Larson Copy of Marvel Comics #1 on Heritage

[bluechip]

Re: Collectors vs. Speculators

 

 

Unless you have unlimited resources and you know there is never a chance you will have to sell your collection, every collector with common sense must also think like a bit like a speculator. I often put it this way. Even if I am buying something just for me, and even if I am never expecting to sell it, I need to know that I could sell it for something close to what I paid, if not a bit more. But it's never a good idea to buy something knowing if you had to sell tomotrrow you'd lose more than, say, 20 percent.

 

There may be a FEW people who want things "just to have them" and don't care if they can never get their money back, but I guarantee it's a very, very very very few. And if anybody says otherwise you should ask why -- and wonder if they're not saying so to justify actions designed to sell high and keep buyers from having a chance at reselling for a profit.

[comicdonna]

Re: Collectors vs. Speculators

 

 

Unless you have unlimited resources and you know there is never a chance you will have to sell your collection, every collector with common sense must also think like a bit like a speculator. I often put it this way. Even if I am buying something just for me, and even if I am never expecting to sell it, I need to know that I could sell it for something close to what I paid, if not a bit more. But it's never a good idea to buy something knowing if you had to sell tomotrrow you'd lose more than, say, 20 percent.

 

There may be a FEW people who want things "just to have them" and don't care if they can never get their money back, but I guarantee it's a very, very very very few. And if anybody says otherwise you should ask why -- and wonder if they're not saying so to justify actions designed to sell high and keep buyers from having a chance at reselling for a profit.

I agree 100% I have chose a run, that is extremely appealing to me, and also would have no problem selling for a profit, if I was forced to. Even though I enjoyed all of my HG westerns and FC's when it came time to sell, I took a considerable loss. Now, It's GA Actions for me. But, their are people that are just speculators, and the books really have no meaning, It's just an investment. I'm in it for the art.

[adamstrange]

Re: Collectors vs. Speculators

 

 

Unless you have unlimited resources and you know there is never a chance you will have to sell your collection, every collector with common sense must also think like a bit like a speculator. I often put it this way. Even if I am buying something just for me, and even if I am never expecting to sell it, I need to know that I could sell it for something close to what I paid, if not a bit more. But it's never a good idea to buy something knowing if you had to sell tomotrrow you'd lose more than, say, 20 percent.

 

There may be a FEW people who want things "just to have them" and don't care if they can never get their money back, but I guarantee it's a very, very very very few. And if anybody says otherwise you should ask why -- and wonder if they're not saying so to justify actions designed to sell high and keep buyers from having a chance at reselling for a profit.

 

But if you've been buying restored books post-CGC you've bought them cheap right?

 

You shouldn't have much trouble getting something close to your money back if you've purchased with reasonable care, especially given the variety of sales venues (e.g. consignment sites, ebay, auctions, and dealers).

[FFB]

I do remember the hugely emotional response elicited by that trial balloon to do away with the PLOD and put everything in a Universal label with a numeric Restoration level. There does seem to be a huge constituency for keeping the scarlet letter stigma attached to anything judged by CGC to be restored. In fact, there seems to be a whole generation of collectors who have a completely binary take on this-- either it is a non-restored virgin or a restored tramp.

 

Perhaps CGC should effect change a little more slowly. For example, rather than doing away with the purple lable, CGC could institute a 10-point (or more) numeric restoration level on all purple lable books (rather than the current "slight, moderate and extensive" designations). This would provide the consumer with more info regarding the extent of the restoration, and might resuscitate the market for books with barely any restoration. That might start a process that could eventually resuscitate other restored books as well.

 

Nicely said, Peter. I wish they'd do just that.

 

My preference is to add a second BIG number score on the label for restoration, and just change the label color to blue. You could even have the word RESTORED in big, black letters on the label so that it is as visible as the large serial numbers, if not larger. If they did that, people MIGHT actually start paying more attention to what kind of restoration is present, instead of just looking at every purple label book as being the same as every other purple label book.

 

My point is, the fewer purple labels out there, the better. You can have disclosure without having the purple label of death.

[showcase4]

Just after I post about the lack of negative comments and others confirm it who shows up but Showcase-4. If you'd like to see other equally diplomatic statements from him just read the Obadiah Oldbuck vs Action 1 thread. All I can say is that he ain't house-broken yet and you'll notice that there are plenty of folks that are ready to step in to clean up after him.

.

 

Hey Adam Strange...

I just went number 2....... grab your pooper scooper

[adamstrange]

Just after I post about the lack of negative comments and others confirm it who shows up but Showcase-4. If you'd like to see other equally diplomatic statements from him just read the Obadiah Oldbuck vs Action 1 thread. All I can say is that he ain't house-broken yet and you'll notice that there are plenty of folks that are ready to step in to clean up after him.

.

 

Hey Adam Strange...

I just went number 2....... grab your pooper scooper

 

You'll notice that I didn't say I was scooping!

