Questions for CGC and the Liason Committee

[OldGuy]

I think that would still be an improvement over purple. In a male dominated hobby such as comics.....you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that CGC didn't realize that the majority wouldn't want a purple collection of slabs.

 

Had they went with red instead.....I think the current market for restored slabs would be completely different.

 

You're not serious, are you? You think that restored books have suffered not because they are restored, not because CGC gave them a different color label, but rather because the color CGC chose for that different color label is purple? And that CGC conciously chose the color purple knowing that the color itself, not the fact that the books are restored, would depress prices? If PLODs were RLODs (Red Label of Doom), you think the market for restored books would be completely different? Maybe I'm missing the sarcasm gremlin?

 

Purple is the color of royalty...the imperial robes of Roman emperors were purple...Crown Royal comes in a purple box...Deep Purple...Purple Haze...Purple Rain...okay, maybe not Purple Rain but you get the idea! up

 

He11, slabs, regardless of the label color, are ugly and make books less desireable to me.

[Davenport]

 

So why not make the Universal label pink? Surely this would have zero impact on the desirability of unrestored slabs....

 

Only if it has hello kitties on it

 

[grider67]

Nice job Davenport!

 

There you go DeeDee.

[DeeDee-migration]

 

So why not make the Universal label pink? Surely this would have zero impact on the desirability of unrestored slabs....

 

Only if it has hello kitties on it

 

 

Good God! That is absolute PERFECTION!

[Karma23]

 

So why not make the Universal label pink? Surely this would have zero impact on the desirability of unrestored slabs....

 

Only if it has hello kitties on it

 

 

Good God! That is absolute PERFECTION!

Oh...My....GAWD! The end is truly nigh

[awe4one]

But people who say the labels aren't creating the effrect are the same people yelling the loudest to keep the labels.

 

The reason people are advocating keeping the label is because it serves an important purpose...identifying restored slabbed books. And the current set-up serves that purpose perfectly well...

 

Jim

[bluechip]

But people who say the labels aren't creating the effrect are the same people yelling the loudest to keep the labels.

 

The reason people are advocating keeping the label is because it serves an important purpose...identifying restored slabbed books. And the current set-up serves that purpose perfectly well...

 

Jim

 

 

I have not heard anyone explain why, even if you presume the absolute need to spot a restored book from across an aisle, it would make that impossible if the book had a large R next to the grade (just as books did before).

 

Nor have heard anyone explain how identification is helped with a colored label when it is abundantly clear that the people most interested in identifying restored books are precisely the same people who feel that too many books are getting the universal label even though they are, in their minds, restored.

 

As for me implying anything, I don't kow what I'm saying that doesn't reflect the posts I've seen here. The people who have said the purple label isn't what makes people avoid restored books are genreally (in fact, almost without exceptioon) the same people who say the purple label should be kept.

 

And with almost as few exceptions, the same people who say they need and must be able to spot the book from far away also indicate they would not be happy with a designation of say an R next to the big grade number which does the same thing.

 

That is smply how the responses and posts lay out. If it leads to any conclusions as to who wants the label and/or why it is the readers who are making that interence.

 

If I was to read an implication from your post, I'd guess that when you talk about "identying" restored books you mean in order to avoid them.

 

That's what makes the purple label so specific and open to the inference that it was done with the intent to diminish them. It was never argued that people would want or need to identify them except to avoid them.

 

I avoid books for all kinds of reasons and not a one of them is identified by a specific color label.

 

Prior to PLODs, disclosed restored books were identified in a way I understood immediately. It had a greade and beside it the letter R (then usually with more details.)

 

 

I am sure there are people who wuold not be happy with that. And I am just as sure that most if not all the people would be the same people who insist restored books should and must be priced lower than other eople were willing to pay for them before the PLOD.

[awe4one]

I don't kow what I'm saying that doesn't reflect the posts I've seen here. The people who have said the purple label isn't what makes people avoid restored books are genreally (in fact, almost without exceptioon) the same people who say the purple label should be kept.

 

Sure...because the label is useful to them. They don't want restored comics and when buying slabs are happy with the current set-up CGC has in-place to help them.

