Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 27 27

[wombat]

CGC turned this into a revenue stream. Its both horrifying and weirdly impressive at the same time.  

[Rhett Christopher]

On 9/26/2024 at 6:04 PM, Berkfam54 said:

Here’s my book reholdered and returned. I’m currently editing the video for my YouTube. Unreal man. I’ve already sent an email back. This is completely unacceptable. This is an $800 book. 

 

This is the dilemma I am facing with 2-3 books out of 7 I got back from CGC this past weekend.

2 (9.8) books banana and color breaking spine tick in the bend (wasn't there before) and a third book - banana with a crease on the spine (9.8) but doesn't appear to be color breaking.

The other 5 books graded at 9.8 have the banana effect but no crease.

If I pop these out of the case, I'm looking at two books with a color breaking spine tick that wasn't there before.

A third problem book I will have to have pressed (because of the dented crease) and then submit it again and the rest of the five books that have the banana effect (but no crease) will probably end up the same way again or maybe worse if I submit them to CGC.

Since they were submitted through my LCS's account - I don't think CGC is going to do anything for me.

I asked my LCS to contact customer service about the matter.

CGC has damaged at least two books for me - and possibly a third book.

There's no way as these books sit in their case that they would have graded them a 9.8 before encapsulation - but yet that's what the case says that they are - a 9.8.

 

I think grading certain books is a great idea, but CGC as of late is really dropping the ball here.

My books weren't really expensive but in a 9.8 I could have sold each one around the $150 range and CGC took that opportunity away from me by their negligence.

Edited yesterday at 10:01 AM by Rhett Christopher
Spelling/grammar

[Barrakuda]

On 9/26/2024 at 10:30 PM, wombat said:

CGC turned this into a revenue stream. Its both horrifying and weirdly impressive at the same time.  

An interesting thought exercise that will appeal to the conspiracy theorist:

Initially this scenario of damaging books was certainly accidental.

After this much time has passed without a resolution, it is easy to think that it has become purposeful as an opportunity to generate significant revenue through damaging a collectible and then having the customer resubmit it repeatedly for additional profit by continuing to damage it, taking no responsibility, and charging for any attempt to remedy the issue they caused.  This then becomes not a series of one-offs, but a pattern.  And if it is purposeful - purposely damaging someone else's property is illegal.

So - what do you call a scheme in which someone engages in a pattern of illegal behavior to consistently generate a profit?

A racket.

Which means the activity would then be considered Racketeering, which would be subject to the RICO Act.

I don't believe this is what is going on, but the OP's statement triggered that thought process.

For those who have spoken out about a legal pressure, a class-action suit, one could argue that this scenario could also be considered for criminal charges if they want to take it down that path.

[miraclemet]

On 9/27/2024 at 9:11 AM, Barrakuda said:

An interesting thought exercise that will appeal to the conspiracy theorist:

Initially this scenario of damaging books was certainly accidental.

After this much time has passed without a resolution, it is easy to think that it has become purposeful as an opportunity to generate significant revenue through damaging a collectible and then having the customer resubmit it repeatedly for additional profit by continuing to damage it, taking no responsibility, and charging for any attempt to remedy the issue they caused.  This then becomes not a series of one-offs, but a pattern.  And if it is purposeful - purposely damaging someone else's property is illegal.

So - what do you call a scheme in which someone engages in a pattern of illegal behavior to consistently generate a profit?

A racket.

Which means the activity would then be considered Racketeering, which would be subject to the RICO Act.

I don't believe this is what is going on, but the OP's statement triggered that thought process.

For those who have spoken out about a legal pressure, a class-action suit, one could argue that this scenario could also be considered for criminal charges if they want to take it down that path.

one could assume that reholdering is (by percentages) their most profitable service (minimial investment, minimal time, minimal training)
The bowed well slabs will certainly boost the number of books that are being submitted for reholdering. 

