Durden08 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I gotta go with the presentable 4.0 TEC #27 over the fugly 3.0 Action #1 in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacentaur Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 You would think accurately nailing down color page would be the easiest part of grading...much simpler than resto detection and assigning a technical grade. Exactly correct, but I suspect it is all part of the 'game' - while CGC has tightened their grading standards, their page quality standards have slipped of late. Why? Because page quality is becoming increasingly more important to buyers... and CGC has always been geared towards SELLERS. But then I turn around and crack a small label book that's listed off-white to white and it is very BROWN on the inside. Go figure. Either way, collector confidence isn't helped out any. But then again we have little choice. Place our trust in the Greed Merchants with their lack of disclosure and lack of morals?...uh, no thanks. STEVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttock Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 So it seems that Detective 27 and Action 1 always win when put up against others. Time to ban those from this thread? Let's match 'em up against each other for the 1st time in this thread...(.I think) Both sold several years ago for approx. $48,000. Which Grail would you choose? Action 1 graders notes: "small donor piece added to 1st wrap with tape" ........................or I'll weigh in after you guys on this one If I subbed that Action 1, I would have thought I won the lotto. 3.0 with a taped spine?!?!? I had a Whiz 1 with slightly brittle pages at the spine and a clean split. My friend told me I should tape the spine and submit it because both the grade and PQ would go up. Little did I know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFury Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I'd go with the Tec 27. I don't like tape to begin with, and I think the Action was probably a 2.0 and the tape brought it up to a 3.0. Besides, I like Batman a heck of a lot more than Superman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrael Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 tec27 cuz bats is better then supes! Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 What a unanimous decision on taking Tec 27 over Action 1. Well, it's obvious what i'd pick.. It's my dream to own a tec 27 someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 What a unanimous decision on taking Tec 27 over Action 1. Well, it's obvious what i'd pick.. It's my dream to own a tec 27 someday hello all... B, I think I will have an extra one when you are ready (3-4 years or sooner?), I am sure we can work something out rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1koko Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Tec #27. The Action #1 to be has been given a gift grade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennynike1 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I gotta say Action Comics #1 all the way!! Just kidding. For sure the first appearance of Batman, dust shadow aside. I would take a 2.0 Action #1 without tape over the 4.0 Detective though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 So it seems that Detective 27 and Action 1 always win when put up against others. Time to ban those from this thread? Let's match 'em up against each other for the 1st time in this thread...(.I think) Both sold several years ago for approx. $48,000. Which Grail would you choose? Action 1 graders notes: "small donor piece added to 1st wrap with tape" ........................or I'll weigh in after you guys on this one Time for a I'd pass on both for the price. Here is why. As many of you know, I am a devout slab cracker. After cracking dozens of these things, here is what I have learned: As it relates to page quality - If the label says - WHITE pages ----- expect Off-white (in some cases- cream to off-white. If the label says - Off-White to WHITE pages --- expect Cream to Off-White or Cream If the label says - Cream to Off-white -- Expect them to be slightly brittle and tan Anything else -- back away from the book Since both of these books have "cream to off-white" on the label, and the bottom left corner of the Tec 27 looks brittle, along with its tan exposed corner, I'd pass. Now that begs the question, do the holders cause rapid page deterioration? Or do I just have a different interpretation of white, off-white, etc pages are? Finally, someone that has had a similar experience to mine! I stay away from anything below off-white, but that is only for very special books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 hello all... I have always accepted cream to off white or better on the cgc label....I have sent in about 40 GA Bats so far, and I noted page quality on most all, and CGC came back with virtually identical listings (if I thought white, then I got white, if I had off white, or cream to off white, pretty much in every case that is what it came back with)...only on one, did I note light tan to cream, that came back cream to off white... so, that begs to answer the question, do the holders advance page issues? rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 hello all... I have always accepted cream to off white or better on the cgc label....I have sent in about 40 GA Bats so far, and I noted page quality on most all, and CGC came back with virtually identical listings (if I thought white, then I got white, if I had off white, or cream to off white, pretty much in every case that is what it came back with)...only