Larson Copy of Marvel Comics #1 on Heritage

[bluechip]

<<<<<<<<that the only event that could raise the desirability level of restored books is a change in the attitude of collectors towards them>>>>>>>>

 

 

I agree. And I can tell you without a doubt that, aside from those who would shun a restored action 1 to pay overguide for an unrestored wambi the jungle boy, the single biggest factor making restored books undesirable is not that work was done but that the system is designed to make it ambiguous WHAT work was done.

 

Even if you don't mind restoration, you should want to know what was done and what it looked like before.

[showcase4]

single biggest factor making restored books undesirable is not that work was done but that the system is designed to make it ambiguous WHAT work was done.

 

I'm sorry Bluechip, but this just does not make sense. I refuse to believe that a restored comic book will be more desirable if CGC were to change their restoration description by becoming extremely detail oriented with thieir summary by offering a 300 word intensely scientific conservator summary of work performed vs. the current 15-20 word general summary.

 

That implies if a potential buyer would not buy a given restored book because the label simply reads "pieces added", he would me more intereseted if the label read "pieces added include two archival 1/4" by 1/3" pulp additions with perfectly matching color touch to the lower portion of the spine, not effecting the front cover art work, staple placement, or title / cover lettering".

 

This type of detail may be of interest to a very small minority of collectors, but I would contend that 95% + would not find this to make any difference at all.

[bluechip]

<<<<<<<<<<I'm sorry Bluechip, but this just does not make sense. I refuse to believe that a restored comic book will be more desirable if CGC were to change their restoration description by becoming extremely detail oriented with thieir summary by offering a 300 word intensely detailed summary of work performed vs. the current 15-20 word general summary.

 

That implies if a potential buyer would not buy a given restored book because the label simply reads "pieces added", he would me more intereseted if the label read "pieces added include two 1/4" by 1/3" pulp additions to the lower portion of the spine, not effecting the front cover art work or title lettering". This type of detail may be of interest to a very small minority of collectors, but I would contend 95% + would not find this to make a difference >>>>>>>>>

 

I'm sorry, Showcase, but I can no longer feel your own arguments are anything but disingenuous.

 

I believe you know full well that in other firelds of collecting, they specificy what was restored. e.g. that a car had the right fender replaced from amother original.

 

They do that because people in car collecting, and in just about every other collecting field, damn well do want specific information. The fact that some people, like you, apparently, think any restoration is such an outrage that you don't care what was done or where doesn't affect what other people want.

 

But the fact that you're so determined to mischaracterize it and to insist that people feel as you despite all evidence to the conttrarry leads me to concluide that you are not simply stating how you feel but trying to prevent disclosure of details of restoration because you want to prevent buyers from having it.

 

And what reason could there be for doing that? When does anyone try to prevent information from being circulated? In my experience, only when they want people to be uninformed because they have an agenda to misinform them, because they don't want people making conclusions on their own which might be different from their own or pose a threat to their financial agenda.

 

Are you one of those people who sell slabbed copies of common material to people who have no idea there are thousands if not millions just like it? Or are you one of those who has a big stockpile of high grade stuff but none of it is meaningful culturally or historically, so you want to make people feel condition is all that matters?

 

If you are not, and you are just a person who really prefers high condition stuff over material that is culturally significant, then why are you so apparently obsessed with trying to prevent additional details from being disclosed in restoration?

 

If you're not interested in buying restored books, then it should be none of your business and you shouldn't even be inserting yourself in the discussion. In anything, you should be glad that it would make it more likely a book would be disclosed as restored.

 

It seems to me that a lot of people who opine as you do are not just disiniterested in buying restored books but very determined to make sure nobody else buys them.

 

And many of those people are also the very same people who not only don't give a damn that people are being scammed into buying *spoon* that is high grade but also common and meaningless. They are often the people who are PUSHING that material as hard as they can.

[showcase4]

And what reason could there be for doing that? When does anyone try to prevent information from being circulated? In my experience, only when they want people to be uninformed because they have an agenda to misinform them, because they don't want people making conclusions on their own which might be different from their own or pose a threat to their financial agenda.

 

Bluechip, I know you are new to the Boards, but I fear you have gone off the deep end, and I have triggered some deep rooted anger you have towards...I don't know who. ANYONE on these Boards will tell you that I collect Victorian and Platinum Age keys, with some 50's pre-code exotics thrown in. Where the heck is the agenda in doing that?

 

I am not a dealer sitting on 5,000 blue label gems...I am a collector of stuff from the 1842 -1955.

