Why is CGC grading so inconsistent? 2 2

[EricJ7]

I had a dealer submit my Uncanny X-Men 256 along with others of the same issue.

He said mine was a great 9.8 candidate.   Gets it back and it is a 9.2, yet one that had a wrinkle and dimples was given 9.8.

Why?  It doesn't make sense!

[Lightning55]

Sounds like CGC (or the dealer) switched books in the submission. It's a coin toss.

It happens at CGC a lot that similar books in a submission get swapped labels.  But it could be the dealer switching it to his advantage from the get-go. 

[Cman429]

I get books back all the time that I submit with one set of flaws (as noted in grader notes, not just my opinion) and they come back with DIFFERENT flaws noted. Every grader spots different things. Cgc isn’t inconsistent, it’s just that grading is HIGHLY subjective 

[JollyComics]

You saw the book is a potential 9.8 candidate.

Your dealer handled and packed your book before it was shipped.

USPS, UPS, FedEx or whatever service handled and delivered the package throughout many locations as such as hubs and distribution centers before the local office/hub.

CGC receiving department received and they handled your book.

You book went through Verification, Authentication and Grading. I would guess your books was handled by five people.

The last person handled your book in the Encapsulation room.

That is at least 9 people to handle your book. That is always a possibility of the book being downgraded.

[Gaard]

Is there an advantage to having a dealer sub your books for you?

[Sauce Dog]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:44 AM, Gaard said:

Is there an advantage to having a dealer sub your books for you?

For anyone NOT located in the United States it makes a massive difference in shipping. If I wanted to ship ONE single book to CGC for grading myself, and have them return it to me, the cost would be around $90usd just for shipping (not including any surprises coming back over the border via duties/imports if paperwork isn't correctly done). Submitting through a dealer has them mail a giant bulk shipment, and have all the return paper work completed/optimized as well as using discounted business rates (which often only add maybe $10 shipping costs to my order for a stack of books).

My dealer isn't handling the actual books much either, you just have to drop em off bag & boarded properly and you know they will be safe (all my big books are in an archive sleeve as well as a bag/board to prevent any issues while shipping)

[shadroch]

On 4/28/2024 at 11:21 AM, Sauce Dog said:

For anyone NOT located in the United States it makes a massive difference in shipping. If I wanted to ship ONE single book to CGC for grading myself, and have them return it to me, the cost would be around $90usd just for shipping (not including any surprises coming back over the border via duties/imports if paperwork isn't correctly done). Submitting through a dealer has them mail a giant bulk shipment, and have all the return paper work completed/optimized as well as using discounted business rates (which often only add maybe $10 shipping costs to my order for a stack of books).

My dealer isn't handling the actual books much either, you just have to drop em off bag & boarded properly and you know they will be safe (all my big books are in an archive sleeve as well as a bag/board to prevent any issues while shipping)

How do you know they will be safe, and whose insurance covers them from the time you drop them off until they are mailed?

[Sauce Dog]

On 4/28/2024 at 5:25 PM, shadroch said:

How do you know they will be safe, and whose insurance covers them from the time you drop them off until they are mailed?

Reputation is all that is needed. There are plenty of places in Toronto I AVOID going to because of how poorly they handle books (cough Paradise Comics cough), and a store should have insurance if anything major happens prior to mailing but that is a risk you take regardless (or during mailing, though I've yet to hear anyone have an issue with the shop I use in this respect. Though every book I submit I take photos of at the time of submission in front of them, with invoice in view, and signatures of them confirming it)

Edited April 28 by Sauce Dog

[shadroch]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:49 PM, Sauce Dog said:

Reputation is all that is needed. There are plenty of places in Toronto I AVOID going to because of how poorly they handle books (cough Paradise Comics cough), and a store should have insurance if anything major happens prior to mailing but that is a risk you take regardless (or during mailing, though I've yet to hear anyone have an issue with the shop I use in this respect. Though every book I submit I take photos of at the time of submission in front of them, with invoice in view, and signatures of them confirming it)

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but a shop owner's insurance covers his inventory, not necessarily items in his possession. I currently consign things for a hobby, and it is amazing some of the terms shops foist on consigners.  Many shops take zero responsibility for items consigned to them if they mysteriously disappear.  My insurance covers my inventory in transit, but not when it is in someone else's possession.  Don't assume a shop has you covered.  