on one, did I note light tan to cream, that came back cream to off white... so, that begs to answer the question, do the holders advance page issues? rick Maybe that is the central question. And if it is, it needs to be tested and discovered immediately. Paging Selegue!!! CGC should contract Jack to run the chemical analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selegue Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 hello all... I have always accepted cream to off white or better on the cgc label....I have sent in about 40 GA Bats so far, and I noted page quality on most all, and CGC came back with virtually identical listings (if I thought white, then I got white, if I had off white, or cream to off white, pretty much in every case that is what it came back with)...only on one, did I note light tan to cream, that came back cream to off white... so, that begs to answer the question, do the holders advance page issues? rick Maybe that is the central question. And if it is, it needs to be tested and discovered immediately. Paging Selegue!!! CGC should contract Jack to run the chemical analysis. Bill paged me on a PM. This isn't a thread that I usually look at because the books are out of my league. I've wondered about whether enclosing the pages accelerates browning too. I'm satisfied now that the materials (do I remember right that the inside layer is Barex?) should be archivally safe. The upside of slabbing the little darlings is that less oxygen gets at them, which should slow down browning. On the other hand, IF the browning has already started, then the cellulose is already producing acetic acid (part of that "old pulp" smell that comic-book collectors love, even though it's eating their books!). Unless the acid is vented, it catalyzes further breakdown of the paper, producing more acid, and so on. How much buffer does a sheet of microchamber paper have in it? Overall, that's yet another reason why I don't collect slabbed comic books. (Except for my wonderful Marvel Spotlight 25 CGC 9.6 that I'm sure someone out there is clamoring for.) Probably the analysis to run would be to periodically sample the atmosphere inside slabs with a browning comic, a new comic and empty over time. If the acetic acid level rises in the slab with the browning comic book, that's a problem. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 hello all... I have always accepted cream to off white or better on the cgc label....I have sent in about 40 GA Bats so far, and I noted page quality on most all, and CGC came back with virtually identical listings (if I thought white, then I got white, if I had off white, or cream to off white, pretty much in every case that is what it came back with)...only on one, did I note light tan to cream, that came back cream to off white... so, that begs to answer the question, do the holders advance page issues? rick Maybe that is the central question. And if it is, it needs to be tested and discovered immediately. Paging Selegue!!! CGC should contract Jack to run the chemical analysis. Bill paged me on a PM. This isn't a thread that I usually look at because the books are out of my league. I've wondered about whether enclosing the pages accelerates browning too. I'm satisfied now that the materials (do I remember right that the inside layer is Barex?) should be archivally safe. The upside of slabbing the little darlings is that less oxygen gets at them, which should slow down browning. On the other hand, IF the browning has already started, then the cellulose is already producing acetic acid (part of that "old pulp" smell that comic-book collectors love, even though it's eating their books!). Unless the acid is vented, it catalyzes further breakdown of the paper, producing more acid, and so on. How much buffer does a sheet of microchamber paper have in it? Overall, that's yet another reason why I don't collect slabbed comic books. (Except for my wonderful Marvel Spotlight 25 CGC 9.6 that I'm sure someone out there is clamoring for.) Probably the analysis to run would be to periodically sample the atmosphere inside slabs with a browning comic, a new comic and empty over time. If the acetic acid level rises in the slab with the browning comic book, that's a problem. Jack Brilliant Doctor Selegue! I remember a similar problem with the "Fortress" holder of Pedrin fame ten years ago. They were all the rage, until it was learned that the lack of venting, even in the face of dessicants, etc, aided in the breakdown of the pages. Rarely are snow white books victims of this process unless stored poorly (a la Burrel Rowe). But I fear the same fate may await the CGC slab if ventilation is not introduced. Some may remember when Chris debuted the Fortress at San Diego by proving just how airtight they were, he immersed a Fortressed Whiz #2(1) in an aquarium. Little did he know that the airtight nature of the holder made the book "feed" on itself. Open top mylars, good storage conditions, or a basement in Denver, are all you need to keep your lovelies looking lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filter81 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Some may remember when Chris debuted the Fortress at San Diego by proving just how airtight they were, he immersed a Fortressed Whiz #2(1) in an aquarium. Little did he know that the airtight nature of the holder made the book "feed" on itself. Did that problem get fixed at some point? Or are fortresses still bad to use? I have a few nice books sitting in fortresses right now including a Cap 1 and my All Select 1 9.4. Should I switch them to mylars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 