[ciorac]

And if we were to reflect only my views, we'd do something similar with those high grade copies of books like Wambi the Jungle Boy. To me, there's no reason to differentiate between a fine or a near mint copy because I wouldn't pay for either, let alone pay more for one above the other. And that's because the book and the character both eventually amounted to nothing on the cultural landscape. So, to reflect my views (and to protect the novice) perhaps we could compromise and grade the book on the full ten point scale, but slab it with a brown-colored label, so the "novice" will know it's a high grade book that laid a turd.

[lou_fine]

I don't and won't buy a restored book whether it has a drop of glue or recreated front cover....if it's purple, I pass.

 

This works for me.

 

Showcase-4;

 

Certainly glad to see that you have no problems living in your simple blue and purple fantasy world where everything is so clean-cut and innocent.

 

Unfortunately, in the real world, there are just so many shades of undisclosed or hidden purple in those little blue labels.

[lou_fine]

I do remember the hugely emotional response elicited by that trial balloon to do away with the PLOD and put everything in a Universal label with a numeric Restoration level. There does seem to be a huge constituency for keeping the scarlet letter stigma attached to anything judged by CGC to be restored. In fact, there seems to be a whole generation of collectors who have a completely binary take on this-- either it is a non-restored virgin or a restored tramp.

 

Perhaps CGC should effect change a little more slowly. For example, rather than doing away with the purple lable, CGC could institute a 10-point (or more) numeric restoration level on all purple lable books (rather than the current "slight, moderate and extensive" designations). This would provide the consumer with more info regarding the extent of the restoration, and might resuscitate the market for books with barely any restoration. That might start a process that could eventually resuscitate other restored books as well.

 

Nicely said, Peter. I wish they'd do just that.

 

My preference is to add a second BIG number score on the label for restoration, and just change the label color to blue. You could even have the word RESTORED in big, black letters on the label so that it is as visible as the large serial numbers, if not larger. If they did that, people MIGHT actually start paying more attention to what kind of restoration is present, instead of just looking at every purple label book as being the same as every other purple label book.

 

My point is, the fewer purple labels out there, the better. You can have disclosure without having the purple label of death.

 

Scott;

 

Totally agree with the viewpoints being expressed here since I have been pushing for a formalized 10-point restoration system ever since I joined the boards here. Unfortunately, this idea seems to have been shot down in flames by the majority of collectors who thought this system was far too complicated and really nothing more than just a scam to pass off restored books as unrestored books.

 

As a result, we now have a system where everything is just so simple and clean-cut: blue is blue and purple is purple. No mixing between the two as everybody can tell the difference between blue and purple.

[showcase4]

I don't and won't buy a restored book whether it has a drop of glue or recreated front cover....if it's purple, I pass.

 

This works for me.

 

Showcase-4;

 

Certainly glad to see that you have no problems living in your simple blue and purple fantasy world where everything is so clean-cut and innocent.

 

Unfortunately, in the real world, there are just so many shades of undisclosed or hidden purple in those little blue labels.

 

ahhhh yes, I am aware of this situation.

My world is not a fantasy world by the way...I am not interested in restored books...other are fine with them, and more power to 'em. As for my blue label quests that may have restoration not detected or even worse, detected but mistakenly labeled with a blue label ( I'm sure that has happened )....my world is still fine. It's a case of blue label that should have been purple, it boils down to this:

 

if a book looks unrestored, is graded as unrestored, and I have no reason to believe it really is restored-----it becomes unrestored in the theatre of the mind. It could be sold, traded, valued, and bought by myself and others with confidence, and unless someone confirms otherwise, it is unrestored to all who touch it, although not in reality.

 

You are not going to be scared of a mad man running towards you if he is invisible, because you don't see him coming ( same principle )

[showcase4]

My preference is to add a second BIG number score on the label for restoration, and just change the label color to blue.

My point is, the fewer purple labels out there, the better. You can have disclosure without having the purple label of death.

 

FFB,

the purple designation is no accident....restoration is a huge factor, whether positive ar negative, and the "fewer purple labels out there, the better" idea is a little scary. That's a form af market manipulation by covering up the truth, distorting reality, having an agenda...call it what you will. It's like a city with a high murder rate going to the local media and convincing them to report all murders on page 14 of the Sports page, so people think they're safer than they really are.

 

This market would be a very unsafe one to do business in if there is a concerted effort to water down what is known to be important, and have restored books "blend in" more with unrestored books.

[bluechip]

<<<<That's a form af market manipulation by covering up the truth, >>>>>

 

That is exactly what the current purple labels are. A form of market manipulation. They boost the value of common or meaningless books simply because they're high grade.

 

And they obscure the differences between restored books, lumping them all in one category as if a small bit of color touch is essentially the same as a recreated cover.

 

All of that only serves the agendas of people who consider restoration and grade the most important things, more important than cultural significance or content or even rarity.

 

I mean, for pete's sake, look at how out there your analogies are.

 

restored books are "turds," or "poodles" and restoring books is akin to "murder."?

 

If you are worried about people being deceived, why presume they are incapable of reading a label?

 

If you're worried about people being deceived, where are your turd and murder analogies when it comes to people being scammed with high grade garbage like books that were printed yesterday, books that number in the millions, even in in high grade, and books that mean nothing culturally or historically?

