Larson Copy of Marvel Comics #1 on Heritage

[bluechip]

<<<<<<<<<<<It would be great if CGC could start a seachable online database for restored books with the specifics of the work done. Such a database wouldn't give away their grading standards. Just what they found in the way of restoration. Since they input all that info into a computer anyway you would think that they could just upload it to the web.>>>>>>>>>

 

 

More info is always better than less. And in this case it's all info you'd had to discover durimng the grading and detection process anyway, so why not list it?

And I'd say that in addition, wherever possible, all restored books should be accompanied with pics of the books in its original state.

[Apotheosis]

And I'd say that in addition, wherever possible, all restored books should be accompanied with pics of the books in its original state.

 

While it would be nice I think that this is completely unrealistic. Most people don't even scan the books they own. There's also a large contingent of people that don't care what the book used to look like. They care about what it looks like now. I know that's how I feel on it anyway.

[bluechip]

<<<<< people that don't care what the book used to look like. >>>>>

 

A comic is different from a restored house. I'd have to say if it didn't matter to most people what the book looked like before then it likely wouldn't matter much to them whether it was restored or how much. And there are some who feel that way. But once again, when it's possible to have information, better to have it and not want it than to want it and not to have it.

 

I know it's not realistic that many restored books would come with before and afters. But I know that with key books especially it would make a difference to some, if not many. I know I am much more comfortable buying a restored book if I can see what it looked like before.

[Apotheosis]

A comic is different from a restored house. I'd have to say if it didn't matter to most people what the book looked like before then it likely wouldn't matter much to them whether it was restored or how much.

 

Why would you think that at all? Restored is still restored. If you don't want restored then it absolutely matters that it is restored, but it still doesn't matter what it looked like before. For those that buy restored often it is so they can obtain a book they normally wouldn't be able to so what it looked like before may still not matter. I'm not denying that there is a contingent of people that care (you being here proves that), but I'm not sure it's as large as you think.

 

Remember, some people buy comics for the pretty colors... not because it's the first time Superman is called Kal'el.

 

For those of you who buy restored... Does it matter what it looked like before?

[Harvey Dude]

I know it's not realistic that many restored books would come with before and afters. But I know that with key books especially it would make a difference to some, if not many. I know I am much more comfortable buying a restored book if I can see what it looked like before.

 

I was thinking of this the other day. I have about ten slabbed restored books in my collection. Harley Yee was the only dealer that provided me the before photos of a Green Lantern #1 that graded CGC 8.0 moderate restoration. I was surprised my other restored books did not come with documentation of the book’s condition prior to restoration.

[Harvey Dude]

For those of you who buy restored... Does it matter what it looked like before?

 

I love restored books and it does matter to me what the book looked like prior to restoration. I gauge the price on what I am willing to pay based on what I believe the condition of the book was prior to restoration. From my perspective, I view the value of a restored book as the cost of restoration plus the value of the book pre-restoration.

[bluechip]

<<<<<<<<<<<A comic book is not like a restored house.

 

Why would you think that at all?>>>

 

 

 

ISimple. When's the last time you heard somebody say they would never consider a restored house regardless of how well done it was?

[bluechip]

<<<<<<<<<<<If you don't want restored then it absolutely matters that it is restored, but it still doesn't matter what it looked like before. For those that buy restored often it is so they can obtain a book they normally wouldn't be able to so what it looked like before may still not matter.>>>>>

 

 

It may not have been your intent but this plays into what seems to be the intent of so many. That restored books must either be shunned altogether or drastically reduced in price so they're more affordable to those who can't afford unrestored.

 

WHile that would still be the case with heavily restored books, more information would and should make books with less restoration more valuable than ones with heavy restoration. There's nothing wrong with calling the Marvel 1 restored and saying also that the level of restoration is so minimal it should be far more valuable than one that is heavily restored.

 

It all comes back to the same siomple principle. More information helps the market by giving people the ability to make informed decisions

[showcase4]

yes, I understand....and I have quite a few comics possibly to your suprise that may never go up in value, and I don't care because I love them for what they are.

 

yup. and 2 of your biggest are from circa 1842!! : )

 

ba-da=BING!

 

....... these didn't exactly fall in the "don't care if they go up in value" category

[Apotheosis]

It may not have been your intent but this plays into what seems to be the intent of so many. That restored books must either be shunned altogether or drastically reduced in price so they're more affordable to those who can't afford unrestored.

 

Not what I said in the slightest. I said that there are people that don't like restored so it doesn't matter to them. I also said that there are people that like restored because it makes things more affordable. <------ That statement doesn't say anything about making them ridiculously cheap because they're restored. It says they're cheaper than a non-restored. This is why people (me) keep having a problem with your arguement... you keep flying to the extreme when that's not what the person said.

 

WHile that would still be the case with heavily restored books, more information would and should make books with less restoration more valuable than ones with heavy restoration.

 

And I think that if you watch you will see that something labeled as moderate or extensive restoration sells for less than one that says slight restoration. While it's nowhere near the level of info that people want, it does at least give them an inkling of how much was done and the prices reflect that some.