 

I am the last person on the Boards to have an anti-restoration agenda....I just don't like 'em and don't buy 'em.

[bluechip]

Re: details about what restoration was done.

 

<<<<<<<<I would contend 95% + would not find this to make a difference >>>>>

 

That is just plain absurd.

 

It seems to me you WANT 95% + of people to feel that way.

 

Just like the guys who are sitting on millions of copies of Spider-man #1 from 1990 want the market to focus on whether a slabbed copy is a 9.6 or a 9.8 because they they are sitting on stacks of them and they want to scam people into thinking it's a good idea to pay hundreds oir thousands for it.

 

You cannot tell me, or at least cannot tell me HONESTLY.... that it's really more important to devote much time and energy to disitnguishing between nearly identifcal copies of books that number in the thousands or even millions, yet it's simply not worth th etime and effort to distinguish whether a piece replaced on a restored Action 1 is a tiny one from the spine or a big one from the artwork.,

 

And even if you did believe that, what HARM is created by providing that information?

 

Unless, of course, you're one of the people scamming folks into buying high grade common garbage

[showcase4]

Re: details about what restoration was done.

 

<<<<<<<<I would contend 95% + would not find this to make a difference >>>>>

 

That is just plain absurd.

 

It seems to me you WANT 95% + of people to feel that way.

 

Just like the guys who are sitting on millions of copies of Spider-man #1 from 1990 want the market to focus on whether a slabbed copy is a 9.6 or a 9.8 because they they are sitting on stacks of them and they want to scam people into thinking it's a good idea to pay hundreds oir thousands for it.

 

You cannot tell me, or at least cannot tell me HONESTLY.... that it's really more important to devote much time and energy to disitnguishing between nearly identifcal copies of books that number in the thousands or even millions, yet it's simply not worth th etime and effort to distinguish whether a piece replaced on a restored Action 1 is a tiny one from the spine or a big one from the artwork.,

 

And even if you did believe that, what HARM is created by providing that information?

 

Unless, of course, you're one of the people scamming folks into buying high grade common garbage

 

 

My G-D man, time for the blood pressure pills! I simply don't buy restored books, and I have created a monster!

[CentaurMan]

You're doing a fine job, showcase, keep it up.

 

What's funny is, the way you feel now is the way many of us did when you first started posting here.

[bluechip]

<<<<<<<<You're doing a fine job, showcase, keep it up.

 

What's funny is, the way you feel now is the way many of us did when you first started posting here.>>>>

 

What what is that? I reallly can't tell.

 

If it's that you don't buy restored books, then fine. Don;t buy them.

 

It just seems very strange that people who don't buy restored books are so detemrined to make sure books are disclosed as restored but that details of the restoration itself NOT be provided.

 

Why?

[Aman619]

he means Showcase came here and monomaniacally badgered all of us to agree that his 1842 first comic book Obadiah Oldbusk was as worthy a collectible as an Action#1. We all (most of us ) grew frustrated with his singleminded and endless posts that none of us could make stop no matter what we said to him.

 

And now you, in this thread, have put Showcase in a similar position because no matter what he says, you feel much more strongly about you side of the "argument' than he does. He doesnt even collect HG slabs!! He just doesnt like restored books. period. No matter how many times he says t you think he;s part of an anti-resto cabal!

 

ps,, I dont buy restored books either, and dont mind the purple label or the lack of notes on the label. I just have no use or interest in a restored comic and prefer UNrestored copies.

[ciorac]

he means Showcase came here and monomaniacally badgered all of us to agree that his 1842 first comic book Obadiah Oldbusk was as worthy a collectible as an Action#1. We all (most of us ) grew frustrated with his singleminded and endless posts that none of us could make stop no matter what we said to him.

 

And now you, in this thread, have put Showcase in a similar position because no matter what he says, you feel much more strongly about you side of the "argument' than he does. He doesnt even collect HG slabs!! He just doesnt like restored books. period. No matter how many times he says t you think he;s part of an anti-resto cabal!

 

ps,, I dont buy restored books either, and dont mind the purple label or the lack of notes on the label. I just have no use or interest in a restored comic and prefer UNrestored copies.

 

BUT! In Showcase's defense he did, after much spirited debate, acquiesce about the Action #1 issue.

[bluechip]

I see. FYI, I don't think people are part of ant-resto cabal just for not buying restored books. Or even for insisting books be disclosed or even labelled restored. But when it comes to people who devote time and energy to insisting other people share that view, I question why it's worth their time.

