Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[LordRahl]

On 8/18/2024 at 10:22 AM, DC# said:

Could be - hard to tell.   Will try to take pics later.  

If you can't tell with book in hand, I doubt pics will help. My guess is the well is at an angle in the shell.

[Drill423]

Damn, decide to get back in the game and submit my first batch of books (some I’ve been holding on to pre-Covid) at SDCC.   Get them back today and I have this inner well problem.   Well eff me.   Haha.  

[MAY1979]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:55 PM, MAR1979 said:

CCCCHHHHHAAAARRRRGGGGEEEEBACKS!

Use them!  Use them for purchase of Goods or SERVICES. Especially with Chase, Amex and BOA who have the most sway especially the former!

Reminder

[DC#]

Here are photos of a '423 series'  with a 1979 book.    A bit of a bow but clearly more lift at top vs bottom.   (tried to back light as much as possible).  

 

Here is a '425' series with a 1964 book.     Pretty flat and the inner well/book is resting at the bottom of the slab.   Random check of other copper, bronze and silver books in the 100s and 200s also seem to rest on the bottom of the slab.   I have no idea what the normal condition is supposed to be based on the design.   

[electricprune]

On 8/18/2024 at 6:46 PM, DC# said:

Here are photos of a '423 series'  with a 1979 book.    A bit of a bow but clearly more lift at top vs bottom.   (tried to back light as much as possible).  

 

Here is a '425' series with a 1964 book.     Pretty flat and the inner well/book is resting at the bottom of the slab.   Random check of other copper, bronze and silver books in the 100s and 200s also seem to rest on the bottom of the slab.   I have no idea what the normal condition is supposed to be based on the design.   

The first one looks like it could hold a fair amount of soup.

The second one doesn’t look bad at all, unless I’m seeing and processing it wrong.

[DC#]

On 8/18/2024 at 4:07 PM, electricprune said:

The first one looks like it could hold a fair amount of soup.

The second one doesn’t look bad at all, unless I’m seeing and processing it wrong.

The second one is not bad - it is flat.   It was more a question from an earlier post about where exactly are the inner well supposed to be sitting.   Slabs with no problems seem to be riding at the bottom while slabs with issues seem to have the ends riding all the way to the top of the slab.  

[MAY1979]

Update to my personal guidelines.  Please note this is very much in flux.

1975-present:

• CGC 437 series or higher is an instant swipe left for me!
• CGC 430-436  must see book in hand. No Online purchasing!
• CGC 423-429  Proceed with caution! If purchasing Online ensure it's only via Merchants with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay. Do not "get attached to the book" prior to viewing in person.

Pre-1975:

• CGC 437 series or higher, slab by slab basis, see book in hand if possible. Proceed with caution! If purchasing Online ensure it's only via Merchants with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay. Do not "get attached to the book" prior to viewing in person.
• CGC 423-436 Currently presumed safe. Still better to see book in hand first. If purchasing what you feel is a higher value Comic Online, ensure it's only via Merchants with a buyer friendly return policy like MCS, Comiclink, eBay.

Edited August 19 by MAR1979

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/18/2024 at 3:46 PM, DC# said:

[DC#]

I really am curious as to where the inner slab is supposed to be sitting relative to the front and back of the slab.     Conducted additional audit of my books and found many where flat inner wells are sitting more or less on the bottom of the slab while other flat inner wells are riding closer to center of the slab.   And they are all Gen 3 slabs......      

Edited August 19 by DC#

[LordRahl]

On 8/19/2024 at 7:55 AM, DC# said:

I really am curious as to where the inner slab is supposed to be sitting relative to the front and back of the slab.     Conducted additional audit of my books and found many where flat inner wells are sitting more or less on the bottom of the slab while other flat inner wells are riding closer to center of the slab.   And they are all Gen 3 slabs......      

Maybe I'm missing something here but why does this matter? If the well is flat, who cares where in the outer shell it sits?

[DC#]

On 8/19/2024 at 9:28 AM, LordRahl said:

Maybe I'm missing something here but why does this matter? If the well is flat, who cares where in the outer shell it sits?

Again....it was more my curiosity than anything.   Typically in any manufacturing process precision matters.    The slabs were designed to be assembled in a certain manner - the fact that there is any variation noticeable by the naked eye would seem to indicate that:  1) there is intentionally different designs based on some rationale  2)  there quality control issues either in the manufacturing of the slab components (tolerances are off) or in the assembly of those components  3) the components are designed to have a higher degree "slack" to ease in assembly, accommodate variations in books, etc.     If it is #3 - does that explain the other slab issues people have seen over the years?     

