Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[showcase4]

I ask you all once again to objectively look at the interior pages, including the alignment of indivual panels and artwork/text. If the artwork were colored, and the pages white, this 1842 comic book what look like a 1942 comic book.( aside form the lack of word balloons--Obadiah has its text at the bottom of each panel). No one could possibly call this a BLB after taking a neutral and unbiased look.

 

Press the "contact me" tab on my website:

 

www.VictorianAgeComics.com

[gifflefunk]

Ok, so I looked at all the "panels" found here.

 

And it looks like it is just another illustrated narrative... much like the Bayeux Tapestry. Obadiah Oldbuck is just another piece in a long chain on the history of the illustrated narrative. If the modern definition of "comic book" is expanded to encompass all illustrated narratives then so be it... what I collect, and are commonly refered to as comic books, are comic magazines. OO is no where close to being a comic magazine and in my opinion has more in common with other forms of illustrated narratives, like BLBs, than the material found in something like Action Comics.

[Aman619]

hey, Steve. I checked out your website, and I am impressed. I think your museum is a great idea. I would welcome seeing all these incremental examples of graphic storytelling all assembled once and for all. Its a worthy lifes goal! Best of luck.

 

But, you have to decide if you are going to be an archivist, researcher, curator, or pimp. Stop touting the perceived values of things YOU collect and love in an effort to persuade others to follow you. Have fun. Collect away. Just dont ram it down peoples throats. dig?

[Earl Davis]

I consider it a comic.

[batman_fan]

Please, please, please, quit beating on KrazyKat. He has a new song he is singing which, although just as annoying, is different at least.

 

On a more serious note, the addition of the Victorian section in OS has definitely helped pump up the price of a lot of this very early material, but I would love to hear how many 20/30 year old individuals are out buying Buster Brown or Yellow Kid?

[showcase4]

hey, Steve. I checked out your website, and I am impressed. I think your museum is a great idea. I would welcome seeing all these incremental examples of graphic storytelling all assembled once and for all. Its a worthy lifes goal! Best of luck.

 

But, you have to decide if you are going to be an archivist, researcher, curator, or pimp. Stop touting the perceived values of things YOU collect and love in an effort to persuade others to follow you. Have fun. Collect away. Just dont ram it down peoples throats. dig?

 

Well gee...this is a tough decision..I've spent my entire life trying to please you, and now I have to decide if I'm going to be an archivist, researcher, curator or pimp. I think because of the fringe benefits...I'll choose pimp!

 

as for ramming things down peoples throats...not my intention. My only goal with this post is to help create an awareness of the often overlooked early years of US comics, and to spark a healthy debate.

[ShoNuff-migration]

Obadiah Oldbuck smoked crack and ate cat food. For these reasons alone, this book should be shunned until it fades so far into obscurity that even the crackpots won't remember it.

[showcase4]

Obadiah Oldbuck smoked crack and ate cat food. For these reasons alone, this book should be shunned until it fades so far into obscurity that even the crackpots won't remember it.

 

 

Based on this elequently worded, extremely well thought out doctorial type of analysis, I believe I should sell my 3 copies of Obadiah Oldbuck immediately.

sho'nuff has helped me see the light

[showcase4]

Ok, so I looked at all the "panels" found here.

 

And it looks like it is just another illustrated narrative... much like the Bayeux Tapestry. Obadiah Oldbuck is just another piece in a long chain on the history of the illustrated narrative. If the modern definition of "comic book" is expanded to encompass all illustrated narratives then so be it... what I collect, and are commonly refered to as comic books, are comic magazines. OO is no where close to being a comic magazine and in my opinion has more in common with other forms of illustrated narratives, like BLBs, than the material found in something like Action Comics.

 

 

And the debate continues.....but it really doesn't. At the end of the day, a recognized authority determines what is, and what is not, and in this case, the authority is The Overstreet Price Guide. As the "bible" of the comic world, if Overstreet lists Obadiah Oldbuck ( and other comics like it ) as a comic book, then it is a comic book. Overstreet helps resolve issues like this very simply....if it's in the guide, it is a marketable, industry recognized "comic book". Just look at the struggle people have when they go to sell unlisted comics...if they sell at all, it is usually only for a few dollars, regardless of rarity or subject matter. If you open the new Overstreet Price Guide to page 370, you will see Obadiah Oldbuck...AKA a "comic book".

