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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

MAR1979

MAR1979

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Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 11:33 AM, pdags said:

I get it.  Maybe on Christmas Eve there wasn't quite enough evidence to show how bad things were...  But I've worked big jobs.  If you're above a certain title and making above a certain salary you work when needed; even if it's Christmas (Which I've done).

 

Same here; CVE-2021-44228 (log4j vulnerability) was not a great way to end an already bad 2021!

Edited by MAR1979
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MyNameIsLegion

MyNameIsLegion

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On 12/27/2023 at 10:33 AM, pdags said:

I get it.  Maybe off Christmas Eve there wasn't quite enough evidence to show how bad things were...  But I've worked big jobs.  If you're above a certain title and making above a certain salary you work when needed; even if it's Christmas (Which I've done).

 

yeah but what's Matt going to do about it right now? in practical terms they probably have contracts with their supplier in China to produce tens of thousands of holders this next year or longer, they have thousands in the supply chain and in their warehouse now. they aren't going to eat those. They can't R&D a new holder overnight. They're in the middle of their first fiscal quarter, or about to start their first quarter and everything in the budget is set. they might consider a new holder design when they plan next years budget in the summer. 

Most likely response- a few weeks of internal data collection, solutioning some process improvements to prevent the known scam, and more scrutiny of any reholder of certain accounts, new accounts, or spot checks of every 100 or whatever. A vague statement about the issue, with zero specifics and no public disclosure of known books from this seller, and an offer to recertify on request select books if and only if they come up for sale or through an auction house. Something that compartmentalizes each slab and each owner to be handled on a case by case basis "to protect the privacy of owners" and contain the contagion of any public narrative. "Doing the right thing" means something very different to a business that is a footnote in a trillion dollar VC portfolio than it does the man on the street. 

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namisgr

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One thing the company plainly should do, which they did with all Jason Ewert submissions, is accept back any and every slabbed book submitted by the perpetrator, and re-grade them free of charge.  I can't see any measure less than that being satisfactory.

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MAR1979

MAR1979

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:49 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

yeah but what's Matt going to do about it right now?

If he's smart he's calling MCS or Heritage to see if they have any openings. Hollering "Feet don't fail me now" as he disappears with a puff of smoke.

Edited by MAR1979
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pdags

pdags

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:49 AM, MAR1979 said:

Same here; CVE-2021-44228 (log4j vulnerability) was not a great way to end an already bad 2021!

Funny...  Because I worked in IT and was in charge of handling our companies response to that.  But this is off topic.  ;-)

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MyNameIsLegion

MyNameIsLegion

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On 12/27/2023 at 10:52 AM, MAR1979 said:

If he's smart he calling to MCS to see if they have any openings.

MCS, which already doens't think much of CGC grades now might reconsider accepting slabs as-is in certain circumstances. Maybe Borock can come full circle back to CGC since he's back in Gatorland. That means Matt has to ho to HA first, then Clink, then MCS. :kidaround:

Edited by MyNameIsLegion
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MAR1979

MAR1979

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:52 AM, namisgr said:

One thing the company plainly should do, which they did with all Jason Ewert submissions, is accept back any and every slabbed book submitted by the perpetrator, and re-grade them free of charge.  I can't see any measure less than that being satisfactory.

So folks will send back their 9.8 labels to get 6.5 Green Labels.  Given the morals and ethics of most Comic Book Dealers, Sellers, Speculators, Flippers I don't foresee that occurring in anything but the tiniest numbers unless there is full FMV remuneration involved. Ain't gonna happen as Blackstone will not pay out a cent.

Edited by MAR1979
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Mikey C

Mikey C

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:57 AM, Steven Valdez said:

The headline from hell:

CGC cases are easily tampered with, compromising comics worth as much as tens of thousands of dollars each.

How about:

CGC holders your $500,000 Amazing Fantasy #15 in the same tamper-proof case as they do Stray Dogs #1. 

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pdags

pdags

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:49 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

yeah but what's Matt going to do about it right now?

That's the whole point.  If Matt's doing anything, it could be made known.  You don't need a final solution today, you just need transparency on what's happening today or this week to (hopefully) maintain trust.

 It's the new(er) business model, share what you're working on.  Waterfall vs. Sprints.  Etc.

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skybolt

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On 12/27/2023 at 10:52 AM, wombat said:

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they came out and said they investigated and found nothing wrong. 

I think they'll likely say that the reholdering department should've used existing protocol to regrade books that came in with damaged corners (implying the CGC case cannot be opened without smashing the seals first). This staff is currently going through additional training to ensure something similar doesn't happen again. If the current owners of the books want to send them back for a check, CGC will perform this service for free and reimburse the customer the FMV of the book if it turns out there's missing MVS's or something similar. 

My gut tells me they will not touch the grade part of it with a 10 foot pole. If for example, the current owner sends a book back that was obviously switched, CGC will be lenient with their grading and say "yeah, we feel this book is still a 9.8, so you're good (even if it was previously graded as a 9.4). 

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Mdesimone

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:52 AM, namisgr said:

One thing the company plainly should do, which they did with all Jason Ewert submissions, is accept back any and every slabbed book submitted by the perpetrator, and re-grade them free of charge.  I can't see any measure less than that being satisfactory.

Why would anyone do that ?  if you paid 8000 dollars for a book that could be compromised  and have no way of getting a refund from the perpetrator , your better of leaving it as is. Cgc needs to pay FMV for all scammed books if the grades do not match.

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MyNameIsLegion

MyNameIsLegion

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:01 AM, pdags said:

That's the whole point.  If Matt's doing anything, it could be made known.  You don't need a final solution today, you just need transparency on what's happening today or this week to (hopefully) maintain trust.

 It's the new(er) business model, share what you're working on.  Waterfall vs. Sprints.  Etc.

:gossip:we're not the stakeholders, we are customers. 

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MAR1979

MAR1979

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:25 AM, pdags said:

Their whole business model was at stake and there was zero urgency on this.  

All of our CGC comic collections are at risk.  Everyone, at this point, deserves to know the state of the union so they can make the best financial and collecting decisions for themselves.  If CGC knew how trivial this is and hid it from the community, that's even more damning.  People can disagree with me as it's an opinion, but I believe it's what's best for the hobby now.

I mean, did CGC even test/try to crack the cases stealthily?  Did the hire an external company to test?  Were any of them competent?  It's trivial and I'm mad I didn't try/test it myself.

They could have performed damage control/containment they did not all in the interest of saving a few $'s. The situation is fluid and may very well sublimate to the point its picked up by mainstream news outlets with sensational headlines as Steven Valdez mentioned a few posts above. When that happens their inaction due to miser level stinginess may cost them dearly.

Edited by MAR1979
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