Filling a claim at the USPS

[chromium]

I've done it a few times on low $ books and didn't have any problems, but I wouldn't even think about it with high $ books.

 

This is a key statement, Brian. I use the GPM envelope on Chromium's crahp comics which are easily replaceable but even if they got damaged like Kermit's, I'd hook chromium up with the refund - after all they are cheap books

 

Big dollar books = boxed and mandatory insurance

 

where's the love ?

 

[embarrassing lack of self control]

[Darthdiesel]

Kermit,

 

after seeing those scans, there is a strong argument for the damage occurring in transit. However, after seeing this pic:

 

 

I'd have to conclude that if you had 5 books sandwiched between two pieces of cardboard above, that it is nowhere near enough protective packing for international transit for comics of high value. That comic filling has to be immobilized so it doesn't slide. There's plenty of space in the GPM to allow for more protective material, more boards, plastic bags, bubble wrap - after all, weight doesn't matter up to 4 lbs for this global priority flat rate.

 

I don't know if Chromium's saved any pics of the GPM envelopes he's gotten from me, but he's told many of horror stories of obliterated envelopes arriving at his door, but thanking the Waffle gods that the inside packaging was intact, time capsule ready, even

 

Good luck with the USPS or La Poste on getting them to pony up. It may be available on Global Priority as it is a premium service, but honestly, be patient as it WILL take weeks to resolve. And possibly not in your favor (as that amount of packing material, or lack thereof works heavily against your case). Emphasize, highlight the pics of the corner abrasions on the envelope and match it up to the corners of the books and backing board on the complaint form. It may sway USPS/La Poste to admit to some of the respnsibility for this disaster. But I don't think they are going to bail out the seller fully from not packing properly. Forumites, hope this is a valuable lesson in packing high grade hard to replace big $$$ books in boxes and insured.

[OldGuy]

I've done it a few times on low $ books and didn't have any problems, but I wouldn't even think about it with high $ books.

 

This is a key statement, Brian. I use the GPM envelope on Chromium's crahp comics which are easily replaceable but even if they got damaged like Kermit's, I'd hook chromium up with the refund - after all they are cheap books

 

Or like a Marvel Zombies set.......

[Darthdiesel]

where's the love ?

 

[embarrassing lack of self control]

 

The love is right here when you have folks send their books thru me to ship to you. It's like Xmas! I use it to upgrade all my worse condition copies and send my inferior beaters your way. So if anything does happen in transit, I don't feel bad at all!... Can't wait to see what Aces is sending...

[Darthdiesel]

I've done it a few times on low $ books and didn't have any problems, but I wouldn't even think about it with high $ books.

 

This is a key statement, Brian. I use the GPM envelope on Chromium's crahp comics which are easily replaceable but even if they got damaged like Kermit's, I'd hook chromium up with the refund - after all they are cheap books

 

Or like a Marvel Zombies set.......

 

Oh yeah...umm...about that... I'm going to be having some car trouble soon...

[OldGuy]

I've done it a few times on low $ books and didn't have any problems, but I wouldn't even think about it with high $ books.

 

This is a key statement, Brian. I use the GPM envelope on Chromium's crahp comics which are easily replaceable but even if they got damaged like Kermit's, I'd hook chromium up with the refund - after all they are cheap books

 

Or like a Marvel Zombies set.......

 

Oh yeah...umm...about that... I'm going to be having some car trouble soon...

 

[ComicSupply]

Seeing as this post is completely about me I figured I would try to cut this one off at the head and just tell the story as it really is.

 

This package was sent the same way I sent roughly 50-100 a week. The comics were placed in opposite directions with standard boards, wrapped and then the cardboard was put around the edges and taped with the stickers.

 

Once the item was packed up it was placed into the Global Flat Rate envelope and the envelope was taped up. The package was completely secure and I gave it the shake test to make sure nothing moved. All was good so it was shipped.

 

Now, the important thing here is

 

1. We packed this the same way we have packed hundreds of other orders with no losses or complaints.

 

2. The option Kermit chose which was Global Priority does not allow insurance to France.

 

3. The value was declared at $30 by Kermit's request because he didn't want to pay taxes on it.

 

4. If we shipped it Airmail we could of insured it but the postmaster has suggested to me that if damage occured it would be hard to approve the claim unless it was declared (see #3 above)for the same amount insured for.

 

5. Other mailing options were presented.

 

Now, upon hearing about the damage and seeing the pictures I can clearly see this package was mishandled and damaged by the post office. I took the same precautions on packing this item as I have hundreds of times before. It is my belief that the damage was clearly the responsibility of the post office and not our packing.

