CGC 9.8 Hulk Annual #1

[namisgr]

Wow, you guys just went from major supposition to "the new game being played" in only 3 posts. That's gotta be a new record!

 

What's your explanation of the numerous examples we've seen of Pedigrees losing their notations?

 

Jim

 

I wasn't referring to pedigrees losing notations. I was referring to this new idea you presented that certain people are failing to mention a pedigree designation on a resub, then going back at a later date and saying "oops, I boo-booed, can you put the pedigree notation back on the label?'"

 

I'm not saying it's never happened. But, there's a tendency on the boards to move a subject from wild speculation to accepted fact with amazing speed and zero facts.

 

I consider it the responsibility of all professional comic sellers to ensure that a pedigree designation is maintained on a book that has been re-encapsulated. While it matters for other reasons whether a designation has been purposely hidden or accidently left off, the historical value and provenance of pedigree comics makes it absolutely incumbent upon Matt Nelson or anyone else to keep the ped notation on a re-encapsulated book.

 

It also happens to be more than a wee bit ironic that this case of losing a pedigree designation is the responsibility of an individual co-authoring the first book on pedigree comic collections. Not only is the historical value clearly known to this co-author, but he stands to profit from the interest in the collecting community on such pedigrees.

[nearmint]

Unfortunately, in many cases over the last couple of years, wild speculation has moved slowly but intractably into the realm of fact.

 

As it should. That's my whole point. Let's let evidence support these suppositions before we present them as anything more concrete.

 

I'm not doing damage control for anyone. During the Ewert fiasco, numerous board members gave me a hard time for suggesting we not convict until the evidence is in, but as soon as I was given concrete proof, my next post was "he's guilty as hell." That's not damage control. It's reasonable discourse.

[namisgr]

Someone finally emailed me about the Hulk. Yes, it is the Northland copy. There was a mistake made when the book was resubmitted, and the pedigree designation was left off by accident. I know some of you suspect this was done on purpose, but there is no point in trying to hide the book's origin. If I was trying to do that, I would have put up a smaller scan, or just sold it through someone else. Honest mistake. Thanks to those of you who bothered to ask me, rather than assume it was intentional.

 

I think the book may have brought more if it had the pedigree on the label, so I'm kind of bummed about that. I've emailed the winner about the pedigree, and the book will be sent back to CGC for a new label.

 

Speaking of mistakes, Matt, your recently auctioned FF32 also is missing the "Joe and Nadia" collection designation from its prior CGC encapsulation.

[Red Hook]

I have no problem with you withholding judgement until the evidence accumulates to your personal satisfaction. In the Ewert situation, it was time sensitive...and it was important to get the word out to the general buying public that a possible situation existed.

 

Unfortunately, that never really happened much outside of these boards and it was board members who pushed the agenda on that one.

 

I don't think a little fact-based speculation on the boards here is a bad thing at all. It can do far more good than harm as far as I'm concerned. Then, let the facts accrue till the point of certainty one way or the other.

[Red Hook]

Speaking of mistakes, Matt, your recently auctioned FF32 also is missing the "Joe and Nadia" collection designation from its prior CGC encapsulation.

 

 

[nearmint]

I don't think a little fact-based speculation on the boards here is a bad thing at all. It can do far more good than harm as far as I'm concerned. Then, let the facts accrue till the point of certainty one way or the other.

 

I don't think it's a bad thing either, as long as it continues to be presented as speculation until the facts are in. Too many times, it's presented as speculation for a few posts, then quickly moves to "the new game being played" and the speculation part is forgotten. Anyone coming into the conversation without reading every single post could easily assume that the evidence is already in, when actually it remains idle speculation.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I don't think a little fact-based speculation on the boards here is a bad thing at all. It can do far more good than harm as far as I'm concerned. Then, let the facts accrue till the point of certainty one way or the other.

