Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:14 PM, DanJD said:

On 8/12/2024 at 6:58 PM, WernerVonDoom said:

I just bought an early 90s book on eBay that was graded on 7/29/24. It is crazy warped both vertically and horizontally. I'm not buying any more books until this is fixed. My god. @CGC Mike

As second owner, I guess I am out of luck. I'm not throwing any good money after bad to get this re-holdered.

Return it to seller?  If enough get returned, sellers might put pressure on the company to fix it. Apparently small volume collector submissions doesn’t matter to CGC.

Pics of the cross? horizontal vertical? Axis? any pics?

[WernerVonDoom]

On 8/12/2024 at 5:26 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Pics of the cross? horizontal vertical? Axis? any pics?

I'm terrible at taking pictures, but it is definitely this. Apparently I'm late to the party. IMO this could be a company-ending problem. Scammers? There's always scammers. Newton rings? I don't care. Wrong labels? Whatever. Squishy grading? Part of the hobby. Every book being bowl-shaped?  I'm out.

[wiparker824]

On 8/11/2024 at 8:02 AM, Stefan_W said:

I crack a pile of slabs ever week or two in order to do crack and resubs. These more recent books are a tiny part of the market so I have only done a couple so far, and I will wait to do more before saying too much. But spoiler alert - so far (and things may change), I have not seen anything was I not expecting. 

The only thing I can really tell after cracking several newer slabs this week is the outer shell is quite difficult to pry open unlike every previous generation of cases. When it came to the inner well, I agree, I’m not really seeing anything that I’m not expecting once I get there. But that outer shell is quite a pain to pry now. So much so that it does make me wonder if that extra pressure from sealing all 4 sides that tightly is what’s causing this. Basically if it’s a 2024 grade I have to break out the hammer now, and before I could get away with just a screwdriver. Haven’t cracked any with massive warping, some slight warping that didn’t cause damage but not like the examples in this thread. 

I’d be very curious if anyone was cracking one with major warping what it looked like after cracking it out though. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:38 PM, WernerVonDoom said:

I'm terrible at taking pictures, but it is definitely this. Apparently I'm late to the party. IMO this could be a company-ending problem. Scammers? There's always scammers. Newton rings? I don't care. Wrong labels? Whatever. Squishy grading? Part of the hobby. Every book being bowl-shaped?  I'm out.

ya I had one that "looked worse" in that position, that I posted too and even in another thread (the bone thread in the modern section) even before this thread was created. It made it look as though it "wasn't a 9.8", even with the one tick showing. It was a Cable/Deadpool 2004 cgc 9.8.

Problem is I looked the book over before sending and vaguely remember a faint tick in the spot, middle spine. I just didn't know what it was or if "made worse". I didn't get a response when I first posted, nor really here in this thread.

I'm not being critical of you at all, I especially would find it hard to post an effective picture of the side, through the plastic, of a blurry curved book; although, I admire those who have tried with CGC.

There have been some effective pics, I only remember the one that showed a cross of vertical and horizontal twist sprain posted by @DanJD

All the others have just been a bow like example, which I think that I have or and affected one by that description. The tick being in the middle of spine just makes it pronounce, and pics are a pain for sure. CGC isn't doing anything about it now anyway, so there isn't much going on to follow it either  but to know what to look for in slabs that will come back. The thread is there and it will take time, and maybe eventually. My 9.8 I think is still 9.8 (imo) but depends on the book. Just the file on this isn't as thick yet to matter, evidently, it'll get there, and no worries  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:42 PM, wiparker824 said:

The only thing I can really tell after cracking several newer slabs this week is the outer shell is quite difficult to pry open unlike every previous generation of cases. When it came to the inner well, I agree, I’m not really seeing anything that I’m not expecting once I get there. But that outer shell is quite a pain to pry now. So much so that it does make me wonder if that extra pressure from sealing all 4 sides that tightly is what’s causing this. Basically if it’s a 2024 grade I have to break out the hammer now, and before I could get away with just a screwdriver. Haven’t cracked any with massive warping, some slight warping that didn’t cause damage but not like the examples in this thread. 

I’d be very curious if anyone was cracking one with major warping what it looked like after cracking it out though. 

ya just because I'm mid effectively participating, I was going to ask anyone who cracked one if just the inner well is pinched as opposed "bowed due to the air escaping in a seal" @wiparker824

They're not airtight. I know that!

