Golden Age Collection 22 22

[Sqeggs]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:02 PM, sfcityduck said:

I will give you a story about something I think is near to his heart.  I discovered this while researching Dave Wigransky of Washington D.C. as I wanted to find out where his legendary collection went and to make sure that BZ's collection wasn't originally Wigransky's.

As you probably know, BZ once said that the 2,000+ lot of his most impressive books came to him after they were pulled from a garbage can by someone who sold them to him.  But, BZ learned who the original owner ("OO") was because his name and address was written in some of the books. And BZ once stated the OO had the initials "WTG."  In another post BZ stated he had several groups of books that came from OOs, and he rattled off some of the names including "Gilchrist."

BZ also said that the OO purchased his books from Campbell's Bros. in D.C. 

There was a William T. Gilchrist who the 1940 census shows lived in Central DC.  He was about 10 in 1940.  And in 1940:

• William T. Gilchrist lived at 622 Massachusetts Ave. N.E., Washington D.C.;  
• BZ said the Campbell Bros. where the comics were bought was at 8th & C, Washington D.C.;
• There's a mere five minute walk between the house and the drugstore if you walk down 8th and around the corner to Mass. Ave; and 
• BZ once said: "One day, approximately 20 years after purchasing the collection, ... my wife and I made a point to drive by the spot where Campbell Bros had been in business. Not surprisingly the store was long since gone, but decals advertising various 1930s/40s items were still on the windows. I took photographs of the storefront and then we walked around the corner to where the original owner of the comics had lived."
• BZ said he walked over to the house of the OO (my recollection is it was a medical office) and was able to walk through it and get a sense of where the OO lived.

I'm guessing, though, that the books were discovered at a different address in 1970s.  BZ did not learn the OO's address from the seller who would have known where they came from.  And William T. Gilchrist died in Maryland in 1963 and his wife died in Maryland in 1973 (which would be consistent with the books being sold to BZ in the early 70s).

That's the back story on BZ's best books, I think.  Remember you read it here first!  (Recently an auctioneer borrowed from my thread on Wigransky without attribution for a lot description and so did a bookseller for a description of a HC book I was buying from him (no discount for providing the ad copy) - so I'm sensitive).

P.S.  What's amazing about that ad BZ took out selling books back around 1967 is that he was selling a Superman 1. At that point in time he hadn't picked up the Gilchrist collection yet. My impression is that his Supes 1 came from the Gilchrist lot, and what little I saw of it in the pic he posted (and the great copies of other early Supes) makes me think it was very nice. I get the impression he upgraded his Supes 1 several times.

The big mystery is does he have have an Action 1?  I would not bet that the man who owns the check paid to Shuster for his work on Action 1 does not have an Action 1.  I'd love to see his biggest books. The "lesser" books I've seen pictured on this site and elsewhere are just so impressive!  

 

Terrific detective work. An example of what makes these boards the best source of information on GA collecting that there is.

[sfcityduck]

Because they never get old:

For those that like to daydream.  Here's something BZ once said:

Quote

In theory, I like the idea of comic pedigrees, unfortunately in practice it becomes a little less fun for me. Probably 95% of my collection was purchased from original owners. The 'pedigrees' in my collection are not known by fandom, they're only known by me. When I look at most of my comics, I can spot the Kolmorgan, Foote, Starr, Clarke, and Gilchrist issues immediately. It makes the collecting a little more special.

 

[Robot Man]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:35 PM, sfcityduck said:

Because they never get old:

For those that like to daydream.  Here's something BZ once said:

 

Thanks for posting those. I believe I have them saved as well. I remember thinking those books were just sitting in what looked like old cleaner’s bags with no backing boards.

I share his view on “pedigrees”. Like any long time collector, I have my own “pedigree” collections that I have found over the years in the wild. A few very large ones that are for the most part still intact.

Anybody have any pictures of his pulps or art?  I remember him posting them and stating his pulp collection was every bit as important as his comics. 

