Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 23 23

[VintageComics]

On 9/11/2024 at 7:57 PM, MAY1979 said:

I get what you are saying is factious, but :

Not facetious at all. The Newton rings never bothered me and I thought it was a strange complaint, but then everyone is different. 

On 9/11/2024 at 7:57 PM, MAY1979 said:

Grading and market perception not relevant to this question; how come the other guys never had rings nor slabs that bend books?

How come the other guys don't have slabs that feel like $1Million in hand? Or have inferior looking labels? Or don't have the clarity and visual impact that CGC slabs have?

Everyone has something different to offer. 

[MAY1979]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:02 PM, VintageComics said:

Not facetious at all. The Newton rings never bothered me and I thought it was a strange complaint, but then everyone is different. 

How come the other guys don't have slabs that feel like $1Million in hand? Or have inferior looking labels? Or don't have the clarity and visual impact that CGC slabs have?

Everyone has something different to offer. 

I prefer slabs that do not damage MY books and that do not look like and oil slicked puddle, but then everyone is different. 

Edited September 12 by MAY1979

[VintageComics]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:04 PM, MAY1979 said:

I prefer slabs that do not damage MY books.

Pretty sure everyone does. 

[PhantomEwan]

If I send this in think I’ll get a 9.8 and it’s already curved!

[DougC]

On 9/11/2024 at 12:59 PM, PhantomEwan said:

I reached out to customer service and got a cut and paste of what CGC Mike said.  But I noticed this at the bottom and wondered how long they have had this in their emails:

 

This is standard and completely meaningless jargon on all corporate emails. Think of it like boomers posting notices on facebook about how they do not give FB the right to use their pictures/data/etc.

On 9/11/2024 at 7:45 PM, PhantomEwan said:

If I send this in think I’ll get a 9.8 and it’s already curved!

This would be a payday for CGC:

1. Graded 10.5 comic!
2. Three graded trading cards
3. Graded candy canes in a Video game box

This could open a whole new venture for CGC... Graded food items! cereal boxes, candy bars, circus peanuts.... it's just endless money.

[0r0d]

More bent books...

 

[DanJD]

Has anyone received anything back this week that was graded after CGCs last comment to see if they actually did correctly identify and fix the issue?  Might take another week or so, but figured wouldn’t hurt to check.

[MadGenius]

On 9/11/2024 at 11:38 PM, 0r0d said:

More bent books...

 

@CGC Mike Does CGC leadership still think the extreme bend in the inner wells is okay? Those ASM books look terrible. The degree of the bends on those absolutely look like they could cause damage to the spine.

[0r0d]

I asked ChatGPT to make me an image of CGC and this is what it gave me.   

[CGC Mike]

A general warning.  Promoting our competitors in any way may result in points added to your account, possible time off, and a ban from this topic.

[CGC Mike]

On 9/12/2024 at 7:34 PM, MadGenius said:

@CGC Mike Does CGC leadership still think the extreme bend in the inner wells is okay? Those ASM books look terrible. The degree of the bends on those absolutely look like they could cause damage to the spine.

Here is the statement that I made last week.  This is all of the info that I have.

We have seen reports that some of the soft-plastic wells used inside of the CGC holder exhibit a curve when viewed from the side. After learning of this, we conducted an extensive review and found that the smallest well size, which is used for the thinnest comic books, is more pliable than other wells and, in some cases, will exhibit a slight curve.

Importantly, this curve does not cause any damage to the comic book, and it does not affect the grade in any way. The angle of bend required to create a stress line simply cannot be done within the CGC holder. In addition, very high grade comic books can still exhibit minimal stress lines according to CGC’s official grading standards.

We do not consider this slight curve to be a mechanical error that requires reholdering. Still, we are always listening and want to serve our customers the best way we can. We have found that our next-largest well size does not exhibit this slight curve and have started to use that well in lieu of our smallest size.

We appreciate all of the feedback from our community, and we are grateful to be the hobby’s first choice for grading for nearly 25 years. Many of us are collectors too, and we care deeply about the services that we provide. If you have any comments, questions or concerns, please write to us at Service@CGCcomics.com or call or text us at +1-855-GRADE10.

 

[Christian_Huls]

This STILL occurs unfortunately...

 

[Barrakuda]

Wider visibility is what is most needed to apply the pressure required for an appropriate response.  The volume of squeaky wheels making noise in comparison to the size of their customer base overall crossed with CGC's small percentage of revenue contribution to their parent company means that regardless of importance to us as a subset of customers, they really don't have the hard driving force to act quickly and explicitly, as evidenced by the length of time this has been happening and the substandard (to put it nicely) responses to-date.  Simply, more public visibility to the issue is what is needed to drive some sort of more concrete statement and/or action like correcting process and repressing+reholdering and even compensating customers with egregious damage to their books.  They would want to be publicly seen as remediating the problem for their customers.

An interesting scenario would be for someone(s) to put up a significant slabbed key of some sort they want to get out from under on Ebay for a 5-day auction and title it prominently as a Bendgate or Bananagate book - "please see photos...." and include some detail of the scenario in the description.  If it doesn't sell, keep relisting.  Consistently having impacted higher-caliber books there could potentially generate a snowball effect of listings and/or visibility.