It is just not molding to the case, and if the inner well appears fine outside of the case? then it just must not fit the case, last I posted mentioned there was a tab on the spine side at the top at least, maybe bottom too, that was "pinning the inner well" I remember that, but no one has rementioned  

This is why I just asked for pics, as it all sounds like semantics, and yet, a real something and not a figment etc. 

Edited August 13 by ADAMANTIUM

[MAY1979]

 

On 8/12/2024 at 7:58 PM, WernerVonDoom said:

I just bought an early 90s book on eBay that was graded on 7/29/24. It is crazy warped both vertically and horizontally. I'm not buying any more books until this is fixed. My god. @CGC Mike

As second owner, I guess I am out of luck. I'm not throwing any good money after bad to get this re-holdered.

 

On 8/12/2024 at 8:14 PM, DanJD said:

Return it to seller!  If enough get returned, sellers might put pressure on the company to fix it? Apparently small volume collector submissions doesn’t matter to CGC.  

Edited August 13 by MAR1979

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:49 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

ya just because I'm mid effectively participating, I was going to ask anyone who cracked one if just the inner well is pinched as opposed "bowed due to the air escaping in a seal" @wiparker824

They're not airtight. I know that!

It is just not molding to the case, and if the inner well appears fine outside of the case? then it just must not fit the case, last I posted mentioned there was a tab on the spine side at the top at least, maybe bottom too, that was "pinning the inner well" I remember that, but no one has rementioned  

This is why I just asked for pics, as it all sounds like semantics, and yet, a real something and not a figment etc. 

Slight edit to clarify, all good for now, beyond the window date and I wasn't one of the few who got offered a mail away press reholder.

I know I submitted an asm 300 a long time ago that came back with a similar tick, not due to this current situation, that got 8.0.

Sometimes things like these is why I do so poorly in grading contests yadda yadda I sold that ASM but I got the cable Deadpool, because the tpb of the series was the first story I read when getting back in, so is a personal thing.

I had others that bowed in that same submission, but either didn't affect grade or looked about normal.

Long story to quote with the clarification of edit, that while I "get why cgc says what it says" to a point, all other iterations showed no bowing. That in itself clarifies this isn't the norm and should be looked into, imo

Edited August 13 by ADAMANTIUM

[MAY1979]

Something to keep in mind - while it guarantees absolutely nothing, there is powerful tool few consumers realize they have:

Credit Card Disputes and Charge Backs regardless of the outcome of dispute Merchants/Sellers/Businesses/etc pay the cost (a fee) to the Card Issuers. Does not matter if the Credit Card is used for Good or SERVICES.  If enough of them are filed with a large Credit Card issuer like Bank of America or Chase they will start to at least pose difficult questions to the Merchants/Sellers/Businesses/etc if enough people state similar reason in the dispute. Example; An item sent for a service offering was damaged by the Merchant. Or a purchased good was sold damaged but not advertised as such.

Below sampled from; https://www.credit.com/blog/what-happens-to-the-merchant-when-you-dispute-a-charge/

What Happens to the Merchant When You Dispute a Charge?

If you successfully dispute a charge, the bank will notify the merchant and return funds to the issuing consumer via a chargeback. From here, merchants can decide if they want to dispute the chargeback or not.

If you file a dispute for a credit card charge with a bank, that bank will quickly notify the corresponding merchant that you’ve initiated this process. From here, the merchant can review your claim and decide whether or not to accept or deny your dispute. 

According to the Federal Trade Commission, you can withhold payment for disputed charges while the investigation is underway. Your credit card company can’t penalize you with late fees, interest, or reports to the major credit reporting agencies regarding nonpayment of those charges. 

What Is a Chargeback?

A chargeback occurs when you successfully dispute a charge on your credit card. The charge is taken off your credit card account and the money paid to the merchant is reversed (or “charged back” to the merchant). Many people dispute credit card charges for services not rendered.

A chargeback can be a powerful tool for consumers who do not receive products or services they paid for, but it comes with several caveats. Even if the credit card company sides with you, the merchant may not—and they may try to collect the chargeback funds. 

When you dispute a charge with your credit card company, it must conduct what the law calls a “reasonable investigation” to determine whether the charge was correct. It must also present you with the result of the investigation within 90 days.

During that process, the credit card company typically reaches out to the merchant involved in the charge. It requests documentation from the merchant regarding the transaction in question, and the merchant may be able to state why the charge was correct.

