Pay Copy on Heritage?

[Straw-Man]

I forgot.

 

Trade you my Exciting #30 for it.

 

No can do. But I'll trade you some dead presidents for it.

 

Got a Madison?

 

 

 

is he dead? i must've not read the paper that day.

[whetteon]

I forgot.

 

Trade you my Exciting #30 for it.

 

No can do. But I'll trade you some dead presidents for it.

 

Got a Madison?

 

 

 

Just used up my last one today lighting up my cigar.

[Harvey Dude]

Just used up my last one today lighting up my cigar.

 

Reminds me of this classic.

 

 

[Crowzilla]

That's obviously a Famous First Edition. No paint on the fender, and no beads of sweat jumping away from the guy.

[action1kid]

Also Action 1s are not flammible. Never seen an origanal copy burn yet !

[skybolt]

Just saw the Green Lantern #3 CGC 9.4 with white pages listed on Heritage. Any guess on the final price tag on this book?

 

$17,248.97 give or take a nickel.

 

Is that with the BP or not?

[Silver Surfer]

Donut, that may be all well and fine for low and mid grade GA, but high grade GA, which is what I collect, the premium is well worth it.

 

However, I've also noticed a different trend in GA that has me particularly puzzled. Low and Mid grade copies of the titles I collect go for over Guide much of the time, while high grade copies (often the best or 2nd best known) don't command significant premiums at all. It seems to be the exact opposite of SA and BA, where the top graded copies sell for mucho $$$ and everything else is...well, everything else.

 

Most collectors (including myself) are just happy to grab a low grade copy of a rare/key book but when it comes to buying high grade copies price point can be a problem. Having said that I have moved towards buying more high end stuff, upgrading when I can but there are rarely any good GA deals/buys in the $1,000-$1,500 range. I'll buy $2,000 books all day long but when it comes to making the $4-$5,000+ deals I'll usually mull it over for a long time before making a move. I have always struggle with the notion that should I buy a selection of 4 or 5 nice books or just one high grade copy. Tough choice to make at times.

[MrBedrock]

Just saw the Green Lantern #3 CGC 9.4 with white pages listed on Heritage. Any guess on the final price tag on this book?

 

$17,248.97 give or take a nickel.

 

Is that with the BP or not?

 

At that price it's gotta be included!

[markseifert]

Also Action 1s are not flammible. Never seen an origanal copy burn yet !

 

Better pull out your early Overstreets and take another look. Comics sealed airtight can spontaneously combust, or so they used to say.

[G.A.tor]

Donut, that may be all well and fine for low and mid grade GA, but high grade GA, which is what I collect, the premium is well worth it.

 

However, I've also noticed a different trend in GA that has me particularly puzzled. Low and Mid grade copies of the titles I collect go for over Guide much of the time, while high grade copies (often the best or 2nd best known) don't command significant premiums at all. It seems to be the exact opposite of SA and BA, where the top graded copies sell for mucho $$$ and everything else is...well, everything else.

 

Most collectors (including myself) are just happy to grab a low grade copy of a rare/key book but when it comes to buying high grade copies price point can be a problem. Having said that I have moved towards buying more high end stuff, upgrading when I can but there are rarely any good GA deals/buys in the $1,000-$1,500 range. I'll buy $2,000 books all day long but when it comes to making the $4-$5,000+ deals I'll usually mull it over for a long time before making a move. I have always struggle with the notion that should I buy a selection of 4 or 5 nice books or just one high grade copy. Tough choice to make at times.

I will always choose 4 or 5 $1000 books over 1 $5000 book....4.5, 6.5, 8.5, I don't care!...just give me them funny books

[lou_fine]

Alot. Especially if there keys.

 

superman # 1.........now unrestored again [gotta laugh]

batman # 1

More Fun 52........

adv 40.

all star 3.

 

and thats just off the top of my head.

 

All of them[ except the Bat 1] are in blue labels , and have slight color or glue on them in notes. The Bat 1 is ungraded.

 

A slight correction here.

 

The Adventure Comics #40 is most definitely encased in a purple label slab. This is the only reason why it went unsold through a few auctions as it was trying to find the right pricing level. The More Fun 52 did not encountered this same problem as it was encased in a blue label slab even though it had similar restoration work, albeit to a lesser degree.

 

Not sure about the Batman #1. All I know is that while I was at the Diamond Gallery opening back in 95, I was told by either or both Dave Anderson and Joe Verenault that ALL of the pedigree Batman 1's have had some type of minor restoration work done on them. This was why the OS copy of Batman #1 was snapped up at something like $50K or $60K even though it was not a true HG copy.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Donut, that may be all well and fine for low and mid grade GA, but high grade GA, which is what I collect, the premium is well worth it.

 

However, I've also noticed a different trend in GA that has me particularly puzzled. Low and Mid grade copies of the titles I collect go for over Guide much of the time, while high grade copies (often the best or 2nd best known) don't command significant premiums at all. It seems to be the exact opposite of SA and BA, where the top graded copies sell for mucho $$$ and everything else is...well, everything else.