Then it's not just some spread of Youtube channels and forums with less reach due to their very focused audiences, since the majority of collectors likely aren't on these platforms.  It instead becomes a prominent posting of an obviously compromised item for sale on a primary distribution platform for their product.  That's the kind of thing that gains more eyes.  Imagine if something like that goes viral within the collector community - and that kind of posting has that potential, especially if there are multiples.

I want CGC to be better.  I want them to be successful.  I want to be able to trust them in terms of company, services, and product.  I want their entire staff to be as helpful and concerned about their customers as CGC Mike tries to be.  The right pressure in the right volume, as opposed to just complaints, is what is needed to push a response in today's corporate world where companies look at customers as commodities and necessary evils rather than taking pride in how they serve the people who actually provide the money that pays their salaries.

Unfortunately I do not have any slabs with enough moxie for the task.

I apologize for the length of post - but wanted to get it out of my head and into words before it was gone!

Edited Friday at 03:02 PM by Barrakuda

[lollyclown]

On 9/13/2024 at 7:48 AM, Barrakuda said:

Wider visibility is what is most needed to apply the pressure required for an appropriate response.  The volume of squeaky wheels making noise in comparison to the size of their customer base overall crossed with CGC's small percentage of revenue contribution to their parent company means that regardless of importance to us as a subset of customers, they really don't have the hard driving force to act quickly and explicitly, as evidenced by the length of time this has been happening and the substandard (to put it nicely) responses to-date.  Simply, more public visibility to the issue is what is needed to drive some sort of more concrete statement and/or action.

An interesting scenario would be for someone(s) to put up a significant slabbed key of some sort they want to get out from under on Ebay for a 5-day auction and title it prominently as a Bendgate or Bananagate book - "please see photos...." and include some detail of the scenario in the description.  If it doesn't sell, keep relisting.

Then it's not just some spread of Youtube channels and forums with less reach due to their very focused audiences, since the majority of collectors likely aren't on these platforms.  It instead becomes a prominent posting of an obviously compromised item for sale on a primary distribution platform for their product.  That's the kind of thing that gains more eyes.  Imagine if something like that goes viral within the collector community - and that kind of posting has that potential, especially if there are multiples.

I want CGC to be better.  I want them to be successful.  I want to be able to trust them in terms of company, services, and product.  I want their entire staff to be as helpful and concerned about their customers as CGC Mike tries to be.  The right pressure in the right volume, as opposed to just complaints, is what is needed to push a response in today's corporate world where companies look at customers as commodities and necessary evils rather than taking pride in how they serve the people who actually provide the money that pays their salaries.

Unfortunately I do not have any slabs with enough moxie for the task.

I apologize for the length of post - but wanted to get it out of my head and into words before it was gone!

I wish I had anything attention grabbing enough to do that with eBay. 

100% agree though this needs more spreading and awareness, but the problem is the cgc related boards are filled with fanboys who are just going to dismiss it and not even come and look at this post. 

On the cgc subreddit somebody posted about this yesterday and it got downvoted into the negative, finally up to a whopping three upvotes. It was even pointed out by somebody that Rich Henn weighed in, got responses of information from this board not being of value because it's an official post...lolwut? So people are commenting on an extremely prominent post with photos and evidence but because it's on this board they won't look at it? 

Another guy saying he got a hundred books back recently and only one was bent so it's obviously extremely rare and not happening. The internet phenomenon of just being willfully obtuse and willfully ignorant and wanting to argue by default is such a problem. 

This needs to get spread to the bigger YouTube channels or all of them small or big. I'm going to reach out to a couple that I've spoken to before and see if they are aware of it. They deal largely in modern slabs so they might be interested. Doesn't take much more than shooting a message with this link in it.

 

The threat of what will happen if you talk about competitors is kind of ridiculous, considering the competitors allow posts both positive and negative about cgc on their official boards. If cgc is the top of the heap for 25 years and they're made up of collectors who love and care about us what do they have to worry about some underdog being mentioned here and there?

Edited Friday at 03:03 PM by lollyclown

[DanJD]

On 9/13/2024 at 9:19 AM, lollyclown said:

The threat of what will happen if you talk about competitors is kind of ridiculous, considering the competitors allow posts both positive and negative about cgc on their official boards. If cgc is the top of the heap for 25 years and they're made up of collectors who love and care about us what do they have to worry about some underdog being mentioned here and there?

And if they truly care they wouldn’t have ignored it for at least 5 months, continue to damage people’s collectibles, and deny doing any damage to this day. It’s like saying “Sorry, Not Sorry”.  The fact people have to pay again to have their book reslabbed due to CGCs faulty product is insane.  At a minimum they should offer to reslab any book bent for free, and they should quietly offer compensation to those that have damage that impacted the grade.  Anyone that defends their stance is jeopardizing the long term value of all their own slabs and has no credibility as a seller.

We are still waiting to hear from someone confirming that new slabs are no longer being bent since they pinpointed the issue over a week ago and supposedly fixed it.