 

And with almost as few exceptions, the same people who say they need and must be able to spot the book from far away also indicate they would not be happy with a designation of say an R next to the big grade number which does the same thing.

 

That's because, and this has been said by many many posters to you in this thread, that the current label set-up is adequate for them. There's no need to change. It perfectly simple. Blue is unrestored. Purple is restored. Green is qualified. And Yellow is sig series. That works for us so any melding of colors is simply counter-productive in my opinion.

 

Maybe your conclusion that the fact the Purple label in itself is hurting the comic should be re-examined? I've asked twice now for someone to give some concrete examples of same for same comics that were hurt by the Purple label instead of relying on innuendo or antedotal evidence. I'm still waiting...

 

Jim

[bluechip]

[quoteThere's no need to change. It perfectly simple. Blue is unrestored. Purple is restored. Green is qualified. And Yellow is sig series. That works for us so any melding of colors is simply counter-productive in my opinion.

 

Maybe your conclusion that the fact the Purple label in itself is hurting the comic should be re-examined? I've asked twice now for someone to give some concrete examples of same for same comics that were hurt by the Purple label instead of relying on innuendo or antedotal evidence. I'm still waiting...

 

Jim

 

If you have read these boards you have seen many posters say that PLODs have caused a drop in prices. And as I posted recently, Steve Borock was quoted saying the same thing.

 

If you haven't read those posts, there are many within this same thread. If you have, then I don't understand why you're asking and then ppiting out that you're "still waiting."

 

As for the statement <<<< It perfectly simple. Blue is unrestored. Purple is restored>>> it has also been made clear on these same boards that many of the most ardent restoration-haters would disagree completely that a blue label means it is unrestored as they define it.

[awe4one]

If you have read these boards you have seen many posters say that PLODs have caused a drop in prices. And as I posted recently, Steve Borock was quoted saying the same thing.

 

Where did he say this? I have looked through this thread again and don't see it. Not saying it's not here but at 30 pages it's probably not hard to miss at this point.

 

If you have, then I don't understand why you're asking and then ppiting out that you're "still waiting."

 

Because no one has followed-up the assertion with concrete examples. All the evidence so far has been innuendo and antedotal. Like I posted previously, I'm not so sure the whole "Purple is Bad" hasn't gained traction because it's been repeated so much people are taking it as fact...

 

As for the statement <<<< It perfectly simple. Blue is unrestored. Purple is restored>>> it has also been made clear on these same boards that many of the most ardent restoration-haters would disagree completely that a blue label means it is unrestored as they define it.

 

I'd agree there for sure...but that's a problem to address with CGC's grading NOT the color of a label...

 

Jim

[codfish]

 

If you have read these boards you have seen many posters say that PLODs have caused a drop in prices. And as I posted recently, Steve Borock was quoted saying the same thing.

 

The "evidence" you refer to is all anecdotal. I have not seen one hard example. Sure restored prices have not gone up but I have not seen one example of one restored book selling for one price before being purple labeled and getting a lower price after. As well there is no evidence what so ever that it is the colour of the label that is hurting prices of purple label books.

 

If you haven't read those posts, there are many within this same thread. If you have, then I don't understand why you're asking and then ppiting out that you're "still waiting."

 

Of the posts I have read all the evidence that it is the colour that affects prices of books is comparing blue restored book to purple which is an apples to oranges comparison. The blue have very slight resto while most, if not all, purples have considerably more resto. To compare the two woud be like comparing the realized prices of two cars from the same year with drastically different body conditions and mileage.

 

As for the statement <<<< It perfectly simple. Blue is unrestored. Purple is restored>>> it has also been made clear on these same boards that many of the most ardent restoration-haters would disagree completely that a blue label means it is unrestored as they define it.

 

LOTS of people think unrestored, sorry they EXPECT unrestored from a blue label book. The fact that you acknowledge that blue label does not make a book restoration free is a HUGE part of the problem with CGC's standards. However, it does not change the fact that blue is SUPPOSED to mean unrestored while purple means restored.