 

Most collectors (including myself) are just happy to grab a low grade copy of a rare/key book but when it comes to buying high grade copies price point can be a problem. Having said that I have moved towards buying more high end stuff, upgrading when I can but there are rarely any good GA deals/buys in the $1,000-$1,500 range. I'll buy $2,000 books all day long but when it comes to making the $4-$5,000+ deals I'll usually mull it over for a long time before making a move. I have always struggle with the notion that should I buy a selection of 4 or 5 nice books or just one high grade copy. Tough choice to make at times.

 

I agree, I'm having the same dilema at the moment: do I buy one high grade "grail" book, or use the $$$ to buy 3-6 cheaper books that I want almost as much. Considering I would be paying a premium for the grail book, I'm leaning towards the diversification route.

[action1kid]

Again, This is worth repeating because alot of NEW collectors are confused on this fact. Just because a book is in a blue label does not mean that a book is unrestored. Its simple, unrestored means untouched ! Both the Adv 40 and More fun 52s Mile Highs have been while having varying degrees of restoration[ abit small amounts] never the less have restoration on them rgardless of wheather there in blue or purple holders.what irks me is that I know that there are collectors out there that think blue always means unrestored and it isnt the case .

[lou_fine]

More Fun 52........

 

Speaking of...I remember waaay back when Mark Wilson had picked this up and he was so excited as it was supposed to be one of the few untampered with mega-keys. He got it and of course was extremely upset to find out otherwise and Ernie would not even talk about taking it back. (Of course some would say that given Mark's reputation this turn of events was only the balancing of the karma wheel).

 

Yes, although this is probably a little balancing of the karma wheel, I would have to say that the wheel is still heavily titled in Mark's favour. After all, you have to remember that as a professional restorer, word was that it would be extremely difficult for Mark to let any book pass through his hands without something being done to it, no matter how nice the book was.

 

Don't know if this was actually true or not since other dealers and collectors were probably just looking after their own best interests when it came to these types of stories. Nevertheless, I would have extreme difficulty convincing myself to buy a book from a dealer who is also a professional restorer, especially in today's market.

 

After all, isn't this sort of like a conflict of interest and a huge source of temptation for these types of dealers/restorers, especially when the current marketplace is NOT calling for disclosure of certain hard to detect restoration activities.

[action1kid]

correction/// Both the Adv 40 and More fun 52s Mile Highs have been restored while having varying degrees of restoration

[tth2]

I have always struggle with the notion that should I buy a selection of 4 or 5 nice books or just one high grade copy. Tough choice to make at times.

 

I agree, I'm having the same dilema at the moment: do I buy one high grade "grail" book, or use the $$$ to buy 3-6 cheaper books that I want almost as much. Considering I would be paying a premium for the grail book, I'm leaning towards the diversification route.

George, for what it's worth, from a financial perspective, the history of the hobby indicates that buying the high grade copy is almost always the better approach.

[lou_fine]

Yeah, it just makes you sick to think that one person single-handedly altered so many of those beautiful books.

Why would you take the the nicest Adventure #40 and decide that maybe it needs just a few extra spots of help? Guess for the same reason he did it to the Green Lantern #1 - might have to settle for 5 or 6x guide instead of squeezing out that full 7x.

So you seem to be concluding that the color touch was from Snyder, and not from Anderson?

 

Its pretty well known that Snyder did all his "work" back in the early 80s all by hisself. Dave has been "accused" of passing along books w/o disclosed resto, but not having done any of the colortouching himself. So no one is guessing that JS touched up the MH keys, but I suppose someone else COULD have gotten to one or more of them. Hey, JS would be blamed anyway!!

 

Hey, it looks like we've been slamming poor old John pretty hard in this thread. So, how about if I put a slightly different spin on John's perspective at the time.

 

As Aman has already stated, this was all done back in the early 80's which was a completely different time period. You have to remember that restoration was much more acceptable then and even given some value in the OS guide as it was seen to be improving the book.

 

By the time I had gotten into the vintage comics market in the late 80's, the tide had already started to turn in terms of the market's outlook on restoration. I remember in many late night conversations with John, he would always preach about going after the keys and going after the high grades as this would eventually be the future of the market from a dollars point of view.

 

The other thing he told me about on many many occasions is that I would have to really learn to watch for restoration as the mood in the marketplace had changed. What was once seen as a positive was now being seen as a negative. He strongly advised me to avoid restored books at all costs as he was not sure when this sentiment would reversed itself again. He also suggested that if I was unable to detect restoration on my own that it might be advisable to send them to somebody like Susan Cicconi for a resto check.

 

Just a different take on John Snyder's perspective at the time.

[MrBedrock]

Yeah, it just makes you sick to think that one person single-handedly altered so many of those beautiful books.

Why would you take the the nicest Adventure #40 and decide that maybe it needs just a few extra spots of help? Guess for the same reason he did it to the Green Lantern #1 - might have to settle for 5 or 6x guide instead of squeezing out that full 7x.