[Berkfam54]

On 9/27/2024 at 8:11 AM, Barrakuda said:

An interesting thought exercise that will appeal to the conspiracy theorist:

Initially this scenario of damaging books was certainly accidental.

After this much time has passed without a resolution, it is easy to think that it has become purposeful as an opportunity to generate significant revenue through damaging a collectible and then having the customer resubmit it repeatedly for additional profit by continuing to damage it, taking no responsibility, and charging for any attempt to remedy the issue they caused.  This then becomes not a series of one-offs, but a pattern.  And if it is purposeful - purposely damaging someone else's property is illegal.

So - what do you call a scheme in which someone engages in a pattern of illegal behavior to consistently generate a profit?

A racket.

Which means the activity would then be considered Racketeering, which would be subject to the RICO Act.

I don't believe this is what is going on, but the OP's statement triggered that thought process.

For those who have spoken out about a legal pressure, a class-action suit, one could argue that this scenario could also be considered for criminal charges if they want to take it down that path.

Yeah I talked to a buddy of mine who is on here and basically we agreed there's going to be no resolution from CGC until they get sued. 

[Berkfam54]

Every CGC Unboxing I've seen in the last several months through today - people are getting banana books back STILL. I don't understand how this is still an issue. Why isn't CGC fixing this? 

[MadGenius]

@CGC Mike People who have received books back from CGC very recently are reporting that the curved inner well is still an issue. Either changing the inner wells being used didn't solve the problem OR CGC is still using the "pliable" smaller wells until the supply runs out. Which one is it? 

[Berkfam54]

On 9/27/2024 at 12:29 PM, MadGenius said:

@CGC Mike People who have received books back from CGC very recently are reporting that the curved inner well is still an issue. Either changing the inner wells being used didn't solve the problem OR CGC is still using the "pliable" smaller wells until the supply runs out. Which one is it? 

2 things are likely:

1) the new inner wells are still curved

2) the books are still curved from the previous inner wells as seen in the video below from Improve-Collecting Comics

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ObdAtvnVlg

 

[miraclemet]

On 9/27/2024 at 2:15 PM, Berkfam54 said:

2 things are likely:

1) the new inner wells are still curved

2) the books are still curved from the previous inner wells as seen in the video below from Improve-Collecting Comics

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ObdAtvnVlg

 

I wonder if long term horizontal storage might let gravity help let the books slowly uncurve... or would a press be reccomended for the bowed books being reholdered? 

[Stefan_W]

On 9/27/2024 at 2:35 PM, miraclemet said:

I wonder if long term horizontal storage might let gravity help let the books slowly uncurve... or would a press be reccomended for the bowed books being reholdered? 

I tested this a bit.

The inner well is hard plastic and stays in shape for at least weeks even after removal from the outer case and laid flat, so storing slabs horizontally will not accomplish much unless it is longer term (unsure of how long that would take since the inner well stuff has been going on for months so far). I dont have sensitive enough measuring to see if there is a very small amount of change in the bend over that time. 

The comics I took out from the inner well return to flat in minutes after removal from the inner well. This includes a book that was in a bent well for several months. I have only popped a few so far and all reacted the same way, but that is pretty small sample so I would not be surprised if someone along the way had a different experience. 

[newshane]

On 9/27/2024 at 11:18 AM, Berkfam54 said:

...there's going to be no resolution from CGC until they get sued. 

Perhaps they better start paying attention? Perhaps they should take real action and cut the excuses? 

Wheels may already be in motion....

 

[newshane]

On 9/27/2024 at 1:35 PM, miraclemet said:

I wonder if long term horizontal storage might let gravity help let the books slowly uncurve... or would a press be reccomended for the bowed books being reholdered? 

The "uncurving" would lead to damage just like the curving. 

My recommendation at this point is Gerber Mylars and fullbacks. 

