ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[comicjel]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:44 PM, BlancoBros said:

My guess is after the comic boom, the book dropped off so much, there wasn't enough profit to continue.   
At it's height it was $5000. It quickly went down by 50% Number of sales tapered off as well.

I think you are right, looks like the profit dropped too much on those, and they could not exploit the newsstand version as much with that book.

[Lightning55]

On 1/8/2024 at 7:20 PM, comicwiz said:

@CGC Mike I have noticed strikethroughs on certain books appearing on the "impacted" list. But I have just noticed a cert number that wasn't on it from the time I first downloaded it.

Would it be possible whenever these updates are made to the list, that the person tag somewhere, either at the original date, or somewhere at the top of the list, when these updates occur? :Like an Last updated Jan 8th

The certification number I'm referring to is: 3813909-003. I am unsure if there have been others added as well. I'm just one of many I'm sure that would like to be able to track these updates so we know the latest additions as well as removals from the list. 

Thanks!

I second this motion emphatically.

New numbers being inserted randomly is a tracking nightmare. Even appending them is problematic, if no one knows there was a change to "The List". Someone here would have to be in charge of updating it in real time to keep it straight. 

Otherwise, over time "The List" becomes "Sorta The List".

Additional cert numbers need their own mini-announcement. In groups, maybe.

Or a separate thread started with the original list, and then posts from CGC as each number emerges and becomes part of the new list.

[grendel013]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:51 PM, Crimsonira said:

Yeah I really don’t have a clue, the book looks great… I never sent it in, and I don’t have any of the others.  I will keep the board posted.

I wouldn't send that to CGC without a conversation first.

[comicwiz]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:25 PM, Lightning55 said:

I second this motion emphatically.

New numbers being inserted randomly is a tracking nightmare. Even appending them is problematic, if no one knows there was a change to "The List". Someone here would have to be in charge of updating it in real time to keep it straight. 

Otherwise, over time "The List" becomes "Sorta The List".

Additional cert numbers need their own mini-announcement. In groups, maybe.

Or a separate thread started with the original list, and then posts from CGC as each number emerges and becomes part of the new list.

We're on the same page here. Let's see what @CGC Mike hears from the team, and thank-you Mike!

The strikethroughs, while still requiring you to scan the entire list, are easier to track because they stand out. When it's a record that's added, you need to go through the entire list. Maybe a different colour background on new additions from the list. There are collectors/dealers who will be blindsided by this, when a book that gets listed is now on the list when it wasn't before. 

[J Bill]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:30 PM, comicwiz said:

The strikethroughs, while still requiring you to scan the entire list, are easier to track because they stand out. When it's a record that's added, you need to go through the entire list. Maybe a different colour background on new additions from the list. There are collectors/dealers who will be blindsided by this, when a book that gets listed is now on the list when it wasn't before. 

Another silver lining might be that any of us who have been resistant to learning Excel imports, conditional formatting and pivot tables for work finally have the motivation they needed to learn. Btw, thanks again for all the hard work you're putting in @comicwiz!

[Crimsonira]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:15 PM, sledgehammer said:

someone already mentioned today, that you had said that you purchased it from the comic store in Brooklyn. I can tell you that it appears to me, that it was visible in a photo behind the owner of a store at a convention in 2019. It appears that it is in the same Stan Lee, custom label, and it also appears at a distance, as tho stan's signature is in the same place on the front cover along with Ayres. I don't know that I would be comfortable, when I was not the one that submitted the book, to send it to CGC to be reviewed, without them, explaining to me, exactly what it is that they need to look for. Good luck, this Situation feels like it would be ulcer inducing to me.

Yeah, I hear where you coming from, but I have nothing to hide.  And let’s be honest anything on this list is unsellable until it’s been verified…. Just for clarification I don’t know if the person I bought it from was aware of anything, I just keep records for taxes.

[sledgehammer]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:51 PM, Crimsonira said:

Yeah, I hear where you coming from, but I have nothing to hide.  And let’s be honest anything on this list is unsellable until it’s been verified…. Just for clarification I don’t know if the person I bought it from was aware of anything, I just keep records for taxes.

every indication is, so far, that this is not the type of book that he targeted. Just FYI, there is also evidence that the amazing fantasy 15 yellow label, that is also on the list, is also evident in those same photos from 2019.

Good luck, sincerely!

[comicwiz]

@CGC Mike my bad, that cert number turned out to be on the list. It seems the hyphenated format on the impacted list threw my search attempts off because I migrated my list to mimic the way the verify search function works. So just wanted to set the record straight on that, however if you could still request some method of adding an "last updated list on specified date", I'd appreciate it!

Many thanks!