[gifflefunk]

And the debate continues.....but it really doesn't. At the end of the day, a recognized authority determines what is, and what is not, and in this case, the authority is The Overstreet Price Guide. As the "bible" of the comic world, if Overstreet lists Obadiah Oldbuck ( and other comics like it ) as a comic book, then it is a comic book. Overstreet helps resolve issues like this very simply....if it's in the guide, it is a marketable, industry recognized "comic book". Just look at the struggle people have when they go to sell unlisted comics...if they sell at all, it is usually only for a few dollars, regardless of rarity or subject matter. If you open the new Overstreet Price Guide to page 370, you will see Obadiah Oldbuck...AKA a "comic book".

 

Big Little Books are also found in the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide. And a lot of folks don't agree with Beerbohm and his personal selling agenda.

[ShoNuff-migration]

I believe I should sell my 3 copies of Obadiah Oldbuck immediately.

I think you should keep them.

 

In another 164 years, you might be able to trade them for something even more valuable at that time...like a Spawn #1, or possibly an issue of the new Teen Titans.

[Aman619]

Overstreet's opinions has been proven to change with the prevailing winds. We all rely on its definitions, prices and authority to varying degrees, but Overstreet's seal of approval of OO as a comic book is short lived to date, and subject to revision. They have prices listes for far more than the comics ever sell for (see the other thread lising many examples). Thats just one instance of the Guide's tenuous control of the comics market and authority.

[shiverbones]

overstreet's guide is far too riddled with misinformation, omissions and out of reality pricing to really be considered the final word by anyone who takes comics seriously. You are basing your beliefs on someone else's opinion, and its an opinion with an agenda.

[showcase4]

Our hobby would not exist as a smooth running machine without The Overstreet Price Guide or a slimilar replacement...no one would know what they had, or if they should even have it, or how to price it, or how to grade it, etc. etc. My beliefs are my own...Overstreet just confirms and validates them as accurate. As for Bob Beerbohm..he does not have an agenda...what he has is knowledge

[CentaurMan]

overstreet's guide is far too riddled with misinformation, omissions and out of reality pricing to really be considered the final word by anyone who takes comics seriously. You are basing your beliefs on someone else's opinion, and its an opinion with an agenda.

 

Amen. If you paid Bob Beerbohm prices for platinum age books, using the guide Bob Beerbohm wrote as your justification for the prices, I feel sorry for you. In no way should the Overstreet guide be considered the last word in illustrated books from that era, and I think pretty much any experienced collector would echo that sentiment.

 

And by the way, I think the world of Bob Beerbohm. He's an absolute treasure, and the work he does on the history of illustrated books is invaluable. Super, super guy, someone I could happily talk to for hours. There are few people around who've been that active in the hobby for 40 years, and as such we should all have some reverence for him.

 

But that doesn't make his Overstreet pricing indicative of true "market" price. Far from it, in fact, as he's pretty much the single illustrated book collector who most benefits from high platinum age prices (except for maybe yourself, at this point).

[CentaurMan]

Our hobby would not exist as a smooth running machine without The Overstreet Price Guide or a slimilar replacement...no one would know what they had, or if they should even have it, or how to price it, or how to grade it, etc. etc.

 

You poor guy. Seriously, this is turning from funny to tragic.

 

How do people know how to buy and sell stocks without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell homes without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell artwork without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it?

 

Answer: Experts in all three areas are perfectly capable of appraising the value, desirability, and resale potential of the asset class with which they're familiar. Same with comics. I haven't bought a guide in 5 years and I'm perfectly capable of buying, selling, pricing, identifying, grading, etc., etc, and I'm hardly one of the board's senior experts.

 

In fact, there's nothing an experienced expert who lacks ethics wants to see more than someone like yourself who thinks the guide is an invaluable, infallible bible. He'd have people like yourself bent over so fast they won't know what hit them. Please, before you go dropping 5 figures on another old illustrated book, consult with someone who knows what they're doing (NOT the person selling you the book!) and ask whether you're paying a price that's within 500% of true market value. Because that's generally how far off Overstreet is on the platinum age stuff.

[batman_fan]

Our hobby would not exist as a smooth running machine without The Overstreet Price Guide or a slimilar replacement...no one would know what they had, or if they should even have it, or how to price it, or how to grade it, etc. etc.

 

You poor guy. Seriously, this is turning from funny to tragic.

 

How do people know how to buy and sell stocks without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell homes without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell artwork without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it?

 

Answer: Experts in all three areas are perfectly capable of appraising the value, desirability, and resale potential of the asset class with which they're familiar. Same with comics. I haven't bought a guide in 5 years and I'm perfectly capable of buying, selling, pricing, identifying, grading, etc., etc, and I'm hardly one of the board's senior experts.

