Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 27 27

[DanJD]

I stopped at my LCS yesterday.  They had a new mutants 87 9.8 for sale for $500 with a cert# starting with 44.  It had color breaking spine ticks along the whole spine.  That book won’t sell. This is for sure bigger than they are trying to make it be

[electricprune]

.

Edited Monday at 05:30 PM by electricprune
Accidental repost

[DanJD]

On 9/23/2024 at 12:28 PM, uncannyjames said:

I did. I told them they were losing a customer with a decision like that. Nothing changed, so they have lost a customer.

They don’t care about losing one customer, but if you tell them you’re going to the next Con and standing in front of their booth with your books to show people, that might hit their pocket books more and catch their attention.  Take pictures to social media too.  

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 9/23/2024 at 1:28 PM, DanJD said:

I stopped at my LCS yesterday.  They had a new mutants 87 9.8 for sale for $500 with a cert# starting with 44.  It had color breaking spine ticks along the whole spine.  That book won’t sell. This is for sure bigger than they are trying to make it be

Would you LCS allow you to take pics to share?

[DanJD]

On 9/23/2024 at 1:35 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Would you LCS allow you to take pics to share?

If I go back sometime soon, I’ll ask.  I didn’t think to snap a picture. With as many pictures floating around, I don’t think it’s a question of if it’s happening anymore.  I think at this point people are looking for pictures to confirm if it’s still happening.  

[MadGenius]

A list of lies told by CGC since the start of "banana-gate":

1. The problem was due to a small batch of compromised inner wells that have since been discarded.

2. The curve in the inner well is normal.

3. The curve in the inner well isn't damaging books.

4. The problem is due to the size of the inner well being used and has now been resolved.

5. We care about our customers.

 

Am I missing any?

[uncannyjames]

On 9/23/2024 at 3:24 PM, MadGenius said:

A list of lies told by CGC since the start of "banana-gate":

1. The problem was due to a small batch of compromised inner wells that have since been discarded.

2. The curve in the inner well is normal.

3. The curve in the inner well isn't damaging books.

4. The problem is due to the size of the inner well being used and has now been resolved.

5. We care about our customers.

 

Am I missing any?

And the truths as I see them (others may disagree, to each their own)...

1. The problem was due to not adequately testing our new slab sealing process with our inner wells.
2. The curve in the inner wells was unexpected.
3. The curve in the inner wells is adding stress to the spine which may damage books. And if it hasn't damaged the book yet, it probably will over time sitting in the slab with constant pressure on the spine.
4. We're starting to use a different inner well, but we aren't 100% sure if this will fix the issue.
5. We care about our bottom line. Period.

Edited Monday at 08:24 PM by uncannyjames

[MadGenius]

On 9/23/2024 at 4:20 PM, uncannyjames said:

And the truths as I see them (others may disagree, to each their own)...

1. The problem was due to not adequately testing our new slab sealing process with our inner wells.
2. The curve in the inner wells was unexpected.
3. The curve in the inner wells is adding stress to the spine which may damage books. And if it hasn't damaged the book yet, it probably will over time sitting in the slab with constant pressure on the spine.
4. We're starting to use a different inner well, but we aren't 100% sure if this will fix the issue.
5. We care about our bottom line. Period.

Jokes on them. Their unwillingness to take responsibility and implement changes to actually fix the problem will be impacting their bottom line for many years to come. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 9/23/2024 at 2:50 PM, DanJD said:

If I go back sometime soon, I’ll ask.  I didn’t think to snap a picture. With as many pictures floating around, I don’t think it’s a question of if it’s happening anymore.  I think at this point people are looking for pictures to confirm if it’s still happening.  

I was mostly asking because if it's graded at 9.8 and there are multiple color-breaking spine tics, which would certainly not be allowable in 9.8, it's more clear evidence that CGC's claim that the bends don't damage the book are BS. Also, would be nice to look up the pics that CGC took

Edited Monday at 09:22 PM by GeeksAreMyPeeps
typo

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 9/23/2024 at 3:24 PM, MadGenius said:

A list of lies told by CGC since the start of "banana-gate":

1. The problem was due to a small batch of compromised inner wells that have since been discarded.

2. The curve in the inner well is normal.

3. The curve in the inner well isn't damaging books.

4. The problem is due to the size of the inner well being used and has now been resolved.

5. We care about our customers.

 

Am I missing any?