This thread contains various thoughts on the cause of the warping (bad employees/QC, new slab security measures, etc) - just adding to that conversation.     

[MAY1979]

Interesting Food for Thought:

As pre-1975 appears on the whole not have the same issue, this means cause is almost certainly known behind the scenes.

Implementing a change to correct the issue on 1975-present is tantamount to an admission of guilt. A admission that could easily prove very co$tly.

The parent company has one concern and one concern only; profit. What would best serve an Exec to protect profit and increase their next bonus?

Seems to me the only way to protect profit and an Exec's bonus is to do nothing on 1975-present, then expand the issue to completely encompass pre-1975.

Thus no admission of guilt, as all is "normal", and least potential profit loss. The Execs making the call succeed in padding their bonus', they then simply execute their planned 18-24 month skeddaddle leaving the mess to the next round of Exec who will do the same.

Thoughts?

P.S. I've worked/worked my way up Fortune 20 firms since the late 1990s. Anyone who does not factor Executive Bonus' is someone who lacks true understanding of "the real game"

Edited August 19 by MAR1979

[EastEnd1]

@CGC Mike... Hi Mike, can you let us know if CGC is working on correcting the bowed inserts described in this thread, and if so, when we can expect a fix?  Wouldn't seem to be that difficult to correct based on previous slab versions, but what do I know.  Thanks much.

[electricprune]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:03 PM, EastEnd1 said:

@CGC Mike... Hi Mike, can you let us know if CGC is working on correcting the bowed inserts described in this thread, and if so, when we can expect a fix?  Wouldn't seem to be that difficult to correct based on previous slab versions, but what do I know.  Thanks much.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Mike is going to be able to help here. CGC has stated already that:

“They looked over your pictures and the picture that shows the book bowed in the case is how the book is supposed to be sitting inside of the slab and is not warped. “

To CGC, there is no fix needed.

[LordRahl]

On 8/19/2024 at 10:16 AM, electricprune said:

Unfortunately, I don’t think Mike is going to be able to help here. CGC has stated already that:

“They looked over your pictures and the picture that shows the book bowed in the case is how the book is supposed to be sitting inside of the slab and is not warped. “

To CGC, there is no fix needed.

Bent 9.8s are the New Normal

[MAY1979]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:16 PM, electricprune said:

Unfortunately, I don’t think Mike is going to be able to help here. CGC has stated already that:

“They looked over your pictures and the picture that shows the book bowed in the case is how the book is supposed to be sitting inside of the slab and is not warped. “

To CGC, there is no fix needed.

As per my last post they are in way too deep and will double then triple down.

Any business they lose will be less than admission of guilt. 

If against all odds it begins to hurt their bottom line, and Executive Bonus', the parent company will end the pump and dump and sell off CGC. It will then be the next owners problem...

Of course the potential financial ramification to small-medium size sellers in this bearish Comic Market that depend on both purchases as well as legit bids is not calculable.

If you are one of those folks  in a defend stance on the issue (or from your public POV, a non-issue), you need to seriously  consider a pivot to remain viable past the short term. 

Edited August 19 by MAR1979

[EastEnd1]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:16 PM, electricprune said:

Unfortunately, I don’t think Mike is going to be able to help here. CGC has stated already that:

“They looked over your pictures and the picture that shows the book bowed in the case is how the book is supposed to be sitting inside of the slab and is not warped. “

To CGC, there is no fix needed.

I haven't read this entire thread but my understanding is that they are accepting some of these slabs back and correcting them.  So unless you want to be doing that ad infinitum, seems to me you'd be working on correcting the issue, especially since it appears to not have been an issue until recently and one would think, an easy fix.

[MAY1979]

BTW I'm seeing chatter from collectors as well as sellers on another grading Co's forums about dumping all affected books to various non buyer has all power venues !

For all that care about actual condition of the comic and not simply number on label; Be very very very careful folks!

Edited August 19 by MAR1979

[MAY1979]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:38 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I haven't read this entire thread but my understanding is that they are accepting some of these slabs back and correcting them.  So unless you want to be doing that ad infinitum, seems to me you'd be working on correcting the issue, especially since it appears to not have been an issue until recently and one would think, an easy fix.

The acceptance of returns may have already stopped.  Official message is that the damage is normal - end of problem.

As mentioned in recent posts correcting the issue is tantamount to admission of guilt and will likely result in significant expense.

There is no point if return, they are in too deep, from now on its deny deny deny and repeat repeat repeat.

[LudaToke]

I have a stack of nice high grade keys that I have been holding on to since COVID waiting for the right opportunity to get them graded but there always seems to be a major issue popping up.  I am starting to see why people eventually stop grading their books and prefer raw comics.