So you seem to be concluding that the color touch was from Snyder, and not from Anderson?

 

Its pretty well known that Snyder did all his "work" back in the early 80s all by hisself. Dave has been "accused" of passing along books w/o disclosed resto, but not having done any of the colortouching himself. So no one is guessing that JS touched up the MH keys, but I suppose someone else COULD have gotten to one or more of them. Hey, JS would be blamed anyway!!

 

Hey, it looks like we've been slamming poor old John pretty hard in this thread. So, how about if I put a slightly different spin on John's perspective at the time.

 

As Aman has already stated, this was all done back in the early 80's which was a completely different time period. You have to remember that restoration was much more acceptable then and even given some value in the OS guide as it was seen to be improving the book.

 

By the time I had gotten into the vintage comics market in the late 80's, the tide had already started to turn in terms of the market's outlook on restoration. I remember in many late night conversations with John, he would always preach about going after the keys and going after the high grades as this would eventually be the future of the market from a dollars point of view.

 

The other thing he told me about on many many occasions is that I would have to really learn to watch for restoration as the mood in the marketplace had changed. What was once seen as a positive was now being seen as a negative. He strongly advised me to avoid restored books at all costs as he was not sure when this sentiment would reversed itself again. He also suggested that if I was unable to detect restoration on my own that it might be advisable to send them to somebody like Susan Cicconi for a resto check.

 

Just a different take on John Snyder's perspective at the time.

 

As someone who was collecting in the early '80's I must say that the opinions on restoration were no different. There was just less knowledge on the subject. Some knew of restoration as a possibility and most who knew didn't want anything restored in their collection. MOST who collected then knew nothing of what restoration was or what to look for. Many books with restoration were sold to these unsuspecting collectors. The main purpose of restoration at that time had nothing to do with conservation, and everything to do with appearance (and ultimately deception). The idea that it was more accepted is wrong.

[Crowzilla]

I agree with Richard, people still didn't want restoration given the choice, it's just that they didn't know what they were looking for (and I have many friends who were burned at that time with the purchase of undisclosed restoration).

My main point about John was that yes he knew to go after keys and high grade (who would've thunk, eh?) BUT...when you are holding the nicest known Adventure #40 in your hands what possible reason is there to put any color touch on it? It's already the nicest, it's not like you're trying to fool someone into thinking it's the nicest - it is.

[lou_fine]

Yeah, it just makes you sick to think that one person single-handedly altered so many of those beautiful books.

Why would you take the the nicest Adventure #40 and decide that maybe it needs just a few extra spots of help? Guess for the same reason he did it to the Green Lantern #1 - might have to settle for 5 or 6x guide instead of squeezing out that full 7x.

So you seem to be concluding that the color touch was from Snyder, and not from Anderson?

 

Its pretty well known that Snyder did all his "work" back in the early 80s all by hisself. Dave has been "accused" of passing along books w/o disclosed resto, but not having done any of the colortouching himself. So no one is guessing that JS touched up the MH keys, but I suppose someone else COULD have gotten to one or more of them. Hey, JS would be blamed anyway!!

 

Hey, it looks like we've been slamming poor old John pretty hard in this thread. So, how about if I put a slightly different spin on John's perspective at the time.

 

As Aman has already stated, this was all done back in the early 80's which was a completely different time period. You have to remember that restoration was much more acceptable then and even given some value in the OS guide as it was seen to be improving the book.

 

By the time I had gotten into the vintage comics market in the late 80's, the tide had already started to turn in terms of the market's outlook on restoration. I remember in many late night conversations with John, he would always preach about going after the keys and going after the high grades as this would eventually be the future of the market from a dollars point of view.

 

The other thing he told me about on many many occasions is that I would have to really learn to watch for restoration as the mood in the marketplace had changed. What was once seen as a positive was now being seen as a negative. He strongly advised me to avoid restored books at all costs as he was not sure when this sentiment would reversed itself again. He also suggested that if I was unable to detect restoration on my own that it might be advisable to send them to somebody like Susan Cicconi for a resto check.

 

Just a different take on John Snyder's perspective at the time.

 

As someone who was collecting in the early '80's I must say that the opinions on restoration were no different. There was just less knowledge on the subject. Some knew of restoration as a possibility and most who knew didn't want anything restored in their collection. MOST who collected then knew nothing of what restoration was or what to look for. Many books with restoration were sold to these unsuspecting collectors. The main purpose of restoration at that time had nothing to do with conservation, and everything to do with appearance (and ultimately deception). The idea that it was more accepted is wrong.

 

Richard;

 

No doubt your comments are probably true as I was not into the vintage comics market at that early point in time. I did find it very strange, however, that OS always used to try to come up with some type of valuation eqation on restored books at the time.

 

If I remember correctly, it always started with the value of the book prior to restoration and than attempted to add some type of percentage increment based upon either the type or extent of restoration done to the book. Maybe it was just a top down push to try to get restoration to be more accepted into the marketplace.