Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[Yorick]

I guess I'll have to ask sellers for a front scan, back scan and now a side scan...

[Ninja0215]

On 8/14/2024 at 11:45 AM, DanJD said:

Except the original scan from after the signing that was already provided did not have all of this damage which is now permanent.  That after signing picture is post pressing as well.  People can keep trying to convince themselves and others everything is fine and to keep damaging books.  IMO if you are aware of the issue and keep submitting, the damage is your problem.  

I very much agree with you about the damage being your problem if you continue to sub. That's why I'm sending a few books to test wither or not this is going to be an ongoing thing. Is it stupid?? yeah it is. But I have to know if this will continue. 

[GACollectibles]

On 8/14/2024 at 11:45 AM, DanJD said:

Except the original scan from after the signing that was already provided did not have all of this damage which is now permanent.  That after signing picture is post pressing as well.  People can keep trying to convince themselves and others everything is fine and to keep damaging books.  IMO if you are aware of the issue and keep submitting, the damage is your problem.  

Do you have an after pressing/preslabbing scan? 

I'm not denying there is a problem, but you might not be comparing apples to apples.

[LordRahl]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:49 AM, DanJD said:

Yes.  My avengers 8 was warped, but again, it was graded a 4.5.  The spine was fairly soft already and you can’t even see the rippling on the cover.  But the spine from the side profile is bowed. 

Yeah I mean a bent well is a bent well, regardless of whether it's pronounced enough to see rippling. A lot of the moderns I have that have a bent well, the bend is very slight. Wouldn't have noticed it if I wasn't looking for it. But I have yet to see a modern that has a completely flat well from the last several months of grading and plenty of vintage that are totally flat. I just don't get it. 

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:52 AM, GACollectibles said:

Do you have an after pressing/preslabbing scan? 

I'm not denying there is a problem, but you might not be comparing apples to apples.

The original CGC scan before they repressed and reholdered it a second time is all I have which IMO does not look like the other pictures and do not see all of that color breaking that is now very obvious.

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:43 AM, DanJD said:

I cracked my book out and watched it for 2 hours.  The color breaks from the warping didn’t go away.  Did I do it wrong?

Did you forget to apply the clearly needed;

Edited August 14 by MAR1979

[alwaysbronze]

i stopped submitting books to CGC util they get their act together.

maybe that will happen when PSA enters the market.

[ADAMANTIUM]

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:52 AM, GACollectibles said:

Do you have an after pressing/preslabbing scan? 

I'm not denying there is a problem, but you might not be comparing apples to apples.

This is the best before and after I can pinpoint.  This is from Wolverine’s shoulder on the cover.  Two pics are after the signing.  I don’t care if there was a tick/dent in both. Clearly one has a color break and the other doesn’t.  The third pic was from before the signing without the tick/dent at all.  The non color breaking tick/dent was caused by either CGCs poor handling during the signing event or the inner well warp.  But the color break was for sure after the signing and grading from the inner well warp.  

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:10 PM, DanJD said:

This is the best before and after I can pinpoint.  This is from Wolverine’s shoulder on the cover.  Two pics are after the signing.  I don’t care if there was a tick/dent in both. Clearly one has a color break and the other doesn’t.  The third pic was from before the signing without the tick/dent at all.  The non color breaking tick/dent was caused by either CGCs poor handling during the signing event or the inner well warp.  But the color break was for sure after the signing and grading from the inner well warp.  

And to clarify further, I do think CGC mishandled my book during the signing event causing damage and it to fall from a graded 9.8 to a 9.6. But the warped inner well dropped the Stone Cold Stunner on my book as CGCs finishing move. 

[lostboys]

I think its obvious that flippers dont care about the bends and are trying to deflect.

 

To collectors, its very simple.

 

As a collector, I WOULD NEVER bag/board a book with a board thats curved...so why should I be okay with a plastic case thats curved?

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 3:47 PM, lostboys said:

I think its obvious that flippers dont care about the bends and are trying to deflect.

 

To collectors, its very simple.

 

As a collector, I WOULD NEVER bag/board a book with a board thats curved...so why should I be okay with a plastic case thats curved?

100%

I wonder how many sellers/flippers/dealers/auction houses  people have read this thread and have changed or will change their policy on CGG slabs to "no returns". 

Edited August 14 by MAR1979

[Number 6]

On 8/14/2024 at 2:36 PM, MAR1979 said:

100%

I wonder how many sellers/flippers/dealers/auction houses  people have read this thread and have changed or will change their policy on CGG slabs to "no returns". 

