CGC Files Lawsuit Against Employees 30 30

[Gonzimodo]

Okay, my reading comprehension skills are apparently nonexistent today.  

They're stealing people's books.  I get that part.  Then what?

Were they duplicating labels, so there could be two books out there with the same certification number, or were they waiting for a book to be graded, then stealing it, putting a lower graded book into that case, and taking the higher graded one?

All of this?  None of this?  I'm probably overcomplicating this in my head...

[bluehorseshoe]

You show me one person that can demonstrate damages as a result of buying a fake-slabbed book for more than a buck, and I'll show you a bunch of complex litigation attorneys putting together a class action Petition against CGC chock full of claims related to implied warranty and lack of good faith performance causes of action.

CGC is going to get the brakes sued off of them. 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

To date, Mr. Terrazas has admitted to stealing twenty-three customer-submitted comic books from CGC’s facilities. Id. ¶ 12. As part of his scheme, Mr. Terrazas would take these customer-submitted comic books from a shelf at CGC’s facilities, place them on his desk, and discard the books’ CGC-graded wrapping and barcodes. Id. Mr. Terrazas would then submit for grading each of the stolen comic books and then publicly advertise, consign, or sell the comic books on eBay or at trade shows. Id. In total, Mr. Terrazas received at least $26,895 in aggregate revenue from these fraudulent transactions

[Gonzimodo]

With access to official CGC equipment, labels, etc., who knows how much damage a dishonest employee could actually do?

Back in high school, there was a kid whose mom worked at the state license bureau, and he had a sweet gig creating fake IDs for people.  He'd steal the keys to the place and make "real" fake IDs on the official State equipment.  No idea how he never went to jail for that...

[NWOslave]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:37 PM, ExNihilo said:

"an issue"?  Like singular?  Have you not been paying attention the last few years?  The way the thread below has blown up in the last few years was enough to put into question CGC's quality.

  Then there was acetategate and the complete fumbling of how that was handled.

And of course the most recent one being the issue with the slabs.  I'm sure I'm missing some in between, but the last 3 years has been disastrous as far as degrading trust in the product/brand.  This current incident isn't anything new, it's just the latest in a string of issues.

dont forgot about the "invisible" bad idea comics. 

[I like pie]

This is all a distraction so that we accept Newton Rings.

[bluehorseshoe]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:22 PM, atomised said:

Interesting to see how quick some members are to throw stones at CGC the minute there's an issue that surfaces

Interesting to see how quick some members give CGC a pass over and over and over again, instead of letting the members know that this was going on months ago.  CGC didnt discover this horrific act on Monday and file the lawsuit on Tuesday bro. 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:44 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

To date, Mr. Terrazas has admitted to stealing twenty-three customer-submitted comic books from CGC’s facilities. Id. ¶ 12. As part of his scheme, Mr. Terrazas would take these customer-submitted comic books from a shelf at CGC’s facilities, place them on his desk, and discard the books’ CGC-graded wrapping and barcodes. Id. Mr. Terrazas would then submit for grading each of the stolen comic books and then publicly advertise, consign, or sell the comic books on eBay or at trade shows. Id. In total, Mr. Terrazas received at least $26,895 in aggregate revenue from these fraudulent transactions

With respect to seven of the twenty-three stolen comic books, unsatisfied with the grade received, Mr. Terrazas “swapped” their CGC-branded labels with higher-graded labels, thereby misrepresenting lower-grade collectible products as higher-grade collectible products. Id. Specifically, Mr. Terrazas admitted to consigning five comic books encapsulated with CGC grade labels to ComicLink under his wife’s name, Ayana Terrazas, four of which were stolen and swapped. Id. ¶ ¶ 11, 13. These consigned comic books included Amazing Spiderman #129, Amazing Spiderman #16, Incredible Hulk #181, Batman #251, and Silver Surfer #1. Id. ¶ 11. In particular, in an October 2023 email to an outside investigator engaged by CCG, Mr. Terrazas provided images of four of the comic books he had stolen and swapped that remained in his possession, included below: 3 As of the present date, it appears that “terrazas-the-collector” is no longer active on eBay. Id. ¶¶ 10, 17. Case 8:24-cv-00301-KKM-AAS Document 4 Filed 01/31/24 Page 9 of 23 PageID 54 9 Id. ¶ 12. Even aside from his practice of willful certificate swapping, Mr. Terrazas otherwise violated the CGC rules, which exist ultimately to protect the public and CGC’s brand as a trusted source. Id. ¶ 1

[shadroch]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:36 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I think there are definitely imitators - but not on $100-$200 books. The hassle factor would be pointless even to the dumbest of scammers:

Buy $100 9.2

Replace it with a $80 9.0

Re-sub removed 9.2 for $35+shipping

Sell new 9.2 for $100

Not enough in there to bother with the risk, I don’t think.