 

And can understand why an honest person who didn't like restored books would not care whether a label had details on it. But when a person makes a concerted effort to PREVENT details from being put on labels. then I simply can't think of any honest or agenda-free reason why they would do that.

[ciorac]

I see. FYI, I don't think people are part of ant-resto cabal just for not buying restored books. Or even for insisting books be disclosed or even labelled restored. But when it comes to people who devote time and energy to insisting other people share that view, I question why it's worth their time.

 

And can understand why an honest person who didn't like restored books would not care whether a label had details on it. But when a person makes a concerted effort to PREVENT details from being put on labels. then I simply can't think of any honest or agenda-free reason why they would do that.

 

I hear ya bro. Inicidentally I love restored books. It makes unaffordable books, affordable! I would not be opposed at all to some sort of nomenclature that more clearly defined what has been done though. So you would have my support there.

[bluechip]

Hah! See what you mean now. Took a ,look at the Obadiah Oldbuck thread and in places it is just bizarre. Common sense tells you that while OO has plenty of room to move up in value it's just irrational to think it should or will have any chance of approaching the value of the first and most famous superhero, who is a household name in just about every household on the planet. Getting drawn into that argument woulld be like trying to win a debate with a barking dog.

[Aman619]

I see. FYI, I don't think people are part of ant-resto cabal just for not buying restored books. Or even for insisting books be disclosed or even labelled restored. But when it comes to people who devote time and energy to insisting other people share that view, I question why it's worth their time.

 

And can understand why an honest person who didn't like restored books would not care whether a label had details on it. But when a person makes a concerted effort to PREVENT details from being put on labels. then I simply can't think of any honest or agenda-free reason why they would do that.

 

I agree too. But your beef is with CGC and the direction THEY have pushed the hobby. Isnt it?

[ciorac]

Hah! See what you mean now. Took a ,look at the Obadiah Oldbuck thread and in places it is just bizarre. Common sense tells you that while OO has plenty of room to move up in value it's just irrational to think it should or will have any chance of approaching the value of the first and most famous superhero, who is a household name in just about every household on the planet. Getting drawn into that argument woulld be like trying to win a debate with a barking dog.

 

But, as I mentioned I did win that debate with Steve. He still holds that OO is the first comic book, and that matter is subject to opinion. But my stance on that is ambiguous. He did however, get off the OO as being as important if not more than Action #1. He is rational after all...

[bluechip]

You now, for a while I tried to collect the earliest comic books, but got frustrated when they never appreciated in the guide (even if you couldn't get it at that price, the guide kept insisting you could). And, after seeing the official word on which was the first change several times in several years, I thought it might not be a good idea to plunk big books down on a "first" that could end up being relegated to second or third....

[ciorac]

You now, for a while I tried to collect the earliest comic books, but got frustrated when they never appreciated in the guide (even if you couldn't get it at that price, the guide kept insisting you could). And, after seeing the official word on which was the first change several times in several years, I thought it might not be a good idea to plunk big books down on a "first" that could end up being relegated to second or third....

 

I went through the EXACT same experience. I finally moved them all, most at a loss, and was stuck with the Skippy's Own Book of Comics. That book took me forever to move Ken Stribling finally took pity on me and traded me out of it. I think he finally got rid of it one day.

 

I still really appreciate the early comics, and wouldn't mind owning a Detective Dan, or a Series One FF, but probably won't...

[CentaurMan]

Hah! See what you mean now. Took a ,look at the Obadiah Oldbuck thread and in places it is just bizarre. Common sense tells you that while OO has plenty of room to move up in value it's just irrational to think it should or will have any chance of approaching the value of the first and most famous superhero, who is a household name in just about every household on the planet. Getting drawn into that argument woulld be like trying to win a debate with a barking dog.

 

Sometimes I get the odd feeling that bluechip and showcase are the same person.

[Aman619]

maybe he's somebody we know.... but I dunno about it being Showcase.... I like the "argument with a barking dog" line a lot though!

[ciorac]

Hah! See what you mean now. Took a ,look at the Obadiah Oldbuck thread and in places it is just bizarre. Common sense tells you that while OO has plenty of room to move up in value it's just irrational to think it should or will have any chance of approaching the value of the first and most famous superhero, who is a household name in just about every household on the planet. Getting drawn into that argument woulld be like trying to win a debate with a barking dog.

 

Sometimes I get the odd feeling that bluechip and showcase are the same person.

You are getting funnier every day Win.

 

Might consider putting you in the top five if you keep this up.