 

I haven't heard a word about those outrates. Yet the purple labels are not a sepoarate issue from those abuses. They directly contribute to those outrages by helping to mislead people that unrestored and high grade are more important than anything else.

[showcase4]

<<<<That's a form af market manipulation by covering up the truth, >>>>>

 

That is exactly what the current purple labels are. A form of market manipulation. They boost the value of common or meaningless books simply because they're high grade.

 

And they obscure the differences between restored books, lumping them all in one category as if a small bit of color touch is essentially the same as a recreated cover.

 

All of that only serves the agendas of people who consider restoration and grade the most important things, more important than cultural significance or content or even rarity.

 

I mean, for pete's sake, look at how out there your analogies are.

 

restored books are "turds," or "poodles" and restoring books is akin to "murder."?

 

If you are worried about people being deceived, why presume they are incapable of reading a label?

 

If you're worried about people being deceived, where are your turd and murder analogies when it comes to people being scammed with high grade garbage like books that were printed yesterday, books that number in the millions, even in in high grade, and books that mean nothing culturally or historically?

 

I haven't heard a word about those outrates. Yet the purple labels are not a sepoarate issue from those abuses. They directly contribute to those outrages by helping to mislead people that unrestored and high grade are more important than anything else.

 

this is a great subject....fun to debate...and an important subject. It sounds like the way the market is right now, which includes purple labels, all restoration being lumped together ( by some ), high prices paid for blue label modern books, and

the guys like me with a universal "no purple labels" attitude really, really bothers you.

 

My summary therefore Bluechip, is what really bothers you is that the market and the collectors in it are not acting the way you want them to or think they should act. My response to everything you said here ( respectfully ), is that you are suffering from a case of 'Marketplace Denial'. I would define this rather common disease as feeling frustated with the way things are, due to a self imposed set of beliefs as to the way things should be.

 

I don't have a cure for you, but I think we have identified the main difference bewteen us...I deal with the market as it really is VS. how it should be.

[Silver Surfer]

That was quick:

[infinite_comics-migration]

"Buy the book, not the label!"

[CentaurMan]

That was quick:

 

I didn't care for that other Larson copy at all, but this one, man, this one is incredible!!

[comic_lot]

the consignor should be thanking you big time for the relabeling and also should be buying the person who started this thread a steak dinner.

 

Kudos to Silver Surfer.

[Silver Surfer]

the consignor should be thanking you big time for the relabeling and also should be buying the person who started this thread a steak dinner.

 

Kudos to Silver Surfer.

 

I love steak.

[bluechip]

<<<<My summary therefore Bluechip, is what really bothers you is that the market and the collectors in it are not acting the way you want them to or think they should act. My response to everything you said here ( respectfully ), is that you are suffering from a case of 'Marketplace Denial'. I would define this rather common disease as feeling frustated with the way things are, due to a self imposed set of beliefs as to the way things should be.

 

I don't have a cure for you, but I think we have identified the main difference bewteen us...I deal with the market as it really is VS. how it should be>>>>>>

 

 

Respectfully, sir, you are not correct. It is not that I am suffering "marketplace denial" but that others (and perhaps you, too) are suffering "marketplace manipulation denial."

 

And some, I believe are not just in denial but are actively and purposely trying to manipulate the market to get more people to buy blue label high grade books because that is what they have for sale (and, because such books are extremely common, there are a LOT of people out there selling them, even as they claim to be concerned about the consmer being deceived into making bad investments. (and believe me, buying anything that is but one of millions just like it, is always a bad long term investment, no matter what the manipulation hype has it pegged at today)

 

Unlike those maket manipulaters, I am not trying to make anyone like you desire restored books. I am just trying to make people aware that the market is being manipulated and people who talk about "disclosure" are in some case actively doing all they can to prevent disclosure of detailed info about restored books so they can more easily condemn them and boost the value of their warehouse full of high grade blue label books.

 

The lack of detailed information on restored labels is not a result of the marketplace, buit a manipulation of information that affects the marketplace.

 

People avoiding restored books because they dont want them is the marketplace. People who seek to get others to avoid restored books is an attempt to manipulate the marketplace.

 

And if you're not trying to manipulate the marketplace to drive down the value of some books while boosting the value of others, then it cannot hurt to agree that information is supposed to be a good thing. Information is what makes the market find its own place. Misinformation is what manipulates it.

[showcase4]

cannot hurt to agree that information is supposed to be a good thing. Information is what makes the market find its own place. Misinformation is what manipulates it.

 

Hey Bluechip....I agree! ( about time, huh? ). Information is a GREAT thing, and I'm all for a restored label having as much info as possible.

 

My previous point was that if a label had additional resto info, that in and of itself would not raise values on restored books( IMO ), and that the only event that could raise the desirability level of restored books is a change in the attitude of collectors towards them....but as I buyer, I want to know as much as possible about as many things as possible so I can make wise decisions.

And yes...misinformation can manipulate a market...either intentionally or by happenstance.