 

I would also like to point out again that the entire argument to dispose the purple label is based on fiscal reasons which is something CGC has no business in.

[codfish]

 

So why not make the Universal label pink? Surely this would have zero impact on the desirability of unrestored slabs....

 

Only if it has hello kitties on it

 

 

That is awesome! How could anyone hate that label.

[MutantKeys]

 

So why not make the Universal label pink? Surely this would have zero impact on the desirability of unrestored slabs....

 

Only if it has hello kitties on it

 

[bluechip]

LOTS of people think unrestored, sorry they EXPECT unrestored from a blue label book. The fact that you acknowledge that blue label does not make a book restoration free is a HUGE part of the problem with CGC's standards. However, it does not change the fact that blue is SUPPOSED to mean unrestored while purple means restored.

 

I would also like to point out again that the entire argument to dispose the purple label is based on fiscal reasons which is something CGC has no business in.

 

I think the problem with the standards could be better fixed by identiying everything that is done to a book -- period. The presence of a special "bad" color is not needed to ID restoration and instead of making things simpler it has generated disagreement and controvery over what makes it qualify for the color. If everything was disclosed free of "bad" colors, there would be far less controvery.

 

And that is just of the many arguments for disposing of the purple label. I had only erferenced the financial aspect after other people brought it up.

 

So it is, I am sorry to say, completely inaccurate to say the "entire argument to dispose of the purple label is based on fiscal reasons."

 

And since many people have expressed on this board that their greatest satisfaction with the purple label comes from fiscal reasons, it seems like the PROPONENTS .of the purple label are the ones making the most insistent and consisten5t argument that fiscal considerations are not only CGC"s business but even CGC obligation to deliver a label that alters perception AND prices.

[awe4one]

And since many people have expressed on this board that their greatest satisfaction with the purple label comes from fiscal reasons, it seems like the PROPONENTS .of the purple label are the ones making the most insistent and consisten5t argument that fiscal considerations are not only CGC"s business but even CGC obligation to deliver a label that alters perception AND prices.

 

Is this paragraph supposed to make sense because you've completely lost me. What are you trying to say? Because if I'm reading it correctly you're saying people are proponents and want a purple label due to the fact, or fallacy in my opinion unless someone can come up with some tangible evidence to support the Purple is Bad argument, they like the effect the label has had on prices.

 

If that is indeed what you meant to write, I'd say you're seriously misguided as I haven't seen that view from the mass majority who've argued in support of the Purple label...

 

Jim

[bluechip]

And since many people have expressed on this board that their greatest satisfaction with the purple label comes from fiscal reasons, it seems like the PROPONENTS .of the purple label are the ones making the most insistent and consisten5t argument that fiscal considerations are not only CGC"s business but even CGC obligation to deliver a label that alters perception AND prices.

 

Is this paragraph supposed to make sense because you've completely lost me. What are you trying to say? Because if I'm reading it correctly you're saying people are proponents and want a purple label due to the fact, or fallacy in my opinion unless someone can come up with some tangible evidence to support the Purple is Bad argument, they like the effect the label has had on prices.

 

If that is indeed what you meant to write, I'd say you're seriously misguided as I haven't seen that view from the mass majority who've argued in support of the Purple label...

 

Jim

 

Numerous posters have expressed the opinion that restored books should be cheaper (not jsut that they are but that they should be). Numerous posters have said that the PLOD helps them get them cheaper. Others have said they have made the books cheaper than they should be (and some echo buy them while you can). And a couple of posters have said they are worried that without the purple label people will not be as interested in and willing to pay as much for unrestored books. Similar posts have beeb made throughout the last year on this board and all of those opinions have been reflected in posts here on these boards in recent weeks.

[ciorac]

And since many people have expressed on this board that their greatest satisfaction with the purple label comes from fiscal reasons, it seems like the PROPONENTS .of the purple label are the ones making the most insistent and consisten5t argument that fiscal considerations are not only CGC"s business but even CGC obligation to deliver a label that alters perception AND prices.