 

If it was our packing then this wouldn't be the only one that has happened. Many of you have ordered comics from me and not a single buyer has complained about poor packing. I believe that this package had such force exerted on it that even another piece of pieces of cardboard (or bubble wrap as Kermit has privately suggested) would of helped. This package was subjected to at least 50-60 psi on that corner at least once. The corner shattered and dented the comic books. The comic books didn't move until the corner was smashed and gravity carried those comics into the ground with the cardboard surrounding it.

 

Now, I certainly didn't want to end this on a bad note with Kermit. I told him that I didn't believe the fault lied with our packaging and because I certainly wouldn't want to be treated badly I suggested the following.

 

I suggested that we pursue some sort of compensation from the post office and that I would gladly and happily send him $100 credit to use at another date. I was saddened this happened and Kermit had commented that money wasn't something he had a lot of so I figured maybe this would soften the blow. Whatever the post office would give was good, and with the $100 credit I thought this was more than fair from me. In the end he was very panicky and rude about the $100 credit so I basically retracted it and said whatever the post office gives you is what your getting.

 

On another note, a few days after our last PM he did try the Paypal refund policy amidst him being told by me that I was handling the complaint paperwork that may or may not involve money being returned.

 

He wasn't at fault and I believe I wasn't at fault for this damage. This damage occured because of the mishandling by the post office. Because the package wasn't insured or declared honestly the post office will probably offer little to nothing in compensation. You could say it is a learning lesson but I haven't stopped packing comics this way as all records indicate we are batting 99.9%.

[drice6900]

Two sides to every story

 

I send lots of Ebay sales to Europe, and I get the old "declare only $10" request all the time. If you are going to play that way and go without insurance, you have to assume all of the risks and that the outcome may not be in your favor.

[blowout]

Two sides to every story

 

I send lots of Ebay sales to Europe, and I get the old "declare only $10" request all the time. If you are going to play that way and go without insurance, you have to assume all of the risks and that the outcome may not be in your favor.

 

It is still fair to assume adequate packaging will be provided to protect the books though. You have to accept that some corner damage will occur to the envelope when shipping overseas. It is up to the seller to protect the books inside from this likely occurrence.

[drice6900]

Two sides to every story

 

I send lots of Ebay sales to Europe, and I get the old "declare only $10" request all the time. If you are going to play that way and go without insurance, you have to assume all of the risks and that the outcome may not be in your favor.

 

It is still fair to assume adequate packaging will be provided to protect the books though. You have to accept that some corner damage will occur to the envelope when shipping overseas. It is up to the seller to protect the books inside from this likely occurrence.

 

True enough! I never even bother with those envelopes anyways. I always send stuff boxed.

[sterlingcomics]

Always use nuke proof shipping, Sterling style:

 

• One oversized box (at least 1" free space on all sides of product when placed in box)
  
• Properly bagged and boarded books
  
• Oversized cardboard and/or ton of bubble wrap to secure books. If using cardboard tape the book so it is guaranteed that it won't slide to the other edges whereby exposing the possibility of damage.
  
• Peanuts (not newspaper) to fill out the box. A layer on the bottom, the package, and then peanuts around all four sides to the top.
  
• Use the fiber based tape to eliminate tampering
  

You can obviously do this cheaper but I personally would have peace of mind that the books will get there in one piece. I know some folks here are a fan of using envelopes...NOT ME.

 

BTW, I think this was a learning experience for both sides...if it's important enough to protect, then it's important enough to insure. In regards to shipping in envelopes, I'd personally freak if any large dollar amount of comics came in an envelope, protected or not. Just a heads up to anyone who ships to me.

 

Specifically regarding this incident, I agree that it is a series of decisions and unfortunate events that have left both feeling dismayed. I hope both buyer and seller can work out a mutually agreeable solution.

[blowout]

Two sides to every story

 

I send lots of Ebay sales to Europe, and I get the old "declare only $10" request all the time. If you are going to play that way and go without insurance, you have to assume all of the risks and that the outcome may not be in your favor.

 

It is still fair to assume adequate packaging will be provided to protect the books though. You have to accept that some corner damage will occur to the envelope when shipping overseas. It is up to the seller to protect the books inside from this likely occurrence.

 

True enough! I never even bother with those envelopes anyways. I always send stuff boxed.

 

As Darth says, the envelopes have more than enough room in them for the decent packaging.

In my experience, up to about 8 raw books can be packed up securely in a GPM mailer and it can withstand a fair bit of external damage without affecting the books. Once you try to cram 10 or more books into one though, then damage to the books is much more likely to occur.

All in all, the GPM mailer is a great way to get raw books shipped overseas at an economical postage rate. The fact is though, the envelopes themselves are pretty flimsy, so plenty of internal buffering IS ESSENTIAL to protect the books inside.

