ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[CJ Design]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:42 AM, Stefan_W said:

Can't wait for people starting threads about how CGC is tracking all of their movements. 

 

[Mr. Zipper]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:12 PM, Buzzetta said:

They have though.  Sports market continues to grow.

Sports card holder tampering is a bit tougher to do by the way since to get in there you actually have to destroy the card slab. Cards are obviously smaller so there is not a lot of surface space to work with, without risking damage to the card.   Only way I know to get a card out of a PSA slab is to physically break through it which immediately shatters the whole thing in chunks.   

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+break+open+a+psa+card

No one should use the card market as an exemplar of confidence, safety and lack of fraud. Sheesh... there are counterfeit Chinese PSA slabs on the market with counterfeit cards... trimmed and doctored cards are rampant... it goes on and on and makes this issue look like small potatoes in comparison. 

[thescrod]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:14 PM, BrashL said:

It's all over YouTube and the socials, I think it's probably a majority at this point.

i dont know... i just 'stumbled' over this ...while logging in my 'slabs' yesterday 

hopefully.. 'bad' news travels fast and all ... wonder certain panels at comic cons will bring the matter up 

thscrod

 

CG and CGC Comics Statement on Holder Tampering Incident

The Certified Collectibles Group (CCG), which includes Certified Guaranty Company (CGC), is aware of an incident involving an individual tampering with CGC Comics holders. Based on our initial review, we believe that the incident affects a few hundred comic books.

CCG exists to protect the collecting community, and in the last 36 years we have certified more than 85 million collectibles, each one backed by a comprehensive guarantee. The trust that we have built with our community sometimes makes us a target of bad actors and, despite our vigilance, this individual tampered with some of our holders.

If you purchased one of the books that this individual tampered with, we will ensure that you are appropriately compensated for losses arising from any failures in our services. We expect to share a list of books that we believe are impacted as soon as possible.  

[sd2416]

Maybe he is using something like this to open the cases
 

 

[jsilverjanet]

why is the word "expect" in bold

[Iconic1s]

I honestly didn’t take the part of the statement regarding processes as them adding anything “new” to any processes.

Knowing what we know about QC (there has been next to none… this isn’t speculation either).

IMO, the line “we have already made significant improvement to our processes” should have read…

”We’re gonna start doing the things again that we were supposed to have been doing all along, but which we neglected to do to decrease TAT’s so we could increase our profit margins.”

Does anyone actually think they revolutionized any new process to prevent this since this came to light last week?  I don’t.

I also agree with whoever said they are attempting to downplay the scope of damage.  I mean c’mon, wouldn’t anyone in the same situation want to downplay this as much as possible!?  There is zero financial incentive for them to be absolutely transparent, or to tell us anything that isn’t already proven.  Shoot, who ever tells their wife how many beers they really had!

Other than that, the statement checked all the blocks.  There was no reason it shouldn’t have!  Lawyers had a week to go over it for goodness sakes!

Lastly, I will say that I have ABSOLUTELY LOVED CGC, which is why I’ve followed this thread so closely!  I have loved hunting down books and the experience of submitting books myself as well as buying slabs.  I like occasionally going through my collection of slabs and reminiscing about when I got that book, and what it means to me (check out my Death of Superman set ).  It was just that much better because I had many books slabbed by nothing but the most trusted company there is… that meant they were legit!!  The hunt for the 9.8’s I needed has been a rewarding experience and I’ve met good people in the process… I don’t sell but have been known to give away a book or two to someone that I know will appreciate it.  While I haven’t always agreed with all of the grades I got back, I continued to submit and ask for CGC’s seal of approval.

Scammers are gonna scam and we counted on CGC to protect us, and all of our varied perspectives of our collecting experience, with their “guarantee” and they simply did not.

I don’t even collect the known targets of this scam, but man I look at all my slabs quite differently today than I did a week ago.

The statement was a step in the right direction but it’s just cleverly crafted words right now.  I hope as time passes that they take the actions promised to restore true faith back into their brand.

[Buzzetta]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:23 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

No one should use the card market as an exemplar of confidence, safety and lack of fraud. Sheesh... there are counterfeit Chinese PSA slabs on the market with counterfeit cards... trimmed and doctored cards are rampant... it goes on and on and makes this issue look like small potatoes in comparison. 

Is the Jordan rookie still the most counterfeited card?  I remember being incredibly nervous when I had mine graded. 