 

Is this paragraph supposed to make sense because you've completely lost me. What are you trying to say? Because if I'm reading it correctly you're saying people are proponents and want a purple label due to the fact, or fallacy in my opinion unless someone can come up with some tangible evidence to support the Purple is Bad argument, they like the effect the label has had on prices.

 

If that is indeed what you meant to write, I'd say you're seriously misguided as I haven't seen that view from the mass majority who've argued in support of the Purple label...

 

Jim

 

Numerous posters have expressed the opinion that restored books should be cheaper (not jsut that they are but that they should be). Numerous posters have said that the PLOD helps them get them cheaper. Others have said they have made the books cheaper than they should be (and some echo buy them while you can). And a couple of posters have said they are worried that without the purple label people will not be as interested in and willing to pay as much for unrestored books. Similar posts have beeb made throughout the last year on this board and all of those opinions have been reflected in posts here on these boards in recent weeks.

 

Shouldn't they be though Bob? Comparably graded book unrestored vs. restored copy? Of course.

 

Label color is unimportant. Implementing a solid restoration scale is paramount. Any other arguments. in my opinion, are just a waste of bandwidth. Arguing about why something happened or what someone was thinking when they chose a color or their motive is not productive.

 

Implementing a restoration scale that accurately categorizes the work on a book is very topical to this discussion and sorely needed in the hobby. I have in the past, and do publicly offer now to spearhead this project. And will fast track it with the green light from CGC. I have experts in the field lined up and ready to go.

[awe4one]

Numerous posters have expressed the opinion that restored books should be cheaper (not jsut that they are but that they should be). Numerous posters have said that the PLOD helps them get them cheaper. Others have said they have made the books cheaper than they should be (and some echo buy them while you can). And a couple of posters have said they are worried that without the purple label people will not be as interested in and willing to pay as much for unrestored books. Similar posts have beeb made throughout the last year on this board and all of those opinions have been reflected in posts here on these boards in recent weeks.

 

I think you're confusing people's opinion of how and why they buy or don't slabbed restored books with a belief they actively encourage the PLOD just to keep their cost down. I haven't seen that for the majority of posters who support the PLOD. They usually suggest they bought a comic for lower than what they thought a restored copy would go for or are happy they can buy a comic in which an unrestored copy would be out of their budget. Not the same thing as you're suggesting...

 

Jim

[Scheradon]

Purple is great.

And Purple is manly there........ I said it.

 

My Camero Z28 is purple. There's nothing wrong with purple

 

I obviously like purple, but have no desire for restored books, not because of the color of the label, but because they are restored books.

 

I've sat here reading this discussion and it really cracks me up that there are people who are blaming the color of a restored label on the stigmatizing, devaluing, or otherwise tarnishing of restored books.

 

Seriously, I would always avoid or pay less for restored books over non-restored books. Now take this line of thinking and multiply it across the marketplace and you have your devaluation of restored books. Doesn't matter what color the label is or if there even is a label as long as it's disclosed. Same end result.

[bluechip]

Purple is great.

And Purple is manly there........ I said it.

 

My Camero Z28 is purple. There's nothing wrong with purple

 

I obviously like purple, but have no desire for restored books, not because of the color of the label, but because they are restored books.

 

I've sat here reading this discussion and it really cracks me up that there are people who are blaming the color of a restored label on the stigmatizing, devaluing, or otherwise tarnishing of restored books.

 

Seriously, I would always avoid or pay less for restored books over non-restored books. Now take this line of thinking and multiply it across the marketplace and you have your devaluation of restored books. Doesn't matter what color the label is or if there even is a label as long as it's disclosed. Same end result.

 

 

The way it was before, without the purple label, the "end result" was different.

 

Not just because of the color, but because people could examine the book for themselves and distinguish between them.

 

That's according to lots of people. And saying it isn't so doesn't change it.

 

But that aside, if you really BELIEVE -- despite everytrhing to contrary -- that it would not be different, then why not go for a designation that is just as easy to spot and doesn't include a colored label and doesn't leave the situation open for endless debate and disagreement over what does or doesn't deserve the "bad" label

 

 

 

 

 

If you believe it wouldn't be different, then .