[CKB]

For Pete's sake, Russ, will you put $300 overseas orders in a BOX. Holy crapola... For what it's worth....in my opinion they were not packed well enough to withstand normal handling, and if I was the post office I would not accept a claim against it. Track record of your packages aside, I'm stupified that you have not had more problems with packaging things in this manner - across the pond or across town. (All my opinion, sorry Russ.)

 

A rule I have: Never play games with customs value. I state in my listings I do not do this and I'm sure there are some who do not buy from me because of it.

 

The USPS really should allow one to insure the GPM service. I don't understand why they do not.

[blowout]

The USPS really should allow one to insure the GPM service. I don't understand why they do not.

 

[ShoNuff-migration]

For Pete's sake, Russ, will you put $300 overseas orders in a BOX. Holy crapola... For what it's worth....in my opinion they were not packed well enough to withstand normal handling, and if I was the post office I would not accept a claim against it.

I'm going to have to agree. I don't think the packaging was adequate for $300 worth of comics shipped overseas. They really should have been shipped in a box. But regardless, placing the comics in between two pieces of oversized cardboard and then taping the cardboard together is simply not enough protection.

 

One moderate corner impact is more than sufficient to send the books sliding to the edge (or beyond) of the protective cardboard, where they are easily succeptible to damage.

 

Books of this value, especially when shipped overseas, should each be placed in a bag and board. Then they MUST each be taped to the oversized protective cardboard to prevent them from sliding out of this protective barrier. I ship all comics this way, regardless of value or destination.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Does anyone know which countries do not tax reading material? I know when I send to the UK that all reading material is customs free. (Or so a customer told me.) I'd hope that would extend to the whole EU but apparently that's not the case. Anyone know?

 

Marc

[ComicSupply]

For Pete's sake, Russ, will you put $300 overseas orders in a BOX. Holy crapola... For what it's worth....in my opinion they were not packed well enough to withstand normal handling, and if I was the post office I would not accept a claim against it. Track record of your packages aside, I'm stupified that you have not had more problems with packaging things in this manner - across the pond or across town. (All my opinion, sorry Russ.)

 

A rule I have: Never play games with customs value. I state in my listings I do not do this and I'm sure there are some who do not buy from me because of it.

 

The USPS really should allow one to insure the GPM service. I don't understand why they do not.

 

I am sorry you feel that way. All the books were bagged and boarded, then wrapped, then had cardboard placed around them. I have done my own tests on this and the cardboard I used is the same type of cardboard used to make a box, so the PSI exerted would of crushed the box as well. I am sorry but no tape or any type of making these comics stick to the boards would of mattered. The amount of force exerted on this package was so hard and fast that it would of broke the tape. I mean seriously, look at the corner it is shredded and ripped apart. Do you really think that any amount of tape or wrap would of prevented this? To me, this looks like a GPM caught in a sorting mechanism, or a large box dropped on a corner facing up.

 

It really isn't a manner of thinking I did wrong, it is just that I do this 50-100 times a week and I know it is good enough for those so why not these.

 

On another note, we do what our customer's ask. If they want GPM they get it, if they want boxed Surface they get it, etc etc.

 

Many buyers on here receive their orders by GPM envelopes as well as Flat rate envelopes no problems there so why would I all the sudden change my packing style? This is a series of unfortunate events such as not wanting to claim the true value, not wanting to pay for certain shipping and insurance, etc etc.

[chromium]

Does anyone know which countries do not tax reading material? I know when I send to the UK that all reading material is customs free. (Or so a customer told me.) I'd hope that would extend to the whole EU but apparently that's not the case. Anyone know?

 

Books and magazines are exempt from tax in Belgium...except comic books

I've had long and heated discussion with the customs officials about this, but they claim that comic books fall under "toys" and 33% tax and duty is applied on the value.

 

The person I talked to at the customs dept. told me to always mark the green label "magazines" and never put more than $25.00 value on the slip....

 

I've had a few 100 packages sent this way, and only the ones that didn't have the above were pulled and taxed.

 

For more expensive books it's risky sometimes. If I buy a $1000 book and have it shipped insured for the full amount I will end up paying about $300 tax and duty.

 

That means if I buy 4 $1000 books over a period and have each of them shipped uninsured and one of them gets lost then I'm still ahead...

This way I've lost $1000

If I had insured all 4 books then I would have been out $1200 (4*$300) in tax....

 

Happy to say that I've imported over 10.000 books from the USA and never had a book lost in transit.

[Johnny G]

On another note, we do what our customer's ask. If they want GPM they get it, if they want boxed Surface they get it, etc etc.

 

BINGO!!!

 

If a customer doesn't want to pay the extra $$ to ship securely in a BOX and also doesn't want the 'ol taxman to collect, then what's a seller to do??? Eat an extra $25 in shipping??? How else can those books have been packaged any better??? 5 books 2 pieces of cardbord wrap and tape... do you really think anything else would fit into a GPM Flat Envelope???

