Ed Piskor Has Passed 5 5

[sfcityduck]

On 4/2/2024 at 8:35 AM, BrashL said:

This is an extraordinarily bad take. Substitute Ed  for a 32 year old Trans person who was being relentlessly mocked and abused by his community. Substitute a 25 year old rape victim who is drug through the mud for accusing someone of power. To say that their suicides exist in a bubble and they just decided to be suicidal one day is gross. 

 

That's the problem with social media lynch mobs and whisper campaigns. He can't defend himself because he's already been convicted and sentenced. He already lost all his work, he already had people start to pull away from him for fear of guilt by association. This is exactly why we have a criminal justice system to being with. 

Suicide is never the right solution. It's a bad choice. Do you really disagree?

There is a difference between the situation that Ed faced, an accusation based on his conduct that he may well have thought was not founded and was defensible (at least according to his note) and the situation of a trans person who is facing discrimination and shaming for who they are - something that is not wrongful conduct as the only wrongdoing in that situation is by the shamers. 

I'd agree about the rape victim. That too would be a bad choice. 

You miss the point, we all have personal responsibility for choices. Whether it is to engage in sexual misconduct or to report it. Whether it is to resist the heat that may result from engaging in or reporting that sexual misconduct, or to commit suicide. Here, Ed committed suicide. The alleged victim of his misconduct is being lambasted here and elsewhere, including by you, and yet she has not. Who is making the better choice?

Edited April 2 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

On 4/2/2024 at 8:46 AM, jimjum12 said:

That still leaves, to me, an unfair burden on a sex biased event. That kind of simplifies it. In a society purported to exist on tenants of equality, that's just not OK. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Correction to my original post "Which does not make every accusation true." Sorry if you were misled. The legal system has a poor record of handling rape victims. I don't anyone who thinks it is balanced or equal.

Edited April 2 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

On 4/2/2024 at 6:15 AM, Prince Namor said:

 

At any point, she could've just blocked him on social media. Instead, she continued that friendship.

She was never sexually assaulted. If those couple of texts are the WORST that happened... 

You completely misunderstand the factual allegations here. This is not a case of a rape accusation. It is a case of a grooming accusation. Two entirely different things. One is predicated upon force and the other on persuasion. 

Sometimes, something a victim may view as acceptable when they are young - because they trusted the priest, coach, mentor, acquaintance, etc. - becomes revealed in a different light when the victim is older.

[wombat]

I'm sure this will sound heartless, but this is on him. No one made him commit suicide. That was his choice. Why? Because he didn't want to have to defend himself? It was going to be too much work? So he took the quick and easy way out of the situation knowing all the grief it would cause his loved ones. 

[jimjum12]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:59 AM, sfcityduck said:

Correction to my original post "Which does not make every accusation true." Sorry if you were misled. The legal system has a poor record of handling rape victims. I don't anyone who thinks it is balanced or equal.

Probably one of the best systems in the World, albeit a work in progress. The victims I knew who refused to file charges, did so because of the hassle and the "thoroughness" of the process. That's not necessarily a bad thing, especially for those innocent men in Prison for what amounted to not much more than hearsay. It's an ugly situation, with no real "return to normal". 

[sfcityduck]

On 4/2/2024 at 9:10 AM, jimjum12 said:

Probably one of the best systems in the World, albeit a work in progress. The victims I knew who refused to file charges, did so because of the hassle and the "thoroughness" of the process. That's not necessarily a bad thing, especially for those innocent men in Prison for what amounted to not much more than hearsay. It's an ugly situation, with no real "return to normal". 

Agree our legal system is probably the best in the world. But that doesn't mean its close to perfect. We are constantly striving to improve it.

The problem with rape victims is less the courts than it is the police and prosecutors. Historically, they took the position that it wasn't worth prosecuting a rape case on behalf of a sexually active woman. The notion was something along the lines of is the victim had sex with guy A, B, and C, then she couldn't win a rape case against guy D. Those attitudes have been hard to quash. There have been legal reforms. It does not help that society, including as we even see on posts by some here, want to blame the victim for the sexual misconduct (she shouldn't have dressed so sexy or flirted etc. or here it is "she should have filtered him out" which truly misses the point). 

