Larson Copy of Marvel Comics #1 on Heritage

[Norrin_Radd]

I like HG PLOD's GA that is with Slight (P)

 

I'll settle for MG PLOD's GA that is with Slight (P).

[tth2]

It will be very interesting to see how well this binary world-view survives yesterday's disclosures at the Manufactured Gold thread in Comics General.

Actually, considering what CGC has now disclosed is NOT PLOD-able, that means that whatever they DO consider PLOD-able must be pretty freakin` bad!

[nearmint]

 

Awesome cover! I picked up this Startling #24 a while back because I'd never seen a copy offered for sale, and haven't since...

 

[bluechip]

Boy, where to begin. Here's the post:

 

<<<<You could fill up a label with 550 words, before and after pics, and a 10 year warranty on providing accurate info., and you will not see a rise in the price of restored books. You can't polish a turd. The only way restored books will start to rise in value is if collectors as a whole start to show a trend of paying more for them. I do not forsee that happening, but my crystal ball has been wrong in the past.

 

More to your point, I do no not believe the lack of restoration info on CGC labels has anything to do with market trends or market values. Additionally, I find their summary of work performed to be quite adequate. i.e. if a label denotes "pieces added", I don't believe the dimensions of the pieces themselves are neccessary >>>>>

 

 

Words like ":you can't polish a turd" illustrate what I mean about people showing hostility toward restored books and people who don't mind buying them.

 

So any book with a dot of color touch is a "turd"? That is not an extreme view toward restoration? Any restoration, regardless of how minor?

 

The rest of the post goes on to reiterate that point by asserting that it doesn't matter to anyone anywhere how much work was done to a book. I;'m sorry but that's completely absurd. Of couree it matters how much was done. Of course it matters whether a piece added is a 1/16th edge piece or a big chunk including artwork. Every thing about your post makes it clear that YOU consider all restoration to be the same. But your insistence that other people feel the same way (despite the obvious evidence that people do not all feel the same way) is precisely what I'm talking about when I say that people go out of their way to malign others for buying restored books and to drive the values down by keeping the details obscure and by trying to get others to adopt your view.

 

I am not trying to make anyone want restored books if they won't want them. Why are people like you so determined to insist that people feel the same way you do when there is so much evidence (even if only on these boards) that many people do not? Why insist details of work done will not matter when people are asking for those same details? If it won't help, then it certainly won't hurt either. So why devote so much time and energy to insisting on providing no details?

[showcase4]

Boy, where to begin. Here's the post:

 

<<<<You could fill up a label with 550 words, before and after pics, and a 10 year warranty on providing accurate info., and you will not see a rise in the price of restored books. You can't polish a turd. The only way restored books will start to rise in value is if collectors as a whole start to show a trend of paying more for them. I do not forsee that happening, but my crystal ball has been wrong in the past.

 

More to your point, I do no not believe the lack of restoration info on CGC labels has anything to do with market trends or market values. Additionally, I find their summary of work performed to be quite adequate. i.e. if a label denotes "pieces added", I don't believe the dimensions of the pieces themselves are neccessary >>>>>

 

 

Words like ":you can't polish a turd" illustrate what I mean about people showing hostility toward restored books and people who don't mind buying them.

 

So any book with a dot of color touch is a "turd"? That is not an extreme view toward restoration? Any restoration, regardless of how minor?

 

The rest of the post goes on to reiterate that point by asserting that it doesn't matter to anyone anywhere how much work was done to a book. I;'m sorry but that's completely absurd. Of couree it matters how much was done. Of course it matters whether a piece added is a 1/16th edge piece or a big chunk including artwork. Every thing about your post makes it clear that YOU consider all restoration to be the same. But your insistence that other people feel the same way (despite the obvious evidence that people do not all feel the same way) is precisely what I'm talking about when I say that people go out of their way to malign others for buying restored books and to drive the values down by keeping the details obscure and by trying to get others to adopt your view.

 

 

my good man BlueChip,

I was stressing MY views and My views only .....I am not trying to influence how others view restoration, and have no agenda here ......I in no way implied if you re-read my post that others should agree with me on this subject. I do believe I fall under an "extremist" category on this issue....most of my views on other things are more tolerant / moderate. I don't and won't buy a restored book whether it has a drop of glue or recreated front cover....if it's purple, I pass.