If the credit card company sides with you, it removes the charge from your credit card statement, and you do not need to pay the charge on your credit card.

 

Edited August 13 by MAR1979

[Stefan_W]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:42 PM, wiparker824 said:

The only thing I can really tell after cracking several newer slabs this week is the outer shell is quite difficult to pry open unlike every previous generation of cases. When it came to the inner well, I agree, I’m not really seeing anything that I’m not expecting once I get there. But that outer shell is quite a pain to pry now. So much so that it does make me wonder if that extra pressure from sealing all 4 sides that tightly is what’s causing this. Basically if it’s a 2024 grade I have to break out the hammer now, and before I could get away with just a screwdriver. Haven’t cracked any with massive warping, some slight warping that didn’t cause damage but not like the examples in this thread. 

I’d be very curious if anyone was cracking one with major warping what it looked like after cracking it out though. 

The trick is to put the tip of a flat head screwdriver onto the top seal and tap lightly with a small hammer until it cracks through a bit. Then just turn the screw driver until you crack the seal and proceed as usual from there. I find it takes a minute or two longer than it used to. The part that prevents tampering is it is impossible to get the inner well out without mangling the case. 

I am not sure what you mean by major warping. Since you crack cases you can see how little room there is in there, and the significance of the bend is limited by the freedom of movement in the case. If you are referring to cases where ticks look worse or the book looks like it hasnt been pressed, none of that appears to be permanent based on the limited number I have cracked so far.  

[cphoenix921]

Just got an order back and almost the entire order has these same issues. It is extremely frustrating, they need to resolve these issues or I will not be sending more comics in. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:52 PM, cphoenix921 said:

Just got an order back and almost the entire order has these same issues. It is extremely frustrating, they need to resolve these issues or I will not be sending more comics in. 

The issue does not occur apparently for Large Monthly and Annually Volume Submitter's (or influencer's) - example JoeyPost who has stated in all his sub's he has never received any book with the issues reported in this thread.

This means cause is known, but there is something in the process or materials done/used for large submitting entities that is not done or anyone else even if if the books are re-holdered.   It also means unless you can see a book in person you wont know if its been affected or not. Those who purchase online may want to stick to a venue where the buyer holds all the power (eBay), and ensure to use a credit card for when (not if) a dispute and chargeback is needed.

Edited August 13 by MAR1979

[DanJD]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:52 PM, cphoenix921 said:

Just got an order back and almost the entire order has these same issues. It is extremely frustrating, they need to resolve these issues or I will not be sending more comics in. 

Don’t worry.  According to some, there is no damage.  Just crack it open and it will pop right back into place…I am starting to think there is a CGC plant or a bot on this thread just popping up every so often to convince others this is fine.  

[Ninja0215]

I really really hope that the white along the spine is a reflection.  😳😬🤔

 

This is my latest sub coming back to me. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:14 PM, Ninja0215 said:

I really really hope that the white along the spine is a reflection.  😳😬🤔

 

This is my latest sub coming back to me. 

It is because it is on the staple too

[DanJD]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:14 PM, Ninja0215 said:

I really really hope that the white along the spine is a reflection.  😳😬🤔

 

This is my latest sub coming back to me. 

It’s hard to tell from a scan, but that reflection of light that gets brighter towards the middle of the spine indicates to me it’s warped.  Maybe not causing damage necessarily in this case, but the shape of the light that is dark on the edges and reflected towards the middle would make me take a close look.  Let us know once it arrives.  Good luck.

Edited August 13 by DanJD

[Ninja0215]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:19 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

It is because it is on the staple too

Lol !!!  I'm already going off about this place. I idn't want to add fuel to ffire,

[Ninja0215]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:21 PM, DanJD said:

It’s hard to tell from a scan, but that reflection of light that gets brighter towards the middle of the spine indicates to me it’s warped.  Maybe not causing damage necessarily in this case, but the shape of the light that is dark on the edges and reflected towards the middle would me take a close look.  Let us know once it arrives.  Good luck.

Will do! Thanks for letting me know. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:21 PM, Ninja0215 said:

Lol !!!  I'm already going off about this place. I idn't want to add fuel to ffire,

I'm not seeing white line extend to the staple - top staple?

Edited August 13 by MAR1979

[DanJD]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:23 PM, Ninja0215 said:

Will do! Thanks for letting me know. 

Cool book though!

[Ninja0215]

This was/is my favorite video game series when I was kid back in the 90's. Can't wait for the remaster!!!