PM, paqart said:

Wrong. At the least, there are plenty of photos of the comics in their holders and the records in CGC's registry for the serial numbers. The comics, holders, and numbers exist. From this, we can (and have) determine that lower grade comics were removed from thheir slabs and fraudulently placed in higher grade slabs. We know that the labels were then changed. It makes more sense that these were sent to CGC for reholdering and a new label than printing a new label and reholdering it on one's own, because if that was the case, there wouldn't be any need for the original (and expensive) slab.

Not to mention that CGC's own data base shows all these discrepancies. If it was someone sitting at home changing labels to scam buyers on Ebay, how does this info show up in CGC's registry?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
50 50
Go to topic listing