Edited January 9 by comicwiz

[mrd160]

😩

Edited January 9 by mrd160

[mrd160]

That JOM 85 is a tough one….my heart goes out to that dude

Edited January 9 by mrd160

[wiparker824]

Can anyone tell me why these 2 on the list:

3743694005

3743694008

and these 2 from the same sub have the status of “Rejected”:

3743694007

3743694006

Are these rejected reholder attempts? 

[Pcaedus]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:56 PM, Buzzetta said:

Yes the shop is in Brooklyn.  I just found out what shop.  I can walk on over there if I wanted at some point this week.    I don't know if they would knowingly pass switched books through their store so I am hoping if books DID go through their door that the store owners were duped. 

I was originally worried that it was Royal Collectables on Metropolitan Avenue in Forest Hills as they are a store that would carry higher end books and are located close enough to Brooklyn that many of my Brooklyn comic collector friends shop there.   Glad to see that they have nothing to do with anything involved in this. 

What store was it? There's only a handful in Brooklyn then again I really only go to Galaxy Comics and St. Marks Comics and I know both wouldn't have any expensive books in general. 

[Silver Surfer]

On 1/8/2024 at 12:05 PM, topcat54 said:

Here's an AMAZING SPIDERMAN 194 on the list seller is in BROOKLYN NY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204582913705?hash=item2fa21786a9:g:bFAAAOSwDNVlfeNL&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8Iwe6b3Xzy06UV2zKvk%2FnKdf7eIhpJJp1IPygWpxnw03z28pvYSPjo75atracR2kLn735npvFfaQb71OpDVL5jsHA1ux9QQAt7h6%2FFp2sVGAyOjCdRILA6GyfRhUcxw9CZW2hM%2Fkc1mnDi3HOUKOpMSOvcdjOAkmHFccXJob747g59RAvz%2Bhfc%2Ba63bLy26PwS9z91pv44Tan4bx%2FYpvahEezjEz6lNgxZ6R0uOMP8na36ltnkYPBCP6HXMSlIPggfz%2BWreoVx9wafjxZ0PHonEanf5OwqHowWqGjKrKFPnpiLNg9wvDtzwPnjS2Uo%2FUAg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4ie06qdYw

Listing ended. 

[ScottStevens]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I am so confused as to what the next step is. Do I submit this stack of books I have here uncleaned, unpressed, and unrestored? Is the entire community in wait-and-see mode? Am I the only one terrified that the slabs I bought on the open market are now imperiled by this debacle? I fell that CGC is doing the right thing but I am just not sure how to move forward. Do I send every slab in to be reholdered and verified? So many questions...

[sledgehammer]

ONCE AGAIN.

Every book that this guy has touched should have the cert # EXPOSED.

On 12/18, Mikey C noted that a 9.8 ASM 252 copy that zaneglor sold, looked exactly like the real 9.8 that was part of the swap that started all this.

That cert # https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4324007003/

That comic book is not on the list. Neither is  001, 002, 004, or 007.

The only two on the list, are THE ONES with a custom label, 005 and 006 AND THE GRADE DATE IS NOT DIFFERENT.

All of the other books are 9.8, and not custom labels, of the EXACT keys that he scams.

That means, he may have these slabs, and can try to insert sleeves in to them again, through some private listing consigner, without the additional benefit that the custom holder swapping was giving him.

A list of every one of his submissions, needs to be posted somewhere.

Edited January 9 by sledgehammer

[wiparker824]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:55 PM, sledgehammer said:

every indication is, so far, that this is not the type of book that he targeted. Just FYI, there is also evidence that the amazing fantasy 15 yellow label, that is also on the list, is also evident in those same photos from 2019.

Good luck, sincerely!

Yes, I have direct evidence the same shop ID’d that sold the JIM 85 SS to @Crimsonira also had that AF 15 6.5 SS in their possession before the reholder/custom label, and also had a AF 15 2.5 SS, and AF 15 4.5 SS - these 3 being from a single submission. Also agree that these books may not necessarily have been tampered with. They also have other big SS books not on this list in the same style of having Stan Lee sign on the back cover as the AF 15. 

[sledgehammer]

I just found proof that he had an AF 15, 4.5 yellow, in the same submission as the 6.5 yellow. 2020.

Here is the submission number 1589872001. this is the 4.5.

No custom label, even though it was the same time as the custom label copy.

All books that he touched.

[wiparker824]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:10 AM, sledgehammer said:

I just found proof that he had an AF 15, 4.5 yellow, in the same submission as the 6.5 yellow. 2020.

Here is the submission number 1589872001. this is the 4.5.

No custom label, even though it was the same time as the custom label copy.

All books that he touched.

Keep going, 003 is the 2.5

[wiparker824]

[wiparker824]

although the 002 book now has a new graded date of 1/5/24. Indicating they graded this after they put it on this list?