[bluechip]

<<<<<<< you keep flying to the extreme when that's not what the person said.>>>>

 

Sorry you took it that way. If you look close you'll see I took pains (obviously not enough) to say I didn't think you were making that leap but that some people have in the past made precisxely that leap. What you're hearing from me is not, I feel, an extreme view but a reaction to extreme views. For instance, when people talked about ADDING information about restored books, I was flabbergasted to hear anti-restoration people actually incensed at the notion and determined to make the info as ambiguous as possible. You don't seem to fall into that category, but it seems whenever a reaosonable person says something like "i don't care personally what it looked like before," there comes a flurry of unreasonable people saying that is proof that nobody wants the information or that because they consider it irrelevant than even people who do want the information should be denied it.

[Apotheosis]

Ok gotcha! I agree with everything above you just said/typed.

[showcase4]

Bluechip,

Care to share some info with us about yourself? I know from how you post you've been around from quite some time and know your stuff.

Maybe not your name if that's past your comfort level, but things like:

 

years in the hobby:

collecting interests:

best book you ever bought:

dealer or collector:

favorite book:

pet peaves:

things you'd like to see change in the hobby:

 

 

...that sorta thing

[action1kid]

Its just my personal preference.Speaking solely for myself If im going to spend 200k on a comicbook, I dont want a dot of color touch or glue on it.I mean, thats the least you should expect for that kind of money.With that said, I have recently turned down an offer to buy a Detective # 27[bLUE HOLDER 7.0 ] with slight glue only on it.The problem is he wanted the same exact premium that a TOTALLY UNRESTORED Detective # 27 should have gotten.I dont think the book should be Tomohawked in value at all but there should be a discount of some kind from a totally unrestored book.I just cant accept restoration in any form or amount at these levels of collecting.

[action1kid]

At these levels of colecting there is only 1 situation where I would accept restoration and that is if it were a one of a kind item ,for example a really important piece of artwork[like the art cover to a golden age key]. Again Im speaking for myself.There are no laws of the Universe here ok.

[action1kid]

Remember just because a book is in a blue label holder does not mean that it is unrestored! Seems obvious to seasoned collectors but that isnt the case with new people comming into this hobby.They are making this mistake .

[adamstrange]

<<<<<<< you keep flying to the extreme when that's not what the person said.>>>>

 

Sorry you took it that way. If you look close you'll see I took pains (obviously not enough) to say I didn't think you were making that leap but that some people have in the past made precisxely that leap. What you're hearing from me is not, I feel, an extreme view but a reaction to extreme views. For instance, when people talked about ADDING information about restored books, I was flabbergasted to hear anti-restoration people actually incensed at the notion and determined to make the info as ambiguous as possible. You don't seem to fall into that category, but it seems whenever a reaosonable person says something like "i don't care personally what it looked like before," there comes a flurry of unreasonable people saying that is proof that nobody wants the information or that because they consider it irrelevant than even people who do want the information should be denied it.

 

You may be responding to extreme views you've heard "somewhere", but as several of us have pointed out, it's not here or from us (exception for Showcase4 previously noted ).

 

So, while you're here, any chance you can spend a little time to post some scans?

 

[ciorac]

<<<<<<<<<<<It would be great if CGC could start a seachable online database for restored books with the specifics of the work done. Such a database wouldn't give away their grading standards. Just what they found in the way of restoration. Since they input all that info into a computer anyway you would think that they could just upload it to the web.>>>>>>>>>

 

 

More info is always better than less. And in this case it's all info you'd had to discover durimng the grading and detection process anyway, so why not list it?

And I'd say that in addition, wherever possible, all restored books should be accompanied with pics of the books in its original state.

 

I only use Matt Nelson for restoration, but he always includes a detailed report of what was done to the book, inlcuding pictures with notes written on them to show where the work was done. Very thorough.

[bluechip]

<<<<<<<years in the hobby:

collecting interests:

best book you ever bought:

dealer or collector:

favorite book:

pet peaves:

things you'd like to see change in the hobby>>>>

 

 

Name is Bob, collecting off and on over thirty years. favorite char, spider-man; favorite old book collected, action 1. grew up on silver age but never was willing to spend much on back issues because I saw they were so common, but of course would change that now if I could. most back issues bought have been golden age and the characters I knew growing up, but discovered later and enjoy the ww2 and atomic age, anti-commie stuff. peeves would mostly be the shifting standards for grading, resto, etc that sometimes seem engineered to inflate or deflate books. On the same note frustrated by overstreet guide which deserves much priase for getting things started but lately sometimes gets it so wrong it seems they don't want to get it right. .Hope that covers it

[bluechip]

I'd be curious to know how much you were quoted on the restored detective 27 that you felt was what it should have been unrestored. One thing that makes it hard to guage value of restored books is that it's hard to guage value of unrestored books. If an unrestored in grade goes for way above guide, then it might be reasonable for a seller to feel the guide should not be the deciding factor about a restored copy, either. More so, I'd think, in the lower grades than in the higher.