 

In fact, there's nothing an experienced expert who lacks ethics wants to see more than someone like yourself who thinks the guide is an invaluable, infallible bible. He'd have people like yourself bent over so fast they won't know what hit them. Please, before you go dropping 5 figures on another old illustrated book, consult with someone who knows what they're doing (NOT the person selling you the book!) and ask whether you're paying a price that's within 500% of true market value. Because that's generally how far off Overstreet is on the platinum age stuff.

 

Very well put!

[showcase4]

 

Our hobby would not exist as a smooth running machine without The Overstreet Price Guide or a slimilar replacement...no one would know what they had, or if they should even have it, or how to price it, or how to grade it, etc. etc.

 

You poor guy. Seriously, this is turning from funny to tragic.

 

How do people know how to buy and sell stocks without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell homes without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell artwork without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it?

 

Answer: Experts in all three areas are perfectly capable of appraising the value, desirability, and resale potential of the asset class with which they're familiar. Same with comics. I haven't bought a guide in 5 years and I'm perfectly capable of buying, selling, pricing, identifying, grading, etc., etc, and I'm hardly one of the board's senior experts.

 

In fact, there's nothing an experienced expert who lacks ethics wants to see more than someone like yourself who thinks the guide is an invaluable, infallible bible. He'd have people like yourself bent over so fast they won't know what hit them. Please, before you go dropping 5 figures on another old illustrated book, consult with someone who knows what they're doing (NOT the person selling you the book!) and ask whether you're paying a price that's within 500% of true market value. Because that's generally how far off Overstreet is on the platinum age stuff.

 

Centaur-Man,

on one hand, you sound smart....and the other...not too bright. If you haven't bought a guide in 5 years, you are driving blind. It is impossible to maximize your industry knowledge without research tools...and Overstreet is one of the best.

as for "no guide" in the following fields, you could not be more wrong:

 

stock market- the stockbroker is the "guide"

real estate- the agent is the "guide"

art- you have the galleries, acutioneers and the dealers as the "guide"

 

If I followed only "guide" pricing, Obadiah should have cost me about $1,500. I paid $20,000...gee, I wonder if I came to my own conclusion on value, and ignored the unrealistic "guide" price....I must have a mind of my own!

 

PS Bob Beerbohm originally asked $30,000 for the Obadiah Oldbuck I bought from him last year....$20,000 was a negotiated price.

[batman_fan]

Our hobby would not exist as a smooth running machine without The Overstreet Price Guide or a slimilar replacement...no one would know what they had, or if they should even have it, or how to price it, or how to grade it, etc. etc.

 

You poor guy. Seriously, this is turning from funny to tragic.

 

How do people know how to buy and sell stocks without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell homes without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it? How do people buy and sell artwork without a guide telling them what to buy and how to price it?

 

Answer: Experts in all three areas are perfectly capable of appraising the value, desirability, and resale potential of the asset class with which they're familiar. Same with comics. I haven't bought a guide in 5 years and I'm perfectly capable of buying, selling, pricing, identifying, grading, etc., etc, and I'm hardly one of the board's senior experts.

 

In fact, there's nothing an experienced expert who lacks ethics wants to see more than someone like yourself who thinks the guide is an invaluable, infallible bible. He'd have people like yourself bent over so fast they won't know what hit them. Please, before you go dropping 5 figures on another old illustrated book, consult with someone who knows what they're doing (NOT the person selling you the book!) and ask whether you're paying a price that's within 500% of true market value. Because that's generally how far off Overstreet is on the platinum age stuff.

 

Centaur-Man,

on one hand, you sound smart....and the other...not too bright. If you haven't bought a guide in 5 years, you are driving blind. It is impossible to maximize your industry knowledge without research tools...and Overstreet is one of the best.

as for "no guide" in the following fields, you could not be more wrong:

 

stock market- the stockbroker is the "guide"

real estate- the agent is the "guide"

art- you have the galleries, acutioneers and the dealers as the "guide"

 

If I followed only "guide" pricing, Obadiah should have cost me about $1,500. I paid $20,000...gee, I wonder if I came to my own conclusion on value, and ignored the unrealistic "guide" price....I must have a mind of my own!

 

PS Bob Beerbohm originally asked $30,000 for the Obadiah Oldbuck I bought from him last year....$20,000 was a negotiated price.

 

Dude, collectors with any brains at all use current selling data to gauge the market and trends. They also know that just becasue one person pays big bucks for something does not set the general price.

 

BTW, good luck on that OO book. My hat is off to Bob, man did he make a major score!

[adamstrange]

If I followed only "guide" pricing, Obadiah should have cost me about $1,500. I paid $20,000...

 

So the guide is correct when it agrees with you that OO is a comic book, but the guide is incorrect when it comes to the price.

 

When you argue from authority, it's helpful not to knock the credentials of that authority yourself.