 

This works for me. I understand I may be in the minority with my strong stand, but last time I checked, this was still America.....freedom of speech is one of the key rights that makes this the greatest country on earth ( I digress ). None of this is to be taken personally or delivered with venom ...just clarifying that my views expressed here were by me, about me, and did not have to with others

[Silver Surfer]

Here is one of my "turds" with color touch. Still love the book but I'm not going to pay blue label prices for it, sorry.

[bluechip]

Re <<<<< I was stressing MY views and My views only>>>>

 

I appreciate that, and you clarified it somewhat. Though I would have to say that when you or someone else says "the market" will shun restored books as "turds," it's implied that you're speaking for others.

 

I understand that you might not be interested in a book with a dot of color touch, perhaps not even if that book was the first Action 1 off the presses and passed through the hands of Siegel and Shuster,then loaned to Einstein and Eisenhower.

 

But I would. And many others would, too. Regardless of a purple label.

 

On the other hand, I see little reason if any to bother grading and slabbing copies of books that were printed last week. Yet that is a burgeoning business. Just because I think it's silly doesn't mean I'm goiing to ignore the fact there is a

market that doesn't share my views.

 

What I object to is not that such a market exists, but that people insist restored books must be stigmatized so the "novice" will know how to spot it from far away.

 

Truth is I don't believe for a nanosecond that is being done to protect the novice but rather to convince the novice that slabbed copies of books printed last week do have value.

 

If we were to reflect my views (and to look out for the novice) we'd put copies of the likes of Spider-man Unlimited #1 in slabs with labels the color of iron pyrite, so buyers could tell from a distance that what they're looking at is fools' gold. Maybe the same should apply to any book that is known to have more than 100,000 copies in existence (or more than a thousand copies graded near mint)

 

And if we were to reflect only my views, we'd do something similar with those high grade copies of books like Wambi the Jungle Boy. To me, there's no reason to differentiate between a fine or a near mint copy because I wouldn't pay for either, let alone pay more for one above the other. And that's because the book and the character both eventually amounted to nothing on the cultural landscape. So, to reflect my views (and to protect the novice) perhaps we could compromise and grade the book on the full ten point scale, but slab it with a brown-colored label, so the "novice" will know it's a high grade book that laid a turd.

[showcase4]

"the market" will shun restored books as "turds,"

 

it's a high grade book that laid a turd.

 

I never thought about the word "turd" too much, but now that my previous post has popularized it, I really think it is kinda cool.

 

Bluechip, I must again compliment your posting skills and responses ...you appear to a be a well spoken, polite gentleman who knows his stuff ......you are far from a turd as far as I'm concerned!

[bluechip]

thanks, showcase4

[infinite_comics-migration]

Bluechip - all you need to know is that Showcase-4 is a Speculator first and foremost. All he cares about is the $$$, so his aversion to the Purple is not surprising. Just read his posts in this context and they will make more sense (and you won't have to do this - )

[RareHighGrade]

I do remember the hugely emotional response elicited by that trial balloon to do away with the PLOD and put everything in a Universal label with a numeric Restoration level. There does seem to be a huge constituency for keeping the scarlet letter stigma attached to anything judged by CGC to be restored. In fact, there seems to be a whole generation of collectors who have a completely binary take on this-- either it is a non-restored virgin or a restored tramp.

 

Perhaps CGC should effect change a little more slowly. For example, rather than doing away with the purple lable, CGC could institute a 10-point (or more) numeric restoration level on all purple lable books (rather than the current "slight, moderate and extensive" designations). This would provide the consumer with more info regarding the extent of the restoration, and might resuscitate the market for books with barely any restoration. That might start a process that could eventually resuscitate other restored books as well.

[nearmint]

I do remember the hugely emotional response elicited by that trial balloon to do away with the PLOD and put everything in a Universal label with a numeric Restoration level. There does seem to be a huge constituency for keeping the scarlet letter stigma attached to anything judged by CGC to be restored. In fact, there seems to be a whole generation of collectors who have a completely binary take on this-- either it is a non-restored virgin or a restored tramp.

