Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 25 25

[LordRahl]

On 8/30/2024 at 10:28 AM, MAY1979 said:

I still think they are in way too deep.  If they do fix it, that totally invalidates their statements about it being normal. Then they are open to potential ramification$.  The only way to prevent that is to keep damaging books at minimum at same rate they have been.

If you are correct, I do not think this will blow over like other scandals. Swapgate, Ewert, etc. blew over and people forgot very quickly because CGC relatively quickly "rectified" the issues. Whether or not they actually rectified them is somewhat debatable but at the end of the day, irrelevant. The perception was that they fixed it and that's really all that matters. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:16 PM, Ryan. said:

When CGC was caught ostensibly selling grades, first to a publisher (Bad Idea), and then later to a dealer (the Acetate nonsense), that SHOULD have been a big scandal that undermined their whole ethics in grading ethos. However, some time passed and everyone stopped caring, as I expect to happen once this warped inner well issue is eventually behind us.

I agree with you about the UF4 book. But the Bad Idea book was clearly a joke product. I imagine the whole thing was done mainly for marketing (especially since CGC had to ask Bad Idea to stop selling the books). You could say it gave CGC a bad look, but I think it was clear from what was being encapsulated what was going on.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:31 PM, LordRahl said:

If you are correct, I do not think this will blow over like other scandals. Swapgate, Ewert, etc. blew over and people forgot very quickly because CGC relatively quickly "rectified" the issues. Whether or not they actually rectified them is somewhat debatable but at the end of the day, irrelevant. The perception was that they fixed it and that's really all that matters. 

The issue is that it will be *immediately* clear that the issue hasn't been fixed if people get back damaged books. With the reholder scam, it will take some time a detective work to reveal if it hasn't been fixed.

[MAY1979]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:31 PM, LordRahl said:

If you are correct, I do not think this will blow over like other scandals. Swapgate, Ewert, etc. blew over and people forgot very quickly because CGC relatively quickly "rectified" the issues. Whether or not they actually rectified them is somewhat debatable but at the end of the day, irrelevant. The perception was that they fixed it and that's really all that matters. 

As collector I hope I'm wrong.

Logically to the Execs in Blackstone who have CGC under their auspices here are some plausible scenarios:

1) No changes - meaning the damaging of books continues. Bonus's are decided and those Execs polish their resumes and walk into another cushy position at a larger Fortune 500 firm than Blackstone. This the next Execs problem.

2) No changes - meaning the damaging of books continues. Bonus's are decided and those Execs plan the sell off CGC before profit dips enough for shareholder to potentially notice.  In effect the next firms problem.

3) No changes - meaning the damaging of books continues. Deny, Deny Deny and as with other scandals this goes away. After all look at the lack of awareness or cognitive dissonance in other threads here - also the large submitters who continue to submit unimpeded and continue to sell to the uninformed. The sheep then absorb and regurgitate the ridiculous message that the damage is normal.

 

Based on the Socials I've seen, message is spreading and vast amount folks are not happy. The question is, are they tip of iceberg or not? If the California folks are smart, which they may not be, they can Marketing/Social Media Blitz this issue as their go-live date approaches. CGC cannot defend or say the matter is fixed as to do so it renders their previous statements as falsehoods thus opening themselves to potential large ramification$.

Edited August 30 by MAY1979

[DanJD]

On 8/30/2024 at 12:55 PM, MAY1979 said:

As collector I hope I'm wrong.

Logically to the Execs in Blackstone who have CGC under their auspices here are some plausible scenarios:

1) No changes - meaning the damaging of books continues. Bonus's are decided and those Execs polish their resumes and walk into another cushy position at a larger Fortune 500 firm than Blackstone. This the next Execs problem.

2) No changes - meaning the damaging of books continues. Bonus's are decided and those Execs plan the sell off CGC before profit dips enough for shareholder to potentially notice.  In effect the next firms problem.