I agree innocent men get sent to jail. That's most prevalently the case where the issue is identification of the rapist. And that problem usually centers on interracial identification by eye witnesses. Usually when white witnesses identify a black man when they have trouble telling black men apart. The classic example is the race to convict the Central Park Five who were exonerated after the real perp confessed (and DNA evidence confirmed) a decade after the crime. Our system carries that risk. But that risk is not a justification for not prosecuting a crime at all.

Edited April 2 by sfcityduck

[MatterEaterLad]

I work in publishing and a few years ago there was a whisper network where women created a list of mega-successful Young Adult authors who had been predatory creeps.

As far as I know, nothing approximating rape, but definite "come to my hotel room at this convention and I'll help you get published" kind of stuff. The propositions were to adult women, but some were college age.

It took a bunch of big name authors down. Their agents fired them. Their publishers cancelled contracts. Speaking gigs cancelled. One guy had to give back a big award.

But...that list was like the Bat-Signal for jilted lovers who added names of their exes and those guys' careers got wrecked as well. It didn't matter that they were innocent of actual wrongdoing. When their names were trending on Twitter there was an avalanche of bad press, speculation, and venom. The scary thing was that no one could openly defend them, because the few who did were treated as fellow predators or enablers. 

No one attempted suicide (that I know of) but the difference between these guys and Ed Piskor is that these other guys were millionaires. Their careers got derailed but they still had money and could go five years without a book and still pay their bills and live their lives. Most have apologized and rebooted their careers. 

I wish Ed had given himself the chance to make amends and keep creating cool work. 

[jimjum12]

On 4/2/2024 at 12:20 PM, sfcityduck said:

But that risk is not a justification for not prosecuting a crime at all.

It still needs to BE a crime, there should be a fairly solid premise. Innocents going to Prison should not be happening. A burden of sufficient proof should be precluding that, better than it is. It ain't OK for it to be "the cost of doing business". That's all I'm saying, and experiences in my life shaped that. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited April 2 by jimjum12

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Ryan.]

On 4/2/2024 at 12:29 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

I wish Ed had given himself the chance

Me too.

[thehumantorch]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:05 AM, wombat said:

I'm sure this will sound heartless, but this is on him. No one made him commit suicide. That was his choice. Why? Because he didn't want to have to defend himself? It was going to be too much work? So he took the quick and easy way out of the situation knowing all the grief it would cause his loved ones. 

Sure, he killed himself and ultimately that was his choice.  But I don't think we should ignore how our behaviour online, or for that matter in person, can affect someone.  This guy's reputation is destroyed, his chosen career is over, and thousands or millions of online haters have attacked him.  He may very well have felt the whole world hated him and his life was over.  

And I think we should also try to imagine the state of mind he was in just before he killed himself.  At the point of despair that he decides to kill himself it might have seemed like the easiest way out to him but is that how we really want situations like this to resolve?  

 

[wombat]

On 4/2/2024 at 1:31 PM, thehumantorch said:

Sure, he killed himself and ultimately that was his choice.  But I don't think we should ignore how our behaviour online, or for that matter in person, can affect someone.  This guy's reputation is destroyed, his chosen career is over, and thousands or millions of online haters have attacked him.  He may very well have felt the whole world hated him and his life was over.  

And I think we should also try to imagine the state of mind he was in just before he killed himself.  At the point of despair that he decides to kill himself it might have seemed like the easiest way out to him but is that how we really want situations like this to resolve?  

 

But this is what I'm saying. His reputation. His career. He could have fought for those. Others have come back from things like this. Of course other factors could have been at play. Maybe he had issues know one knew about that made this worse for him. 

But what's the "fix" for this? Not have people step forward when they think they are a victim? Not cut ties with people if you know it will cost you business? How should this have played out?

[grendel013]

I work for New Jersey's Child Welfare Department. Teen suicide is one of the harder topics I work with. I just want to remind folks if they are ever feeling suicidal to please call or text 988 if you feel like you have nowhere else to go.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:31 AM, thehumantorch said:

Sure, he killed himself and ultimately that was his choice.  But I don't think we should ignore how our behaviour online, or for that matter in person, can affect someone.  This guy's reputation is destroyed, his chosen career is over, and thousands or millions of online haters have attacked him.  He may very well have felt the whole world hated him and his life was over.  

And I think we should also try to imagine the state of mind he was in just before he killed himself.  At the point of despair that he decides to kill himself it might have seemed like the easiest way out to him but is that how we really want situations like this to resolve?  