[sfcityduck]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:01 AM, Robot Man said:

 

Anybody have any pictures of his pulps or art?  I remember him posting them and stating his pulp collection was every bit as important as his comics. 

 

All I got are his Tarzan books and comics.  This thread is helpful for how to try and see pics with broken links:

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by sfcityduck

[plady69]

Yes, this thread set the boards on fire! Thanks for resurrecting it. 
I am sure there a quite a few “old timers” that don’t post here and also have great collections.

[Professor K]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:35 AM, sfcityduck said:

Because they never get old:

For those that like to daydream.  Here's something BZ once said:

 

At first I thought this was photos of Edgar Church's home. I just can't believe what I'm looking at here. X a million. 

[MattTheDuck]

Inspiring and depressing at the same time.

[jimbo_7071]

On 3/1/2023 at 5:08 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Inspiring and depressing at the same time.

Depressing because you feel you have little hope of building a collection that nice? I hear you. I don't sweat it too much, though; I figure I was just born too late to have a realistic chance of building that kind of collection.

[The Black Hand ®]

It was fun living vicariously through Bang Zoom and this thread. The stuff that dreams are made on.

[Marty Mann]

Great Thread!

 

[Marty Mann]

[ageofsilver]

Thanks, BZ, and all the other board members who have contributed to this thread. It has been a spectacular read. Best wishes. 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/30/2016 at 12:28 AM, marmat said:

Imo the Bang Zoom collection deserves the pedigree status

No or Yes or Not Quite. 

The "No": BZ is not an original owner of GA books.  He didn't buy those books off the stands - he bought them in the secondary market, with the best books being purchased in the 1970s. They are like a lot of GA books bought by the guys who started collecting in the early 1960s before pedigrees were a thing - books that came from original owners but that just didn't matter back then.

The "Yes": BZ claimed on this site that he could identify which books were associated with what OOs for certain groupings (he threw out five or six names). For the best books - the 1,000 to 2,000 that came from a Washington D.C. OO that BZ picked up in the early 1970s - BZ has dropped enough hints that I have identified the original owner. However, knowing an OOs name and being able to identify which books belonged to that OO are two different things.  It might be that the only person who could tie specific books to that original owner is BZ himself (maybe other family members could as well depending on if they were stored in a segregated grouping by OO as opposed to by title). We could make some educated guesses based on the pics he posted, but its still a guess.  If BZ (or a family member) doesn't tie down the identification, then his books would have uncertain provenance and are not pedigree worthy. 

The "Not Quite":  Even if the provenance is lost, there's no doubt in my mind that BZ's collection would be deemed a notable "collection" if submitted to CGC. Not only are they great books, but BZ is a noteworthy fellow.  The books are what they are (beautiful high grade GA books) with or without being tied to a specific original owner. And, frankly, I think the tie to BZ and this thread is like a Berk book but on steroids.

 

[marmat]

On 10/2/2023 at 8:12 PM, sfcityduck said:

No or Yes or Not Quite. 

The "No": BZ is not an original owner of GA books.  He didn't buy those books off the stands - he bought them in the secondary market, with the best books being purchased in the 1970s. They are like a lot of GA books bought by the guys who started collecting in the early 1960s before pedigrees were a thing - books that came from original owners but that just didn't matter back then.

The "Yes": BZ claimed on this site that he could identify which books were associated with what OOs for certain groupings (he threw out five or six names). For the best books - the 1,000 to 2,000 that came from a Washington D.C. OO that BZ picked up in the early 1970s - BZ has dropped enough hints that I have identified the original owner. However, knowing an OOs name and being able to identify which books belonged to that OO are two different things.  It might be that the only person who could tie specific books to that original owner is BZ himself (maybe other family members could as well depending on if they were stored in a segregated grouping by OO as opposed to by title). We could make some educated guesses based on the pics he posted, but its still a guess.  If BZ (or a family member) doesn't tie down the identification, then his books would have uncertain provenance and are not pedigree worthy. 