3) No changes - meaning the damaging of books continues. Deny, Deny Deny and as with other scandals this goes away. After all look at the lack of awareness or cognitive dissonance in other threads here - also the large submitters who continue to submit unimpeded and continue to sell to the uninformed. The sheep then absorb and regurgitate the ridiculous message that the damage is normal.

 

Based on the Socials I've seen, message is spreading and vast amount folks are not happy. The question is, are they tip of iceberg or not? If the California folks are smart, which they may not be, they can Marketing/Social Media Blitz this issue as their go-live date approaches. CGC cannot defend or say the matter is fixed as to do so it renders their previous statements as falsehoods thus opening themselves to potential large ramification$.

I am not sure what the total annual revenue of CGC’s comic division is let alone from just the modern tier books, but I am going to guess it is not large enough to have a meaningful impact to Blackstone’s bottom line.  It’s hard to believe this gets ignored and they indefinitely damage books.  Fixing it quietly and playing dumb about the last 5-8 months is more probable in my opinion.

[wiparker824]

On 8/30/2024 at 11:25 AM, DanJD said:

Fixing it quietly and playing dumb about the last 5-8 months is more probable in my opinion.

100% agree. 

[Yorick]

On 8/27/2024 at 2:40 PM, bc said:

This one suggests that the "bowing" is more parabolic than other pics shown thus far in this thread.

-bc

 

My Comiclink order arrived yesterday.  Most books of my wins/order were in the older cases or the competitor's cases.  I did have a Heavy Metal magazine in the order that has the above illustrated parabola on the heat-formed inner well backside portion.  Keep in mind that the front inner well is not subjected to vacuum forming.

Each of the book's corners are sitting snug, and the magazine will be fine if I keep it stored spine downward.  If I lay the CGC'd cased magazine flat face-up, over time I'm certain the center of the book will warp downward.  I tried to take some pictures last night, but without proper lighting it is hard to see.  Maybe I'll try and take some new photos today...

[electricprune]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:22 PM, LordRahl said:

Not even a small handful, I believe it's just one book. Which could be a complete fluke that is unrelated to how the moderns are being bent. All reports on here and people that I've talked to privately, along with what I've personally gotten back, pretty much all report the same thing which is non-moderns aren't affected. 

You very well may be right. I believe I have seen 1 pre ‘75 book on YouTube. I’ll have to try to find it.

Either way, this is a Modern Tier issue.

[Ryan.]

On 8/30/2024 at 2:31 PM, wiparker824 said:

On 8/30/2024 at 2:25 PM, DanJD said:

Fixing it quietly and playing dumb about the last 5-8 months is more probable in my opinion.

100% agree. 

This is most likely what will happen.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/30/2024 at 2:25 PM, DanJD said:

I am not sure what the total annual revenue of CGC’s comic division is let alone from just the modern tier books, but I am going to guess it is not large enough to have a meaningful impact to Blackstone’s bottom line.  It’s hard to believe this gets ignored and they indefinitely damage books.  Fixing it quietly and playing dumb about the last 5-8 months is more probable in my opinion.

If the issue is arising from a slight mismatch in the size of the inner holder compared to then inner well (with either the former being slightly too big, or the latter being slightly too small) on a batch of materials, then there is a big unresolved question as to how many "bad" product they ordered. I imagine that they would be unwilling to simply trash the supplies that are causing the problem, but I wouldn't be surprised, assumign they still have a lot on hand, if they decided to put those aside, and then just use small amounts here and there going forward, until they're all gone. Probably on new customer orders, who maybe don't know what to look for when they first start submitting, or on very low value orders or infrequent customer orders.

[MAY1979]

On 8/30/2024 at 3:13 PM, electricprune said:

You very well may be right. I believe I have seen 1 pre ‘75 book on YouTube. I’ll have to try to find it.

Either way, this is a Modern Tier issue.

+ Magazines as @Yorick mentioned 3 posts above from this one.  