 

To answer your question: "No." I am confident that no one wants to see a person commit suicide.

But do we want to blame the alleged victim for speaking out about her experience or deter others from doing so or drive her to suicide by casting her as a murderer as Ed's final message sought to do? "No."

 

[MatterEaterLad]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:36 AM, wombat said:

Others have come back from things like this.

Dave Sim is still working, right? 

Didn't he fly an underage girl to some convention where she stayed in his hotel room? He met her when she was 13.  

[Axe Elf]

If he had asked her to buy a bunny suit and sit on his face she might be a victim of sexual assault, but from what I can see, her "victimization" consisted of being called a "naughty girl" after describing a petty crime, and being offered a place to crash (in a separate bedroom, with it's own drawing table) if she was ever in town.  If she was located in a state with stricter age of consent laws, it might be considered grooming--but they both lived in PA, so it's not that, either.

I don't know the artist and I certainly don't vouch for his character, but from the information available, it seems to me that the least repugnant behavior of anyone involved was the artist's.

[BrashL]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:55 AM, Qalyar said:

Your eager willingness to view actual victims and (potential) wrongdoers as equivalent is disturbing.

Well here's the problem with that statement, without the guiderails of the criminal justice system that statement is totally subjective. It can be true that the 17 year old was the victim of "grooming" and Ed was the perpetrator. It can be equally true that the 17 year old posting to social media three years later saying the equvalent of 
"I think this guy is a creep and if anyone else wants more dirt on him let me know" is harassment and Ed was the victim. The way we avoid this is dealing with these issue through the courts and not Instagram Stories. 

[wombat]

You can't stop people from sharing their experiences. And you certainly can't dictate how they are supposed to feel about their experiences. 

[Sauce Dog]

On 4/2/2024 at 1:48 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Dave Sim is still working, right? 

Didn't he fly an underage girl to some convention where she stayed in his hotel room? He met her when she was 13.  

and countless other professionals as well both in this industry or others, to the point I actually find it harder to name someone who ACTUALLY has been outright cancelled, as in they have lost all platforms willing to host them and they get zero work in their industry (actual zero work, not just a lack of high profile mainstream work like Gina Carano lost). So many of the 'cancelled'  people simply get propped up by a right-leaning base and have guaranteed income and interviews forever at that point...or come back in a year or two after self reflection and working at it (Dan Harmon is a good example of this)

(also Warren Ellis, he has taken a 'break' since the allegations so has not released new stuff in the last two years while going through mediation, though he is being a jerk and hasn't changed, but has just recently started his newsletter back up and is gearing up for a comeback - something Piskor could have done in perhaps less time as I'm sure his hometown showcase would have simply been rescheduled to a later date once things died down) 

[BrashL]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:56 AM, sfcityduck said:

Suicide is never the right solution. It's a bad choice. Do you really disagree?

There is a difference between the situation that Ed faced, an accusation based on his conduct that he may well have thought was not founded and was defensible (at least according to his note) and the situation of a trans person who is facing discrimination and shaming for who they are - something that is not wrongful conduct as the only wrongdoing in that situation is by the shamers. 

I'd agree about the rape victim. That too would be a bad choice. 

You miss the point, we all have personal responsibility for choices. Whether it is to engage in sexual misconduct or to report it. Whether it is to resist the heat that may result from engaging in or reporting that sexual misconduct, or to commit suicide. Here, Ed committed suicide. The alleged victim of his misconduct is being lambasted here and elsewhere, including by you, and yet she has not. Who is making the better choice?

What a sad strawman. Yes suicide is bad, no one has or would say different. That he felt the need to take his life over this is sad as we all recognize his life had more value that whatever damage had been done to his work and reputation. No one has stated otherwise.

The point being made is that just because you don't pull the trigger doesn't mean you contributed to someone's death. I would think this would be uncontroversial as well. 

Another important point is that if this girl had confronted him personally and expressed the hurt he caused, or shared it in a small circle that included him and that guilt drove him to suicide it's sad but ultimately it was him being unable to cope with it. In this case he was publicly destroyed for no reason more that I can see except that there were a lot of people with a platform that didn't like him and this girl for whatever after three years decided to give them the ammo they needed. His note made pretty clear it wasn't guilt that got to him, it was being publicly shamed and having his life (in his mind) irretrievably destroyed.