My impression is a sizable number already have that policy, which probably contributes to the “nothing-to-see-here” attitude about this. 
 

I suspect that if buyers started forcing returns through e Bay or their credit card company over this issue these same sellers will suddenly get the Jesus-juice on this actually being a problem and that CGC do something about it. 

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:54 PM, Number 6 said:

My impression is a sizable number already have that policy, which probably contributes to the “nothing-to-see-here” attitude about this. 
 

I suspect that if buyers started forcing returns through e Bay or their credit card company over this issue these same sellers will suddenly get the Jesus-juice on this actually being a problem and that CGC do something about it. 

CCCCHHHHHAAAARRRRGGGGEEEEBACKS!

Use them!  Use them for purchase of Goods or SERVICES. Especially with Chase, Amex and BOA who have the most sway especially the former!

Edited August 14 by MAR1979

[Ninja0215]

I swear to christ the older cgc slabs were a lot harder to crack. It's not even close. The last two came apart in my hands but this baby split like glass! I couldn't believe it. 

 

Anyway, my one book will be headed out to Florida tomorrow.  You have one job cgc , so get it done. 

[Ninja0215]

Btw, is it kosher to send a book inside rhe well?? Lol!! 

[Stuk]

On 8/13/2024 at 10:53 PM, Ninja0215 said:

Is this science class now?? Are we doing science? 

 

Quantum physics at cgc university.  

"It's not science, Sonny, it's strictly business."

Edited August 14 by Stuk

[Stuk]

On 8/12/2024 at 11:40 PM, LordRahl said:

That would make sense if, as someone hypothesized earlier in this thread, the cause of the warping is pressure being exerted on the inner well by the new more tamper evident method of sealing the case. Crack the case, relieve the pressure, inner well goes back to being flat which is its natural state.

Has it been established that this problem is only post-reholder scam? I (and I think others) have numerous slabs from 2023 that have this "problem." Of course, trying to determine the cause is important but only if it helps solve the problem, in my view. If we're looking at heat sealing post reholder scam as the cause, then I think we (actually, it should be CGC) should be barking up a different, earlier tree. None of my 2022 and earlier slabs have this issue. Hm? (I still think the inconsistency of it suggests human error.) 

[LordRahl]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:09 PM, Stuk said:

Has it been established that this problem is only post-reholder scam? I (and I think others) have numerous slabs from 2023 that have this "problem." Of course, trying to determine the cause is important but only if it helps solve the problem, in my view. If we're looking at heat sealing post reholder scam as the cause, then I think we (actually, it should be CGC) should be barking up a different, earlier tree. None of my 2022 and earlier slabs have this issue. Hm? (I still think the inconsistency of it suggests human error.) 

But it's only inconsistent between age of books. So far, EVERY modern I've submitted in the last few months is bent. Every. Single. One. Most of them very slightly and some pretty bad. But it's across the board. I have yet to see a pic of a completely flat inner well on a modern submission from the last few months. If someone would like to post one, please do and prove me wrong. The consistency within the moderns is exactly why I can't imagine this is human error. I don't think anything has been "established", I think all we have is conjecture at this point and I don't think we'll ever know the exact cause because CGC won't tell us and they are really the only ones that can figure out exactly what is going on. We don't have the required info. 

[LordRahl]

On 8/14/2024 at 12:47 PM, lostboys said:

I think its obvious that flippers dont care about the bends and are trying to deflect.

 

To collectors, its very simple.

 

As a collector, I WOULD NEVER bag/board a book with a board thats curved...so why should I be okay with a plastic case thats curved?

Too broad a brush. I'm a flipper, I flip so I can afford to buy books I want for my PC without having to get a divorce first. I guess I'm a fliptor... and I care. Which is why I'm chirping about it so much. It is short sighted for anyone that deals in comics to burry their head in the sand over this. Prices will be affected. It may take a few months for it to be obvious, but they will be. Once that trust is eroded, even if it's just for a percentage of people buying, well it's gone and it likely won't come back. I hate the crooks at CBCS so much that my only recourse is to stop submitting and hope that CGC either fixes this, or PSA manages to not botch their entry into the business. PSA can't come fast enough at this point, at least for me. 

I just did the math. I've submitted 1009 books since the start of April. I'm stopping all submissions until they fix this or I can send them to PSA. I simply can't take the chance of stuff that is for my PC being damaged and stuff that is meant to be flipped will sell for less than it should because some subset of buyers is sitting out on 2024 submissions, which is ALREADY happening. In auctions, sometimes all it takes is 1 or 2 people to sit out for the price to be negatively affected to a large degree and I'm just not willing to risk that.