[lafevers60@yahoo.com]

I am sorry to report that CGC  is not perfect and there are gonna be instances where they have made obvious grading results that do not suit everyone.

When it is brought to their attention that a 7.5 for sale on ebay compared to your 6.5 there is an obvious grading error so you tell them to look at the difference of the 2 magazines and see how obvious  and that its their reputation on the line they respond with send in the book to be looked at again with no gaurentees. I just want them to compare the 2 and give me back an honest answer and admit that yes something is wrong and we will fix at no charge. When they grade magazines or anything they shoul;d have available several magazines of the same issue in different states of grade to compare to to be consistant with graded mags of many years ago.Another problem I would like to bring to the attention of CGC is  why are they grading everything in increments of .5? I send in 5 mags and they all grade at 7.0. Excuse me the odds of 5 mags grading the same is impoissible when they have different flaws  affecting the grade. The flaws are small and should be looked at with more detailed preciosion using numbers like .2 or .3 instead of everything is .5 so final grades are 7.2 or 7.3. It appears they dont care if they grade a 6.5 is in better shape than a 7.5 but they should. If CGC IS NOTCONSISTANT  IT EFFECXTS THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY OF GRADING. The march 1980 Playboy of Bo Derek has a area on the cover that looks like fingers have made a mark and they mention it in Graders Notes. Well every issue has that mark so its a part of the original print and should not be a flaw as they have done since its on every mag. I am not happy with CGC and I hope they try harder to be more consistant and  instead of backing up their graders  final decision when a obvious 6.5 is in better condition than a 7.5 they will immediatlly take care of it and learn by it 

 

[thehumantorch]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:10 PM, lafevers60@yahoo.com said:

I am sorry to report that CGC  is not perfect and there are gonna be instances where they have made obvious grading results that do not suit everyone.

When it is brought to their attention that a 7.5 for sale on ebay compared to your 6.5 there is an obvious grading error so you tell them to look at the difference of the 2 magazines and see how obvious  and that its their reputation on the line they respond with send in the book to be looked at again with no gaurentees. I just want them to compare the 2 and give me back an honest answer and admit that yes something is wrong and we will fix at no charge. When they grade magazines or anything they shoul;d have available several magazines of the same issue in different states of grade to compare to to be consistant with graded mags of many years ago.Another problem I would like to bring to the attention of CGC is  why are they grading everything in increments of .5? I send in 5 mags and they all grade at 7.0. Excuse me the odds of 5 mags grading the same is impoissible when they have different flaws  affecting the grade. The flaws are small and should be looked at with more detailed preciosion using numbers like .2 or .3 instead of everything is .5 so final grades are 7.2 or 7.3. It appears they dont care if they grade a 6.5 is in better shape than a 7.5 but they should. If CGC IS NOTCONSISTANT  IT EFFECXTS THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY OF GRADING. The march 1980 Playboy of Bo Derek has a area on the cover that looks like fingers have made a mark and they mention it in Graders Notes. Well every issue has that mark so its a part of the original print and should not be a flaw as they have done since its on every mag. I am not happy with CGC and I hope they try harder to be more consistant and  instead of backing up their graders  final decision when a obvious 6.5 is in better condition than a 7.5 they will immediatlly take care of it and learn by it 

 

No CGC isn't perfect.  No grading company depending on humans to grade can be perfectly consistent.  I've had a few books come back with grades I don't understand but the the vast majority do.

You can't just look at a different copy of a book on ebay to draw an accurate comparison.  Some defects are difficult to see through the case and difficult to see from a photo.  Especially defects like bends in the cover and minor stains.  And you can't grade the interior of the book once it's slabbed.  Rips in the pages, detached staples, interior rust, interior food stains etc.  I have a beautiful precode horror book that looks better than a 6.0 but it came back 4.5 because it has a food stain on an interior page.