hello all... I have always accepted cream to off white or better on the cgc label....I have sent in about 40 GA Bats so far, and I noted page quality on most all, and CGC came back with virtually identical listings (if I thought white, then I got white, if I had off white, or cream to off white, pretty much in every case that is what it came back with)...only on one, did I note light tan to cream, that came back cream to off white... so, that begs to answer the question, do the holders advance page issues? rick Maybe that is the central question. And if it is, it needs to be tested and discovered immediately. Paging Selegue!!! CGC should contract Jack to run the chemical analysis. Bill paged me on a PM. This isn't a thread that I usually look at because the books are out of my league. I've wondered about whether enclosing the pages accelerates browning too. I'm satisfied now that the materials (do I remember right that the inside layer is Barex?) should be archivally safe. The upside of slabbing the little darlings is that less oxygen gets at them, which should slow down browning. On the other hand, IF the browning has already started, then the cellulose is already producing acetic acid (part of that "old pulp" smell that comic-book collectors love, even though it's eating their books!). Unless the acid is vented, it catalyzes further breakdown of the paper, producing more acid, and so on. How much buffer does a sheet of microchamber paper have in it? Overall, that's yet another reason why I don't collect slabbed comic books. (Except for my wonderful Marvel Spotlight 25 CGC 9.6 that I'm sure someone out there is clamoring for.) Probably the analysis to run would be to periodically sample the atmosphere inside slabs with a browning comic, a new comic and empty over time. If the acetic acid level rises in the slab with the browning comic book, that's a problem. Jack hello all... holy cow, how many genius do we have here...I am feeling all 3rd grade again man, I love this stuff rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Some may remember when Chris debuted the Fortress at San Diego by proving just how airtight they were, he immersed a Fortressed Whiz #2(1) in an aquarium. Little did he know that the airtight nature of the holder made the book "feed" on itself. Did that problem get fixed at some point? Or are fortresses still bad to use? I have a few nice books sitting in fortresses right now including a Cap 1 and my All Select 1 9.4. Should I switch them to mylars? YES!!! Tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 hello all... I have always accepted cream to off white or better on the cgc label....I have sent in about 40 GA Bats so far, and I noted page quality on most all, and CGC came back with virtually identical listings (if I thought white, then I got white, if I had off white, or cream to off white, pretty much in every case that is what it came back with)...only on one, did I note light tan to cream, that came back cream to off white... so, that begs to answer the question, do the holders advance page issues? rick Maybe that is the central question. And if it is, it needs to be tested and discovered immediately. Paging Selegue!!! CGC should contract Jack to run the chemical analysis. Bill paged me on a PM. This isn't a thread that I usually look at because the books are out of my league. I've wondered about whether enclosing the pages accelerates browning too. I'm satisfied now that the materials (do I remember right that the inside layer is Barex?) should be archivally safe. The upside of slabbing the little darlings is that less oxygen gets at them, which should slow down browning. On the other hand, IF the browning has already started, then the cellulose is already producing acetic acid (part of that "old pulp" smell that comic-book collectors love, even though it's eating their books!). Unless the acid is vented, it catalyzes further breakdown of the paper, producing more acid, and so on. How much buffer does a sheet of microchamber paper have in it? Overall, that's yet another reason why I don't collect slabbed comic books. (Except for my wonderful Marvel Spotlight 25 CGC 9.6 that I'm sure someone out there is clamoring for.) Probably the analysis to run would be to periodically sample the atmosphere inside slabs with a browning comic, a new comic and empty over time. If the acetic acid level rises in the slab with the browning comic book, that's a problem. Jack hello all... holy cow, how many genius do we have here...I am feeling all 3rd grade again man, I love this stuff rick Not sure about "genius", but Selegue, batman_fan, myself and scrooge (i believe) are all scientists. See, not just Lawyers and Comic book shop owners/dealers on these boards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Not sure about "genius", but Selegue, batman_fan, myself and scrooge (i believe) are all scientists. See, not just Lawyers and Comic book shop owners/dealers on these boards! hello all... outstanding, a wonderful diverse and somewhat eclectic group of folks we have here...now, I got to get back to my ciphering rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selegue Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 ... hello all... holy cow, how many genius do we have here...I am feeling all 3rd grade again man, I love this stuff rick Not sure about "genius", but Selegue, batman_fan, myself and scrooge (i believe) are all scientists. See, not just Lawyers and Comic book shop owners/dealers on these boards! You fraud. You're a friggin' engineer! :-) Jack (Why is the subject line stagedoorjohnny?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