What is allowable on a 9.8

[DanJD]

On 9/23/2024 at 4:20 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I was mostly asking because if it's graded at 9.8 and there are multiple color-breaking spine tics, which would certainly not be allowable in 9.8, it's more clear evidence that CGC's claim that the bends don't damage the book are BS. Also, would be nice to look up the pics that CGC took

I get it.  I just didn’t think of it at the time.  Mine was damaged with color breaks which is enough proof for me.  I posted the before, after CGC scan, and post delivery pics a few times.  CGC can’t explain that away.

[Rhett Christopher]

I picked up 7 books that got graded as a 9.8 by CGC.

These books were hand delivered by LCS to CGC in the early part of August and I picked them up from my LCS on 9-22-24.

All banana in the 7 cases.

2 books suffered a spine tick which appears to be due to the bow of the book. The tick happens where the bow is.

The third book shows an indention (stress mark) by the spine but hasn't become a spine tick at this point.

The other 4 books have thicker cover and while bowed in the case shows no stress crease to the spine.

These are moderns and were not submitted by me with a spine tick.

My Wolverine #36 (2023) has a spine tick with what appears to be color breaking graded at a 9.8.

X-Men #27 (Momoko) (2023) is bowed, spine tick and graded at a 9.8

I have other books in the past I've had CGC grade for me and none of the 9.8 books I have received back (graded) have a spine tick in them and are not warped (concave/banana'd) inside of the case.

I took pictures of the books prior to sending in to be graded and the before pictures I have clearly show no spine tick on the cover and now within the case there is a spine tick and the book is bowed inside of the case. 

I wanted to sell the Wolverine graded book but I cannot now because of the visible spine tick and the grade is not accurate now.

I could have sold that book anywhere from $140 to $180 at a graded 9.8 but I cannot in good conscience sell that book at a 9.8 and claim it's a 9.8 when in reality it is not and CGC damaged my book and cost me a lost sale of at least $140.

Raw before spine tick

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sg6nizJvo9nN7NYEA

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TJk7T5jwnmBWEdc69

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9TczcbuT4pit9Wrv7

 

Graded 9.8 banana/spine tick

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1Ba1rsMWwcbgdw3i9

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JZucgPsZBtiqXfpC6

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hhev2VQX9wEMqxsV7

[Rhett Christopher]

What I don't understand is how can CGC get away with not taking responsibility for basically ruining people's books they submit that have zero spine ticks and get graded at a 9.8, encapsulated and sent back to the customer and when the customer gets his graded book back it says 9.8 but the book is curved inside the case and has a spine tick caused by the curvature of the book/encapsulation process.

How is that?

It happened on 7 of my books I received back on 9-22-24.

All seven books came back as 9.8 bananas and 2 came back with spine ticks within the curved bow of the book.

Very frustrated with CGC!

CGC should at least refund the cost or re-holder the books correctly at no cost.

[DanJD]

On 9/23/2024 at 5:24 PM, Rhett Christopher said:

I picked up 7 books that got graded as a 9.8 by CGC.

These books were hand delivered by LCS to CGC in the early part of August and I picked them up from my LCS on 9-22-24.

All banana in the 7 cases.

2 books suffered a spine tick which appears to be due to the bow of the book. The tick happens where the bow is.

The third book shows an indention (stress mark) by the spine but hasn't become a spine tick at this point.

The other 4 books have thicker cover and while bowed in the case shows no stress crease to the spine.

These are moderns and were not submitted by me with a spine tick.

My Wolverine #36 (2023) has a spine tick with what appears to be color breaking graded at a 9.8.

X-Men #27 (Momoko) (2023) is bowed, spine tick and graded at a 9.8

I have other books in the past I've had CGC grade for me and none of the 9.8 books I have received back (graded) have a spine tick in them and are not warped (concave/banana'd) inside of the case.

I took pictures of the books prior to sending in to be graded and the before pictures I have clearly show no spine tick on the cover and now within the case there is a spine tick and the book is bowed inside of the case. 

I wanted to sell the Wolverine graded book but I cannot now because of the visible spine tick and the grade is not accurate now.

I could have sold that book anywhere from $140 to $180 at a graded 9.8 but I cannot in good conscience sell that book at a 9.8 and claim it's a 9.8 when in reality it is not and CGC damaged my book and cost me a lost sale of at least $140.