Substitute the book with an 8.5 raw you bought for $10, and the equation changes. Since everyone knows no one would do this on $100 books, you could get away with it all day with just a heat gun.  I'm curious about what can happen to the seller who sells a swapped-out book.  Where does the crime occur? Is it in swapping the book?  Is it in owning a book that was swapped? Is it selling a swapped book?

I understand and respect the morality of the situation, and it is certainly unethical, but I don't understand the legality of it.

[LDarkseid1]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:46 PM, bluehorseshoe said:

Interesting to see how quick some members give CGC a pass over and over and over again, instead of letting the members know that this was going on months ago.  CGC didnt discover this horrific act on Monday and file the lawsuit on Tuesday bro. 

Ehhh, I feel like companies usually take their time with stuff like this. It only becomes public when someone leaks it, or the company officially decides to make it public. Clearly the Terrazas no longer worked their for a while now and couldn't perpetrate this anymore, so no reason to think their was potential future harm or a reason to make it public at least for that reason. I don't have a problem with knowing until the lawsuit became public.

[Heronext]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:48 PM, habsfan1 said:

They both began working in 2022

 

Anyone have thoughts about how a CGC employee's duties could include receiving and verifying items from eBay?  Does CGC deal on (what in the financial world would be called) a proprietary account?

Edited February 1 by Heronext

[dbcn]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:52 PM, Heronext said:

Does anyone have thoughts about how a CGC employees duties could be receiving and verifying items from eBay?

Yeah I feel like this is why CGC should do a press release to clarify what was happening - it may not be as widespread an issue if the perpetrators were pulling ebay items and not submissions 

[ExNihilo]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:52 PM, Heronext said:

Anyone have thoughts about how a CGC employee's duties could include receiving and verifying items from eBay?  Does CGC deal on (what in the financial world would be called) a proprietary account?

Yeah, I was confused by this bit as well.  Why does CGC have a person specifically for handling eBay packages?

[BeardedBubba]

The most disturbing part to me is the fact that he could just walk over to a shelf and steal a customers book??  And nobody saw it?  I don't know what I expected but I always assumed the facility was a little more secure than that.  

[jimjum12]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:05 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

I honestly feel bad CGC is going through this. Tons of great people work there, and pour their heart and soul into the company. It's truly unfortunate, but not a surprise such shady people exist to commit crimes like this. I hope the Terrazas are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and get what's coming to them! They should be blacklisted from everything revolving around collectibles. It doesn't sound like it was a lot of books, I think I saw 23 reported in a youtube video from Swagglehaus. That would make sense I guess, because if you were this grader doing it from the inside over a couple years, doing it too many times would raise even more red flags if you think about it.

This is definitely a challenging time for CGC, but I still think they provide a great service and I plan to still use them and buy graded books as usual. If anything, I think people just need to be more vigilant now a days and look out for each other.

CGC has had tremendous growth in the last few years, and that never happens without some growing pains. I've been hanging around here for 20 years because I like the people and their care for the hobby. I've watched a lot of them start out lurking and end up as key people at the company. It hurts to see them catch a black eye like this. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[bc]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:54 PM, ExNihilo said:

Yeah, I was confused by this bit as well.  Why does CGC have a person specifically for handling eBay packages?

From the other thread:

-bc

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 2/1/2024 at 4:54 PM, ExNihilo said:

On 2/1/2024 at 4:52 PM, Heronext said:

Anyone have thoughts about how a CGC employee's duties could include receiving and verifying items from eBay?  Does CGC deal on (what in the financial world would be called) a proprietary account?

Yeah, I was confused by this bit as well.  Why does CGC have a person specifically for handling eBay packages?

My memory is muddy about this, but I recall that years ago CGC hired someone who would, for a price, verify that a CGC book on eBay was legit.

[LDarkseid1]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:58 PM, jimjum12 said:

CGC has had tremendous growth in the last few years, and that never happens without some growing pains. I've been hanging around here for 20 years because I like the people and their care for the hobby. I've watched a lot of them start out lurking and end up as key people at the company. It hurts to see them catch a black eye like this. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Thanks Jimbo, a few people laughed at me for saying that lol, but I meant it.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 2/1/2024 at 5:00 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

On 2/1/2024 at 4:54 PM, ExNihilo said:

On 2/1/2024 at 4:52 PM, Heronext said:

Anyone have thoughts about how a CGC employee's duties could include receiving and verifying items from eBay?  Does CGC deal on (what in the financial world would be called) a proprietary account?

Yeah, I was confused by this bit as well.  Why does CGC have a person specifically for handling eBay packages?

My memory is muddy about this, but I recall that years ago CGC hired someone who would, for a price, verify that a CGC book on eBay was legit.

My memory is muddy! 

[dbcn]

Doesn't look like eBay either knows about the case - the seller still has listings up (seems like they would suspend the account if they were told there might be fraudulent items)

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fss=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=omni_collector&LH_SpecificSeller=1

the books and grades are all over the place.