[jsilverjanet]

great CGC is on the case now

everyone back to what they were doing

 

[LOC Collectibles]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:49 AM, captainzombie said:

Lets hope that this scammer is someone from here in the United States, and not someone overseas, because it will probably take quite sometime to find who the actual person is. I know there has been several names tossed around from what I have seen in this thread, but it could be 1 person vs. a ring of people. Ugh. This really does suck. If they did this to CGC, they could have done it to the other company too if they have gotten this good at it.

I think this shows the true issue in all of this. You won't find a scandal like this with the other company for one reason.. it's impossible to open that case without damaging it. I've tried dozens of methods and it doesn't work. CGC on the other hand you can open with your fingers. It's a design flaw that has needed to be addressed for a long time and hopefully this situation will do that. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:25 PM, jsilverjanet said:

why is the word "expect" in bold

[Mr. Zipper]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:25 PM, Buzzetta said:

Is the Jordan rookie still the most counterfeited card?  I remember being incredibly nervous when I had mine graded. 

Jordan is probably near or at the top. I am not a card collector, but I watch the market. They are even faking the high tech refractor cards, uniform swatch cards, etc etc. and the fakes are so good they are getting past PSA on occasion.

[jeffreyk]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:03 AM, BrashL said:

Good to see them finally respond, and not surprised as Mike's statement was definitely run by some lawyers before he posted. Liability has to be a huge concern right now. As others have stated, a few hundred books may be related to one individual but realistically the number probably can never be known due to the ease at which the slabs can be opened and switched out. I think we have to assume the worst. 

The changes to the case people have suggested are all good and something must be changed, but that still leaves the issue of all the books in older cases which would rightly be devalued against the new ones. I think a reasonable compromise is CGC should offer discounted reholdering for any slab with checks for tampering either in the case itself or in the chain of custody. If issues are found they can compensate the difference (in cash, not CGC bucks!) and if not the book will now have the correct market value. Slowly you'd clean up the supply and do right by customers. It's probably gonna cost them but there's no way around that at this point.

That would stink for some of us who have several hundred slabs and not be affordable to many.

[Buzzetta]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:25 PM, jsilverjanet said:

why is the word "expect" in bold

 

On 12/28/2023 at 12:31 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

When I saw that, I thought it was most likely cut and pasted from a prepared statement with a link to the list that is being put together.  Then the word was changed to "expect" without reformatting the hyperlink to match the regular text.   The link did not transfer over but the formatting did.  The list is forthcoming once it is more complete.

At least that is my assumption. 

[Mr. Zipper]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:25 PM, jsilverjanet said:

why is the word "expect" in bold

It was a copy and paste from a lawyer's redline and they didn't match the font color. Probably said "will" before.

[greggy]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:31 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

When will you leave again? 

[EastEnd1]

Has anyone had newly graded books shipped back to them in the last week or so?  I have a UV submission received 12/21 that doesn't seem to be moving.  Just wondering if they've put a hold on sending books back out for the time being. 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:32 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

Jordan is probably near or at the top. I am not a card collector, but I watch the market. They are even faking the high tech refractor cards, uniform swatch cards, etc etc. and the fakes are so good they are getting past PSA on occasion.

Past Beckett and CGC as well. 

There was a guy that submitted a fake error card through CGC and then, according to his account, after they graded it he notified them and they banned him from future submissions.   I don't think he is telling the full story other than that CGC graded fake error cards and is now no longer grading those error cards. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:34 PM, greggy said:

When will you leave again? 

I’m pretty much over it. 
 

Just waiting for this to play out….

[paqart]

I think the CGC response is appropriate. That said, it just occurred to me that CGC's liability for damages only goes as far as the buyer's cost. Meaning, they won't be compensated for the lost opportunity of a resale for a higher price. There may not be a way to do that. However, if I was a comic book investor, and all the comics targeted by the fraudster are "investment" comics, I wouldn't be interested in buying the comic and tying up my money if I knew I would only get the same amount back. That is a loss also, though one that cannot be precisely calculated, so buyers are likely out of luck on that point.

[wiparker824]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:34 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Has anyone had newly graded books shipped back to them in the last week or so?  I have a UV submission received 12/21 that doesn't seem to be moving.  Just wondering if they've put a hold on sending books back out for the time being. 

They’ve been out of office for holiday. I believe 22nd and 25th.