[Yorick]

On 9/26/2024 at 2:40 PM, Berkfam54 said:

They didn't fix mine. All they did is slap it in a new case. Same creases that were NOT there before. 

But they came back as 9.8's?  See, no value loss!  They're still 9.8's!!

[0r0d]

 

[Rhett Christopher]

On 9/27/2024 at 3:28 PM, Yorick said:

But they came back as 9.8's?  See, no value loss!  They're still 9.8's!!

CGC may actually say that BUT to sell these banana slabs and banana slabs that exhibit a spine tick now (in which it didn't originally) would be a bad move because you may say a banana slabs is a 9.8 but I am not convinced that a banana slab that now exhibits a spine tick is a 9.8. 

In my case, my books didn't have that spine tick when I submitted them and now after slabbing it has a creased spine tick and it's still at 9.8? 

Quality control is severely lacking at CGC.

I'm just glad I took a detailed picture of my books before I sent them off.

[Atomic Rooster]

On 9/27/2024 at 2:24 PM, newshane said:

My recommendation at this point is Gerber Mylars and fullbacks. 

Speaking of that, what happened to Full Backs?  The last couple batches I picked up have been super flimsy compared to the older ones.  I believe they went from 42 pt to 35 pt and the difference is very noticeable.

[Homeboy32]

On 9/26/2024 at 5:39 PM, Berkfam54 said:

Books just came back from CGC. They STILL have the creases like before. I am pissed. 

Which is EXACTLY why I'm not sending my $700 book back in. It's a 9.6 and doesn't have any real damage. Has the same bend as your book. Just not worth it. My book is 48yrs old and recently slabbed. I have absolutely no idea how it was stored for the past 48 years. I highly doubt it was perfectly flat the entire time. I assume it was in a box with hundreds of other comics. This isn't an excuse for CGC's issue, but just going to accept it. Again, my book has no damage, just the bend.

[comeaux]

 

 

I’ll have to start posting in memes and emojis because the CGC Shoe Town clowns get butthurt and ban me for weeks at a time and also from specific threads. 

 

The truth hurts but what’s hilarious is the typical CGC bagpipe tarrhds with tinfoil hats blaming these CGC Peyronies slabs on a correction for newton rings wherein anyone with a contoured brain realizes these current CGC dumpster slabs were produced to prevent Zanny-slab syndrome, the old “swapgate”. 

 

COMICS MUST BE STORED FLAT, ANYTHING ELSE IS NONSENSICAL 

 

 

[newshane]

On 9/27/2024 at 7:21 PM, comeaux said:

...these CGC Peyronies slabs

 

 

LEGEND 

[Dave616]

On 9/25/2024 at 10:23 AM, Stefan_W said:

No. 

A picture of a tick is not the same as identifying the cause of that tick. A picture of a tick also does not demonstrate whether a tick is from "unpressing" (e.g., revealing a past flaw that was fixed) or is a new tick. If I showed you a picture of  a dent in my car bumper it does not prove what put that ding there.  

Based on testing it (which can be reproduced by anyone interested in doing so, by the way) it takes more than 4 mm to create new ticks. A bend of 4 mm can sometimes create stress in clean copies that can be spotted if you look really closely at a book. A bend of 4 mm can also "unpress" a book and reveal flaws that were corrected during the pressing process. A bend of 4 mm can make existing ticks look worse in books that are not clean copies. 

The more severe damage that we see in some instances is clearly none of these things which means it is has a cause other than the bend but is still related to what is happening now. I don't know what that cause is but my best guess is the extra space in the case that was meant to lessen newton ring issues freed up space that both allowed inner wells to bend, and allowed movement that leads to shaken comic syndrome. So if you think of it in terms of stats the extra room in the case acts as an antecedent variable. 

Good solutions follow identifying the correctly issues/questions. This is why I have spent so much time and effort trying to sort out the cause rather than jumping to conclusions after seeing effects.  

Why do you talk out of both sides of your mouth?