Raw before spine tick

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sg6nizJvo9nN7NYEA

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TJk7T5jwnmBWEdc69

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9TczcbuT4pit9Wrv7

 

Graded 9.8 banana/spine tick

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1Ba1rsMWwcbgdw3i9

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JZucgPsZBtiqXfpC6

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hhev2VQX9wEMqxsV7

That’s terrible.  Sorry.  Yet CGC (and the same few people) claim it’s not possible for the warped inner well to cause that damage.  It’s seems obvious to me it did.  I agree they should be on the hook for the cost of the reholder as well as the damages caused.  But hey, CGC has the best label designs…

edit:  at a minimum they should re-press, re-grade and re-holder for free and then refund all original costs paid for grading due to the damages.  More serious books damaged will need additional compensation beyond that even.

Edited Tuesday at 02:03 AM by DanJD

[0r0d]

On 9/23/2024 at 3:24 PM, Rhett Christopher said:

I picked up 7 books that got graded as a 9.8 by CGC.

These books were hand delivered by LCS to CGC in the early part of August and I picked them up from my LCS on 9-22-24.

All banana in the 7 cases.

2 books suffered a spine tick which appears to be due to the bow of the book. The tick happens where the bow is.

The third book shows an indention (stress mark) by the spine but hasn't become a spine tick at this point.

The other 4 books have thicker cover and while bowed in the case shows no stress crease to the spine.

These are moderns and were not submitted by me with a spine tick.

My Wolverine #36 (2023) has a spine tick with what appears to be color breaking graded at a 9.8.

X-Men #27 (Momoko) (2023) is bowed, spine tick and graded at a 9.8

I have other books in the past I've had CGC grade for me and none of the 9.8 books I have received back (graded) have a spine tick in them and are not warped (concave/banana'd) inside of the case.

I took pictures of the books prior to sending in to be graded and the before pictures I have clearly show no spine tick on the cover and now within the case there is a spine tick and the book is bowed inside of the case. 

I wanted to sell the Wolverine graded book but I cannot now because of the visible spine tick and the grade is not accurate now.

I could have sold that book anywhere from $140 to $180 at a graded 9.8 but I cannot in good conscience sell that book at a 9.8 and claim it's a 9.8 when in reality it is not and CGC damaged my book and cost me a lost sale of at least $140.

Raw before spine tick

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sg6nizJvo9nN7NYEA

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TJk7T5jwnmBWEdc69

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9TczcbuT4pit9Wrv7

 

Graded 9.8 banana/spine tick

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1Ba1rsMWwcbgdw3i9

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JZucgPsZBtiqXfpC6

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hhev2VQX9wEMqxsV7

This is pretty clear evidence, and very close to what I saw with my 9.8 prescreen and the books I got back.

You could contact CGC, but honestly I would not expect anything from them.  My exchanges with their customer service resulted in them offering me ZERO in terms of fixes or compensation for the damage.  They just, once again, tried to gaslight me and suggested that I can send my books in and PAY THEM to get them pressed and bent/slabbed once again.  No guarantee of keeping those 9.8s, of course.  

[0r0d]

On 9/23/2024 at 5:05 PM, Rhett Christopher said:

What I don't understand is how can CGC get away with not taking responsibility for basically ruining people's books they submit that have zero spine ticks and get graded at a 9.8, encapsulated and sent back to the customer and when the customer gets his graded book back it says 9.8 but the book is curved inside the case and has a spine tick caused by the curvature of the book/encapsulation process.

How is that?

They get away with it because they can.  I'm sure all the people on this forum amount to a rounding error in their balance sheets.  As far as they're concerned we can all go pound sand and yell at the clouds all we want.

It's likely only a class-action lawsuit, and the accompanying bad publicity, will incentivize them to change their ways.

[0r0d]

On 9/23/2024 at 7:01 PM, DanJD said:

at a minimum they should re-press, re-grade and re-holder for free and then refund all original costs paid for grading due to the damages.  More serious books damaged will need additional compensation beyond that even.

Not enough.  When they re-grade, it's entirely possible that you will get a LOWER grade.  Remember that a lot of these 9.8's are now at most 9.6s.   They should, at that point, either refund the difference in value from the old grade to the new one, or keep the lower-grade book and give you the FMV of the book with the old, higher grade.

[wombat]

On 9/23/2024 at 7:34 AM, CGC Mike said:

The ones back in May were identified and removed from production.

So the ones that were removed a few weeks ago was a second batch that were identified as defective? How confident should people be about a third batch popping up?

[SLABAHOLICS]

Got books back from the Jim Lee signing, they're still bending your books folks.

[OJ Pimpson]

This has probably been mentioned but CGC absolutely has to implement policies similar to what PSA does when checking in cards, specifically taking photographs of every item in a submission. 
 

they already take photos of the end product