 

I don't think it's a bad thing either, as long as it continues to be presented as speculation until the facts are in. Too many times, it's presented as speculation for a few posts, then quickly moves to "the new game being played" and the speculation part is forgotten. Anyone coming into the conversation without reading every single post could easily assume that the evidence is already in, when actually it remains idle speculation.

 

In the absence of this aggressive speculation, this thread will die out & collectors will continue to be duped by these scammers.

 

You think that you're adding to the discussion, but as in the past...you're merely getting in the way.

 

No offence, but it's difficult enough exposing these scams....without having to PROVE everything to your satisfaction.

 

Let the accused step up & clear the air.

[Flaming_Telepath]

OK, this is what makes the excuse so unbelievable, and I'll spell it out in black and white for those who prefer to attempt to maintain the status quo for the 'movers & shakers' in the industry....

 

(1) Matt Nelson knows his pedigrees. He also knows the importance of pedigrees.

(2) Matt knew he sent the Northland Hulk Annual #1 for reslabbing once he'd put the ironing board away.

(3) Matt knew that he received the Northland Hulk Annual #1 back from CGC without the pedigree notation.

 

So, why did he not immediately pick up the phone to one other portion of the Axis of Evil down in Sarasota to scream 'YOU GUYS DROPPED THE BALL!!!!'

 

Why did he instead throw it up on eBay double-quick time, without even mentioning in his auction description that the book was the Northland copy, bearing in mind points (1), (2) & (3) above?

 

(There is of course the option of using the 'Doug Defense' at this point, which seems to wash well with those buyers still clutching desperately to the latest Heritage 'prices realised' as confirmation that all is right with their world.)

 

Why did he have to sell it with its erroneous lack of notation? Was he that desperate for quick cash and simply couldn't afford the extra couple of weeks for a reslab with the correct notation?

 

Or did he knowingly and deliberately press a pedigree, resub and deliberately lose the notation in the hope that it was untraceable?

 

Gentleman....you do the math.

[THE_BEYONDER]

My head hurts when I contemplate the obvious.

[Davenport]

In reverse... A Pedigree "remembered", to go along with a grade bump.

 

Hit Comics # 18 CGC 7.0 Heritage

 

Hit Comics #18, CGC 8.0 Pennsylvania

[nearmint]

I don't think a little fact-based speculation on the boards here is a bad thing at all. It can do far more good than harm as far as I'm concerned. Then, let the facts accrue till the point of certainty one way or the other.

 

I don't think it's a bad thing either, as long as it continues to be presented as speculation until the facts are in. Too many times, it's presented as speculation for a few posts, then quickly moves to "the new game being played" and the speculation part is forgotten. Anyone coming into the conversation without reading every single post could easily assume that the evidence is already in, when actually it remains idle speculation.

 

In the absence of this aggressive speculation, this thread will die out & collectors will continue to be duped by these scammers.

 

You think that you're adding to the discussion, but as in the past...you're merely getting in the way.

 

No offence, but it's difficult enough exposing these scams....without having to PROVE everything to your satisfaction.

 

Let the accused step up & clear the air.

 

Argh. I just said, I have no problem with speculation, even "aggressive speculation", as long as it's presented as such. Unless you think that speculation should be presented in a manner that could be misconstrued as fact, I don't know how you can reasonably disagree.

 

Sorry you think I "get in the way". You're the first to suggest that, and it's certainly not my intention.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Hmm...

 

Pedigree removed & book sold as a regular 7.0

 

Pedigree "remembered" & added upon press/resub for an 8.0

 

Seems profitable....

[Flaming_Telepath]

In reverse... A Pedigree "remembered", to go along with a grade bump.

 

Hit Comics # 18 CGC 7.0 Heritage

 

Hit Comics #18, CGC 8.0 Pennsylvania

 

Ah, now come on....you can't have it both way!

 

Oh, wait a minute...of course certain people can....

[THE_BEYONDER]

Sorry you think I "get in the way". You're the first to suggest that, and it's certainly not my intention

 

When we all knew for FACT that Ewert was pressing books....you demanded PROOF.