[Barrakuda]

BTW - the actual Overstreet verbiage for a 9.8 grade, which ostensibly CGC grading based off of, is:

9.8 - NEAR MINT/MINT (NM/MT): Nearly perfect in every way with only minor imperfections that keep it from the next higher grade. Only subtle bindery or printing defects are allowed. Cover is flat with no surface wear. Inks are bright with high reflectivity and minimal fading. Corners are cut square and sharp. Small, inconspicuous, lightly penciled, stamped or inked arrival dates are acceptable as long as they are in an unobtrusive location. Spine is tight and flat. Staples must be original, generally centered and clean with no rust. Paper is white, supple and fresh. Only the slightest interior tears are allowed.

[0r0d]

On 9/13/2024 at 7:19 AM, lollyclown said:

The threat of what will happen if you talk about competitors is kind of ridiculous, considering the competitors allow posts both positive and negative about cgc on their official boards. If cgc is the top of the heap for 25 years and they're made up of collectors who love and care about us what do they have to worry about some underdog being mentioned here and there?

If CGC was as diligent about their quality control and customer service as they are about censoring this forum and blocking people who dare to mention their competitors or god-forbid post an image of a non-CGC slab, they'd be a truly remarkable company.

Unfortunately, their replies to my complaints that they have damaged my books amount to two options for me, I can either: a) give them more money to press and reholder my books, with the free option for them to possibly lower my grade and further damage my books, or b) I can go pound sand.

With this high level of quality and customer support, guess to which company I WONT be sending the 100 books I have waiting to be graded?

Edited Friday at 04:32 PM by 0r0d

[0r0d]

On 9/13/2024 at 8:23 AM, Barrakuda said:

BTW - the actual Overstreet verbiage for a 9.8 grade, which ostensibly CGC grading based off of, is:

9.8 - NEAR MINT/MINT (NM/MT): Nearly perfect in every way with only minor imperfections that keep it from the next higher grade. Only subtle bindery or printing defects are allowed. Cover is flat with no surface wear. Inks are bright with high reflectivity and minimal fading. Corners are cut square and sharp. Small, inconspicuous, lightly penciled, stamped or inked arrival dates are acceptable as long as they are in an unobtrusive location. Spine is tight and flat. Staples must be original, generally centered and clean with no rust. Paper is white, supple and fresh. Only the slightest interior tears are allowed.

CGC's crack team of experts beg to differ.  In response to my images of a 1/4" bend on the spine of one of my 9.8 books:

Quote

Our team has reviewed the images provided, and want to advise that a small stress line, like in the pictures provided, is acceptable for a book graded as a 9.8, and will only prevent the submission from grading as a 9.9 or higher.

Of course they also would not agree to press and reholder my book and guarantee the same grade.  So... I'm starting to think they might be somewhat less than 100% truthful with me.

[LordRahl]

On 9/13/2024 at 5:48 AM, Barrakuda said:

Wider visibility is what is most needed to apply the pressure required for an appropriate response.  The volume of squeaky wheels making noise in comparison to the size of their customer base overall crossed with CGC's small percentage of revenue contribution to their parent company means that regardless of importance to us as a subset of customers, they really don't have the hard driving force to act quickly and explicitly, as evidenced by the length of time this has been happening and the substandard (to put it nicely) responses to-date.  Simply, more public visibility to the issue is what is needed to drive some sort of more concrete statement and/or action like correcting process and repressing+reholdering and even compensating customers with egregious damage to their books.  They would want to be publicly seen as remediating the problem for their customers.

An interesting scenario would be for someone(s) to put up a significant slabbed key of some sort they want to get out from under on Ebay for a 5-day auction and title it prominently as a Bendgate or Bananagate book - "please see photos...." and include some detail of the scenario in the description.  If it doesn't sell, keep relisting.  Consistently having impacted higher-caliber books there could potentially generate a snowball effect of listings and/or visibility.

Then it's not just some spread of Youtube channels and forums with less reach due to their very focused audiences, since the majority of collectors likely aren't on these platforms.  It instead becomes a prominent posting of an obviously compromised item for sale on a primary distribution platform for their product.  That's the kind of thing that gains more eyes.  Imagine if something like that goes viral within the collector community - and that kind of posting has that potential, especially if there are multiples.

I want CGC to be better.  I want them to be successful.  I want to be able to trust them in terms of company, services, and product.  I want their entire staff to be as helpful and concerned about their customers as CGC Mike tries to be.  The right pressure in the right volume, as opposed to just complaints, is what is needed to push a response in today's corporate world where companies look at customers as commodities and necessary evils rather than taking pride in how they serve the people who actually provide the money that pays their salaries.

Unfortunately I do not have any slabs with enough moxie for the task.

I apologize for the length of post - but wanted to get it out of my head and into words before it was gone!

While I agree 100% with you, given that this is mainly contained to moderns, the only thing I can think of that would meet the criteria would be a 9.9 or 10 of a modern key like New Mutants 98 or NYX 3. Good luck getting the owner of something like that, if there is one that is damaged, to do what you suggest. 

[Stefan_W]

Two more people picked up their books that I pressed so they could send them through something else so running total is now at four.