 

C'mon people!!!

 

Kermit... I am sorry for your trouble and I know I'd be pizzed as well... but I don't really think Russ did a bad job of packing for what he had to work with. I have recieved nothing but stellar packing jobs from him in the past I think if we can afford $300 in comics, we can afford the extra $20-30 to have it shipped securely to avoid this type of problem!

[Kermit the frog]

Russ

 

1. We packed this the same way we have packed hundreds of other orders with no losses or complaints.

 

2. The option Kermit chose which was Global Priority does not allow insurance to France.

 

3. The value was declared at $30 by Kermit's request because he didn't want to pay taxes on it.

 

4. If we shipped it Airmail we could of insured it but the postmaster has suggested to me that if damage occured it would be hard to approve the claim unless it was declared (see #3 above)for the same amount insured for.

 

I remember clearly asking if the way you packed was good enough for the enveloppe, you assured me it was. Yes i asked for the insurance to be a minimum to avoid taxes...but i also remember on my paypal paiement message to ask for a box.

 

If it was our packing then this wouldn't be the only one that has happened. Many of you have ordered comics from me and not a single buyer has complained about poor packing. I believe that this package had such force exerted on it that even another piece of pieces of cardboard (or bubble wrap as Kermit has privately suggested) would of helped. This package was subjected to at least 50-60 psi on that corner at least once. The corner shattered and dented the comic books. The comic books didn't move until the corner was smashed and gravity carried those comics into the ground with the cardboard surrounding it.

 

Now, I certainly didn't want to end this on a bad note with Kermit. I told him that I didn't believe the fault lied with our packaging and because I certainly wouldn't want to be treated badly I suggested the following.

 

Again, i never told/said it was all your fault, but to ignore a direct relation of the way things were packed up (mostly the BIG flaw that allowed them to freely slide/bump during the trip) and the type of damage, isn't imho the best way to handle things (sellers side), specially on high $$$ comics.

A simple cardboard sandwich without any kind of stuffed material won't do much, specially sending comics overseas!!!

How is the force so big that hit/bumped the pachage that the inside cardboards show no damage?!?! How's this possible?! If the force was that big they should/would have shown serious damage too...!!!

The type of supple cardboard that an enveloppe is made of, it doesn't take much to do damage to it, specially in the corners. I've received packages in worst condition and the comics were perfect because they were stuffed/protected inside.

Cardboards prevent from direct impact hit, but do nothing to the slightest mishandling, only if the comics are snugged/stuffed to rpevent them from sliding.

Usually i put plastic bubble wrapp and tape to stuff the bagged/boarded comics to the enveloppe to prevent them from sliding/bumping like these did.

 

I suggested that we pursue some sort of compensation from the post office and that I would gladly and happily send him $100 credit to use at another date. I was saddened this happened and Kermit had commented that money wasn't something he had a lot of so I figured maybe this would soften the blow. Whatever the post office would give was good, and with the $100 credit I thought this was more than fair from me. In the end he was very panicky and rude about the $100 credit so I basically retracted it and said whatever the post office gives you is what your getting.

 

Oh the 100$ story, . I remember clearly asking you what would happen if the post office gave little to no refund and you replied "...i'll give you 100$ credit store...". That surprised and revolted me...but i don't remember insulting you in any way.

Maybe i misunderstood, but i don't think so.

 

On another note, a few days after our last PM he did try the Paypal refund policy amidst him being told by me that I was handling the complaint paperwork that may or may not involve money being returned.

 

Didn't knew there was an argument/situation for this too, but ok, let's clear this one up too.

Couple of weeks ago you told me you were having an appointement last thursday at the post offices. I said, "great and if things don't move forward we could always try to explore the paypal for some kind of refund". After a couple of pm's you replied me saying that things will take several weeks/months for the post offices,and so, like i've told you and you were clearly informed, i tried to move thigns forward on the paypal field, which were stoped from the begining.

I really don't remember you telling me that this will or will not work...it was an option i thought of and informed you.

 

He wasn't at fault and I believe I wasn't at fault for this damage. This damage occured because of the mishandling by the post office. Because the package wasn't insured or declared honestly the post office will probably offer little to nothing in compensation. You could say it is a learning lesson but I haven't stopped packing comics this way as all records indicate we are batting 99.9%.

 

Like i've said several times, i don't think this is 100% your fault, but to ignore/refuse the direct relation of the way they were packed and the type of damage inflicted amazes and makes me sad.

 

too bad i'm the 0.01% of the statistics and out of 300$

 

i still want to believe that Russ's will compensate for all this messed up situation, but relying everything on the little/to no refund from the USPS makes my head dizzy to say the least.

crossing my

 

regards