 

It's the same way with every new scandal that arises.

 

Rather than continually demand proof, maybe you should entertain the idea that some of us know what we're talking about...and have no desire to make public our sources.

 

Let those getting caught in the act step up & squash these accusations. There's a reason that they are having trouble doing so.

 

As I said in my PM to you, my comments were not intended as a "bash". Just wish people would stop defending those that are clearly guilty of complicity.

[FlamingCarrot]

OK, this is what makes the excuse so unbelievable, and I'll spell it out in black and white for those who prefer to attempt to maintain the status quo for the 'movers & shakers' in the industry....

 

(1) Matt Nelson knows his pedigrees. He also knows the importance of pedigrees.

(2) Matt knew he sent the Northland Hulk Annual #1 for reslabbing once he'd put the ironing board away.

(3) Matt knew that he received the Northland Hulk Annual #1 back from CGC without the pedigree notation.

 

So, why did he not immediately pick up the phone to one other portion of the Axis of Evil down in Sarasota to scream 'YOU GUYS DROPPED THE BALL!!!!'

 

Why did he instead throw it up on eBay double-quick time, without even mentioning in his auction description that the book was the Northland copy, bearing in mind points (1), (2) & (3) above?

 

(There is of course the option of using the 'Doug Defense' at this point, which seems to wash well with those buyers still clutching desperately to the latest Heritage 'prices realised' as confirmation that all is right with their world.)

 

Why did he have to sell it with its erroneous lack of notation? Was he that desperate for quick cash and simply couldn't afford the extra couple of weeks for a reslab with the correct notation?

 

Or did he knowingly and deliberately press a pedigree, resub and deliberately lose the notation in the hope that it was untraceable?

 

Gentleman....you do the math.

 

Game. Set. Match.

 

[nearmint]

When we all knew for FACT that Ewert was pressing books....you demanded PROOF.

 

Of course. Why wouldn't I want the benefit of the facts? I'm just supposed to accept that you have facts and that they came from a reliable source?

 

Rather than continually demand proof, maybe you should entertain the idea that some of us know what we're talking about...and have no desire to make public our sources.

 

THAT'S the problem. People with facts that decline to reveal them, leaving us all guessing. Not that that pertains to this thread, where no one has even claimed to have facts that they're reluctant to reveal.

[AussieRuss]

THAT'S the problem. People with facts that decline to reveal them, leaving us all guessing. Not that that pertains to this thread, where no one has even claimed to have facts that they're reluctant to reveal.

 

Is that not exactly what this thread is about? Just replace the word reluctant with the word forgot.

[THE_BEYONDER]

It's not my responsibility to prove stuff to you. The scammers are working over-time, and it's up to us to try & shut down their operation.

 

I'm sure Matt is following this thread....and is free to jump in at any time & put an end to the speculation.

 

There is indeed a "game" being played, and only those "playing" have any reason to defend it.

[nearmint]

THAT'S the problem. People with facts that decline to reveal them, leaving us all guessing. Not that that pertains to this thread, where no one has even claimed to have facts that they're reluctant to reveal.

 

Is that not exactly what this thread is about? Just replace the word reluctant with the word forgot.

 

Yes, the thread is about whether Matt made a simple mistake or intentionally left the notation off his submittal form. But, my point was that no one has claimed to have any facts about the truth of the matter that they're unwilling to reveal becuase they're protecting the source of the info, as Beyonder stated has happened in the past, as a reason why I should refrain from taking part in controversial threads.

[Sal]

i'm curious under what circumstances one might forget something as important as a Pedigree desingation. even if the book had gone into his "to be worked on" pile two months in advance, and even if there were four OTHER Hulk Annual #1s in the pile, you would think that the OLD LABEL would still be handy.

 

 

it's not like it's a random copy of Turok 1 or something.

 

 

please note i am not trying to get people to read between the lines. i'm genuinely curious how someone would forget to put that Ped designation on the form. i assume that Matt did not send the old label back with the book, as the old grade is still in the Census