 

Perhaps CGC should effect change a little more slowly. For example, rather than doing away with the purple lable, CGC could institute a 10-point (or more) numeric restoration level on all purple lable books (rather than the current "slight, moderate and extensive" designations). This would provide the consumer with more info regarding the extent of the restoration, and might resuscitate the market for books with barely any restoration. That might start a process that could eventually resuscitate other restored books as well.

 

Nicely said, Peter. I wish they'd do just that.

[showcase4]

Bluechip - all you need to know is that Showcase-4 is a Speculator first and foremost. All he cares about is the $$$, so his aversion to the Purple is not surprising. Just read his posts in this context and they will make more sense (and you won't have to do this - )

 

OK Infinite Comics, let's get a few things straight for the record:

 

1. I am a collector --- you can put the negative spin on it of you wish to rename it "speculator", but that is your problem. I collect what I love, and love comics, and love this hobby, and invest in it heavily.....if that is a bad thing in your eyes, than shame on you. You will not find a single collector with a substantial stake in his comic collection, that does not factor in the potential appreciation rate of his books....not one.

 

2. If I only cared about $$, I would not focus on Victorian and Platinum Age books. I would be like everyone else who is $$ focused only, and buy SA and GA high grade keys. You have no idea what you are talking about with your assumptions that you know me....you know nothing

 

3. you seem to follow me around from thread to thread like a little stalker with nothing better to do.....perhaps it's time to get a life

 

I'm glad I have had this chance to clarify things for you

[GreatEscape]

Bluechip - all you need to know is that Showcase-4 is a Speculator first and foremost. All he cares about is the $$$, so his aversion to the Purple is not surprising. Just read his posts in this context and they will make more sense (and you won't have to do this - )

 

OK Infinite Comics, let's get a few things straight for the record:

...

3. you seem to follow me around from thread to thread like a little stalker with nothing better to do.....perhaps it's time to get a life

 

I'm glad I have had this chance to clarify things for you

 

 

Forget the 5:30pm showing of "The Departed" movie...better action in here!!!

 

[infinite_comics-migration]

You will not find a single collector with a substantial stake in his comic collection, that does not factor in the potential appreciation rate of his books....not one.

 

You just found one. I know more. You're wrong, but I expect that

 

2. If I only cared about $$, I would not focus on Victorian and Platinum Age books.

 

Then why did it take a Lock to stop you from ranting about your $20,000 ($40,000) investment in OO?

 

I would be like everyone else who is $$ focused only, and buy SA and GA high grade keys. You have no idea what you are talking about with your assumptions that you know me....you know nothing

 

I know what I read in your posts, which reveal a lot, and I stand by my posts. Bluechip was getting frustrated with you because he didn't realize what a Speculator you are and how that shapes the context of your posts. Now he does. Free speech and all that, like you mentioned...

 

3. you seem to follow me around from thread to thread like a little stalker with nothing better to do.....perhaps it's time to get a life

 

No, actually I read a lot of threads, and try to enjoy them all, until your dumb azz shows up on one or two of them. Have I posted on your "Real 1st Apps" thread? If I was your stalker you'd know it...

'Cause this guy would have OO for lunch -

[Aman619]

Bluechip - all you need to know is that Showcase-4 is a Speculator first and foremost. All he cares about is the $$$, so his aversion to the Purple is not surprising. Just read his posts in this context and they will make more sense (and you won't have to do this - )

 

OK Infinite Comics, let's get a few things straight for the record:

 

1. I am a collector --- you can put the negative spin on it of you wish to rename it "speculator", but that is your problem. I collect what I love, and love comics, and love this hobby, and invest in it heavily.....if that is a bad thing in your eyes, than shame on you. You will not find a single collector with a substantial stake in his comic collection, that does not factor in the potential appreciation rate of his books....not one.

 

2. If I only cared about $$, I would not focus on Victorian and Platinum Age books. I would be like everyone else who is $$ focused only, and buy SA and GA high grade keys. You have no idea what you are talking about with your assumptions that you know me....you know nothing

 

3. you seem to follow me around from thread to thread like a little stalker with nothing better to do.....perhaps it's time to get a life

 

I'm glad I have had this chance to clarify things for you

 

Showcase, youve turned out to be a nice guy overall, but please dont overstate your "collector/speculator" quotient. As ecvidenced by your TWO purchases of Obadiah, which you staked (hopefully) well ahead of the pack or future collectors following your trailblazing lead.... you clearly bought them 90% spec/10% collector. The value and price has bee foremost in all your posts about it.