 

defects like minor stains, bends, 

and some defects are on the interior and can't be seem once a book is encapsulated.  Minor cover stains for instance can be very difficult to spot

[Hepcat]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:49 PM, Sauce Dog said:

Reputation is all that is needed. There are plenty of places in Toronto I AVOID going to because of how poorly they handle books....

To whom do you go in Toronto?

[Sauce Dog]

On 6/11/2024 at 11:56 PM, Hepcat said:

To whom do you go in Toronto?

For CGC submission I always prefer Gotham Central Comics, though it is technically just outside of Toronto in Mississauga (only a 20 minute drive from my place though so nothing major). Most of the other comic shops I go to no longer submit to CGC (and in fact most I've spoken to recommend Gotham anyways)

[Neo "The One"]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:06 PM, thehumantorch said:

No CGC isn't perfect.  No grading company depending on humans to grade can be perfectly consistent.  I've had a few books come back with grades I don't understand but the the vast majority do.

You can't just look at a different copy of a book on ebay to draw an accurate comparison.  Some defects are difficult to see through the case and difficult to see from a photo.  Especially defects like bends in the cover and minor stains.  And you can't grade the interior of the book once it's slabbed.  Rips in the pages, detached staples, interior rust, interior food stains etc.  I have a beautiful precode horror book that looks better than a 6.0 but it came back 4.5 because it has a food stain on an interior page.

 

defects like minor stains, bends, 

and some defects are on the interior and can't be seem once a book is encapsulated.  Minor cover stains for instance can be very difficult to spot

Consistent graders notes would help.  A few things irk me.  1) A book with no visible flaws (spine creases, rips tears) comes back a 9.6 or less.  I had 3 out of 4 Spider-Man 2099 #1 (1992) Autograph come back 9.4 (brand new, unread bagged and boarded and stored properly by me off the rack)  the one 9.6 had a non-color breaking smallest of creases (more like a slight blemish than a crease even) that looked worse than the 9.4's.  2)  A book with visible defects that break color comes back a 9.8.  Hooray me, but not good for the next buyer (or if I happen to be that buyer) or QC standard for that matter.  If that is a professional graders "Opinion" then in my opinion, that opinion is wrong. 

Edited June 13 by Neo "The One"

[thehumantorch]

On 6/11/2024 at 10:15 PM, Sauce Dog said:

For CGC submission I always prefer Gotham Central Comics, though it is technically just outside of Toronto in Mississauga (only a 20 minute drive from my place though so nothing major). Most of the other comic shops I go to no longer submit to CGC (and in fact most I've spoken to recommend Gotham anyways)

I'm curious, why do most of the comic shops no longer sub to CGC?

[Lightning55]

I believe CGC reduced the Dealer discount, making it less attractive for shops to submit for you.

And it's like being between a rock and a hard place if something goes wrong with the order. The shop customer has no standing with CGC, no account, not the recognized submitter. So the Dealer has to relay complaints for mechanical errors, label mistakes, perceived incorrect grades, etc. What a hassle, and for not much money.

[Sauce Dog]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:24 PM, thehumantorch said:

I'm curious, why do most of the comic shops no longer sub to CGC?

Most of the time it was far too much hassle and logistics for the shop, it can be a full time job just organizing and packaging up all the comics if it gets too much (and that is assuming everything always goes smoothly. For example one small annoyance; I know Gotham has boxes of books that have not been picked up by customers after they were graded and returned to them - they just sit there for months taking up space, which I honestly found odd that the customers didn't make it a priority to pick up their own property on time). 

[Neo "The One"]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:24 PM, thehumantorch said:

I'm curious, why do most of the comic shops no longer sub to CGC?

In the 'olden days' I used to submit through Mile High.  Which was funny, because I'm in NY.  They would let me send directly to CGC which is why I only had a free membership for years.   But they stopped that a long long time ago.