  

On 8/30/2024 at 3:08 PM, Yorick said:

My Comiclink order arrived yesterday.  Most books of my wins/order were in the older cases or the competitor's cases.  I did have a Heavy Metal magazine in the order that has the above illustrated parabola on the heat-formed inner well backside portion.  Keep in mind that the front inner well is not subjected to vacuum forming.

Each of the book's corners are sitting snug, and the magazine will be fine if I keep it stored spine downward.  If I lay the CGC'd cased magazine flat face-up, over time I'm certain the center of the book will warp downward.  I tried to take some pictures last night, but without proper lighting it is hard to see.  Maybe I'll try and take some new photos today...

Personally I'd return it and if they refuse to accept that, then file a dispute for a charge back. My guess is the dispute wont be needed, they seem smart enough to realize losing future business and negative social posts over a single Magazine is not a good tactic.

If the Auction Houses start to feel some pain perhaps they'll actually grow a pair and demand CGC fix it and or remunerate them.

Edited August 30 by MAY1979

[electricprune]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:13 PM, MAY1979 said:

+ Magazines as @Yorick mentioned 3 posts above from this one.  

Yeah, I missed that.

[MAY1979]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:10 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

If the issue is arising from a slight mismatch in the size of the inner holder compared to then inner well (with either the former being slightly too big, or the latter being slightly too small) on a batch of materials, then there is a big unresolved question as to how many "bad" product they ordered. I imagine that they would be unwilling to simply trash the supplies that are causing the problem, but I wouldn't be surprised, assumign they still have a lot on hand, if they decided to put those aside, and then just use small amounts here and there going forward, until they're all gone. Probably on new customer orders, who maybe don't know what to look for when they first start submitting, or on very low value orders or infrequent customer orders.

If your hypothesis is correct that is some next level evil!  Means even if the issue is mostly resolved at some future point it still won't be safe to purchase from any outlet in which the buyer does not hold all the power. 

Hey Dealers, auction houses and other various and sundry Comic Book sellers, "no return policy" = NO SALE!

Edited August 30 by MAY1979

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:15 PM, MAY1979 said:

If your hypothesis is correct that is some next level evil!  Means even if the issue is mostly resolved at some future point it still won't be safe to purchase from any outlet in which the buyer does not hold all the power.

Perhaps. As you've pointed out, investors don't like to lose money on their investment. Trashing defective product is a total loss on the cost to buy that defective product. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a supplier issue. That could mean the issue could arise again in the future, if the manufacturer of the slabs is doing something to produce faulty product.

[EastEnd1]

@0r0d... I would delete that Youtube post if I were you.  Don't think CGC Mike is going to like it.

 

Edited August 30 by EastEnd1

[Atomic Rooster]

On 8/30/2024 at 3:13 PM, MAY1979 said:

If the Auction Houses start to feel some pain perhaps they'll actually grow a pair and demand CGC fix it and or remunerate them.

Another take:  I recently consigned a ton of raw books with a major auction house and many of them were/are being sent in to CCS -> CGC before heading to auction (some of which are currently listed).  As far as I know, I didn't have a say in the matter.  This could be one reason why you are seeing so many newer serial numbers in current auctions as someone here posted.  My guess is that they aren't turning away any profitable opportunities regardless of the current situation.

[MAY1979]

On 8/30/2024 at 5:32 PM, EastEnd1 said:

 

I would delete that post if I were you.  Don't think CGC Mike is going to like it.

 

You made that more difficult by quoting it

[EastEnd1]

On 8/30/2024 at 6:30 PM, MAY1979 said:

You made that more difficult by quoting it

Problem solved.

[CGC Mike]

On 8/30/2024 at 5:32 PM, EastEnd1 said:

@0r0d... I would delete that Youtube post if I were you.  Don't think CGC Mike is going to like it.

 

I didn't.  I also didn't like the second CBCS image he posted after the fact.  

[EastEnd1]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:12 PM, CGC Mike said:

I didn't.  I also didn't like the second CBCS image he posted after the fact.  

Yep... I tried to warn him and he responded by doubling down on it...