 

I know youre a collector too! But Obadiah was a HUUUGE bet for the potential upside since, right now, it has at best an arguable chance of taking off further.

[infinite_comics-migration]

Forget the 5:30pm showing of "The Departed" movie...better action in here!!!

 

 

Sorry to disappoint, but I try not to hijack too much. I've said my piece for today. (I think )

[comicdonna]

Can somebody trim his scans?

 

 

Please

All this scrolling left and right to read each post is driving me nuts!

I should be posting a book tomorrow somewhere.

[comicdonna]

Bluechip - all you need to know is that Showcase-4 is a Speculator first and foremost. All he cares about is the $$$, so his aversion to the Purple is not surprising. Just read his posts in this context and they will make more sense (and you won't have to do this - )

 

OK Infinite Comics, let's get a few things straight for the record:

 

1. I am a collector --- you can put the negative spin on it of you wish to rename it "speculator", but that is your problem. I collect what I love, and love comics, and love this hobby, and invest in it heavily.....if that is a bad thing in your eyes, than shame on you. You will not find a single collector with a substantial stake in his comic collection, that does not factor in the potential appreciation rate of his books....not one.

 

2. If I only cared about $$, I would not focus on Victorian and Platinum Age books. I would be like everyone else who is $$ focused only, and buy SA and GA high grade keys. You have no idea what you are talking about with your assumptions that you know me....you know nothing

 

3. you seem to follow me around from thread to thread like a little stalker with nothing better to do.....perhaps it's time to get a life

 

I'm glad I have had this chance to clarify things for you

 

Showcase, youve turned out to be a nice guy overall, but please dont overstate your "collector/speculator" quotient. As ecvidenced by your TWO purchases of Obadiah, which you staked (hopefully) well ahead of the pack or future collectors following your trailblazing lead.... you clearly bought them 90% spec/10% collector. The value and price has bee foremost in all your posts about it.

 

I know youre a collector too! But Obadiah was a HUUUGE bet for the potential upside since, right now, it has at best an arguable chance of taking off further.

I agree with aman, because their is a difference between collectors and speculator's. BTW, I'm not sure about the OO thread, but, I do enjoy your first apperances thread. (first panels) That's a great idea. I wish my keys weren't cgc'd or I'd contribute.

[adamstrange]

Boy, where to begin. Here's the post:

 

<<<<You could fill up a label with 550 words, before and after pics, and a 10 year warranty on providing accurate info., and you will not see a rise in the price of restored books. You can't polish a turd. The only way restored books will start to rise in value is if collectors as a whole start to show a trend of paying more for them. I do not forsee that happening, but my crystal ball has been wrong in the past.

 

More to your point, I do no not believe the lack of restoration info on CGC labels has anything to do with market trends or market values. Additionally, I find their summary of work performed to be quite adequate. i.e. if a label denotes "pieces added", I don't believe the dimensions of the pieces themselves are neccessary >>>>>

 

 

Words like ":you can't polish a turd" illustrate what I mean about people showing hostility toward restored books and people who don't mind buying them.

 

So any book with a dot of color touch is a "turd"? That is not an extreme view toward restoration? Any restoration, regardless of how minor?

 

Just after I post about the lack of negative comments and others confirm it who shows up but Showcase-4. If you'd like to see other equally diplomatic statements from him just read the Obadiah Oldbuck vs Action 1 thread. All I can say is that he ain't house-broken yet and you'll notice that there are plenty of folks that are ready to step in to clean up after him.

 

My position is that people the like dressed up poodles, restored books, ice cream cones, or fuzzy dice should buy them. The fact that the thing that you like is disliked by everyone is a blessing for the collector and only a curse for the seller or speculator. Ask tb and mica whether they like it better now that Duck books that used to be passed over in favor of superhero issues are going for multiples of guide. I'm grateful that there are lots of people who dislike many of the items that I buy as I don't need the competition.