The "Not Quite":  Even if the provenance is lost, there's no doubt in my mind that BZ's collection would be deemed a notable "collection" if submitted to CGC. Not only are they great books, but BZ is a noteworthy fellow.  The books are what they are (beautiful high grade GA books) with or without being tied to a specific original owner. And, frankly, I think the tie to BZ and this thread is like a Berk book but on steroids.

 

Very well exposed, and I agree with you.

But I wish a collection like this could get a special treatment.

Is there a comparable collection out there that you are aware of?

[sfcityduck]

On 10/2/2023 at 11:24 AM, marmat said:

Very well exposed, and I agree with you.

But I wish a collection like this could get a special treatment.

Is there a comparable collection out there that you are aware of?

If you mean are there other collectors sitting on OO groups of GA books which merit pedigree treatment but have not come to market? I think yes. DA reportedly has at least one pedigree worthy OO collection that has disappeared into his Batcave. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the Chinatown Pedigree has been graded but largely not sold by the dealer who was lucky enough to stumble on it, right?

[marmat]

No, I mean if there is another collection out there that is so wide and complete.

I mean, full runs or almost full runs of actually everything.

Batman, Superman, Captain América, Marvel Mystery, you name It.

Come on, the fella has the first Querriman single, first editions Tarzán and what else

And I am sure he has all early Actions, he simply decided to not show them. And I don't blame him.

Actually , sharing his collection was a gift, I am gratefull for that

[marmat]

I remember his Superman 2, like It was printed this morning

[sfcityduck]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:16 PM, marmat said:

No, I mean if there is another collection out there that is so wide and complete.

I mean, full runs or almost full runs of actually everything.

Batman, Superman, Captain América, Marvel Mystery, you name It.

Come on, the fella has the first Querriman single, first editions Tarzán and what else

And I am sure he has all early Actions, he simply decided to not show them. And I don't blame him.

Actually , sharing his collection was a gift, I am gratefull for that

For "so wide and complete" I think also yes.

BZ's collection seemed to focus on the early GA.  What was impressive were his 30s and early 40s books. It is unclear whether he obtained full runs. He was free to admit to gaps in his runs. He also said his best group of books was only 1,000 to 2,000 books. 

Back in the day a number of folks who started collecting in the late 50s and early 60s had extremely broad collections (tens of thousands of books). It seems a safe guess that a number of those collections are still intact. I personally know a guy who has started selling the fringes of such a collection of around 20,000 books of mixed grades (some high grade GA keys are part of that collection). A complete DC collection from inception through 2016 is coming up for auction starting next month but it is largely lower grades. A complete DC collection is known to exist in Vermont (no idea on grades - but the Action 1 looked pretty good in a video).  Both of those were compiled by people who were, like BZ, collectors in the 1960s or later.

And more recently there are the big spenders like Hariri who have paid a lot to get top of the line books.

DA and the Verzyls obviously have large swaths of super-high grade GA comics from the 30s and early to mid 40s. I think they'd probably trump BZ's collection in terms of value at least. 

When you consider what OOs like Church, Larson, Wigransky (who was using some of BZ's comic acquisition tactics a decade or more before BZ did), Mezzopera, etc. did in the 30s through 50s, and what early members of modern comic fandom like Placzek did in the 60s, then I think you have to conclude that BZ's collection is super cool, but it is not historically unique.  It's just a great collection. And I think there's a lot more great collections than most of us know.

 

 

 

 

[sfcityduck]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:16 PM, marmat said:

 

Come on, the fella has the first Querriman single

 

What is that?  

[marmat]

On 10/2/2023 at 10:08 PM, sfcityduck said:

What is that?  

Sorry, I mispelled It.

It is The Quarrymen, the band that later envolved into The Beatles. They published a single in the late 50's, I think It is considered the first Beatles record. And if I remember correctly BZ posted his copy on the thread.

Anybody else remember that?