KILLING JOKE vs. DARK KNIGHT RETURNS

[Nexus]

So all this KJ talk has gotten me and another OA collecting friend into a debate:

 

1. Which is more desirable, a KJ action page or a DKR action page?

2. Which page sells for more?

 

My opinion: As great a Batman story as KJ is, as rare as the pages are (1/4 the number as DKR), DKR is still the king. I'd rather have a DKR over a KJ. I also believe a strong DKR page (let alone a splash) sells for more than a comparable KJ page.

 

I do understand how rare KJ pages are and the mystique that surrounds them. But the day a killer DKR splash shows up on the open market, the feeding frenzy will make this KJ auction pale by comparison. I'd bet there'd be much more interest for DKR from OA collectors overall than the smaller pool of KJ cultists.

 

Of course, I could be totally off base. Thoughts?

[Mephisto]

Well since I hated DKR and especially the artwork I would take a non action page from Killing Joke over an action page from DKR.

[dem1138]

I WANT A DECENT DARK KNIGHT RETURNS PAGE!!

 

Killing Joke? Sure, but not for what people are paying for them now.

 

'Nuff said!

 

(PS - PM me if you have a DKR page you'd consider selling/trading)

[mrpunch0]

Can't afford any of them.

 

But if you have something I want in your collection– and need to raise some cash for your KJ or DKR pages – let's make a deal. Always buying Bachalo ...

[Nexus]

(PS - PM me if you have a DKR page you'd consider selling/trading)

 

! Me first!!

[dem1138]

Quit hoggin all the DKR pages! I sold you one already! And you traded it away! It's my turn again!!

[comix4fun]

So all this KJ talk has gotten me and another OA collecting friend into a debate:

 

1. Which is more desirable, a KJ action page or a DKR action page?

2. Which page sells for more?

 

My opinion: As great a Batman story as KJ is, as rare as the pages are (1/4 the number as DKR), DKR is still the king. I'd rather have a DKR over a KJ. I also believe a strong DKR page (let alone a splash) sells for more than a comparable KJ page.

 

I do understand how rare KJ pages are and the mystique that surrounds them. But the day a killer DKR splash shows up on the open market, the feeding frenzy will make this KJ auction pale by comparison. I'd bet there'd be much more interest for DKR from OA collectors overall than the smaller pool of KJ cultists.

 

Of course, I could be totally off base. Thoughts?

 

 

Actually I have been privy to the sales of the last 7 KJ pages and I have information from the buyers or sellers almost a dozen DK pages over the last 5 years. The numbers are actually flipped recently.

 

in 2006-2007 numbers you have nice but unspectacular KJ going $15k as a floor for pages with any batman at all and $22k as a ceiling...and those are panel pages, no half splashes and we aren't even talking about the money shot page where the Joker is "born" that would not move from it's current owner for less than $50k and at that I doubt it's moving.

 

The nice DK pages I have seen move between $9k and $15k for really nice pages with Batman present....

 

The flip to KJ prices has occured in the last 16-18 months, and while DK pages have escalated dramatically in that same time....KJ has gone just goofy.

 

And frankly....I would put the Joker money shot from KJ up against pretty much any page from DKR dollar for dollar.

 

Chris

[dem1138]

I want a really nice DKR page for 9K - 15K...please PM me and let me know when you find one!

[comix4fun]

I want a really nice DKR page for 9K - 15K...please PM me and let me know when you find one!

 

 

In the last 9 months at least 4 pages have changed hands in those levels.....for some reason....very quietly.

 

C

[*paull*]

TDKR is a vastly better story, in my opinion. I'd much rather have a page from that book than KJ. Although I would definitely take a KJ page over one of the TDKR pages filled with TV screens.

[comix4fun]

TDKR is a vastly better story, in my opinion. I'd much rather have a page from that book than KJ. Although I would definitely take a KJ page over one of the TDKR pages filled with TV screens.

 

 

From an artistic standpoint there is no contest that KJ is better.

 

From a story standpoint DKR has the edge.

 

Chris

[*paull*]

I wouldn't call it an "edge"... In my opinion, it's a "no contest" that the TDKR story is superior. KJ was not Alan Moore's best moment, and I'm a big fan of Watchmen and his Swamp Thing run.

[Thomas]

This is entirely subjective. Chris thinks the KJ art is better than the DK art. I happen to feel the opposite. That's what makes collecting art so unique or else we'd all want to own the same thing.

 

By the way I have nothing against Bolland whatsoever and I actually remember purchasing DK and KJ off the comic shelves when they were new and liked them both.

 

If I had to choose and was in the market for a page from either of those books it would be a DK page hands down.

[cbac]

To me it really is subjective. KJ to me was nice enough when it came out. I didn't hold in in high esteem, a Moore and Batman story I did not like the most, in fact I thought it was average. Though I have come to appreciate the art itself a lot more than I did originally, I have no desire to own one, which is lucky at today's prices. The lessor page count does play into value.

 

On the other hand DKR floored me, I'd love a page. The art was revolutionary to me and the story was magnificent. In fact I'd jump for joy to get a page. I look at this as a real milestone in comics. Awesome in fact.

 

But I also thought Watchmen was average, while V and Miracleman being magnificent.

 

Like I say subjective.

[Kevin76]

I like both,so for me, either one.

[jjeanius]

Personally, I definitely prefer DKR...for both art and story.

[rza808]

To me it really is subjective. KJ to me was nice enough when it came out. I didn't hold in in high esteem, a Moore and Batman story I did not like the most, in fact I thought it was average. Though I have come to appreciate the art itself a lot more than I did originally, I have no desire to own one, which is lucky at today's prices. The lessor page count does play into value.

 

On the other hand DKR floored me, I'd love a page. The art was revolutionary to me and the story was magnificent. In fact I'd jump for joy to get a page. I look at this as a real milestone in comics. Awesome in fact.

 

But I also thought Watchmen was average, while V and Miracleman being magnificent.

 

Like I say subjective.

YUP MIRACLEMAN ALL KIDDING ASIDE I THINK THE KJ WOULD BE MORE OF A PERSONAL COLLECTABLE AND TDKR IS A COLLECTABLE ON A HIGHER LEVEL. A PIECE OF COMIC HISTORY IMO .

[Artemaria]

Here's my vote -

 

KJ - generally better art

 

DKR - substantially better story

 

BUT - DKR has some of the most memorable splash pages in Batman history - that page where Batman first puts on his costume and jumps from the sky - with that hard hitting Miller dialogue - it was just a transcendent experience reading it.

 

I think the KJ pages are going for crazy money because of scarcity, and I don't think those prices will go down anytime soon.

 

As for the KJ story, I would say it does not crack the top five of Moore's efforts. In my estimation - Miracleman and Swamp Thing were the best things he'd ever done, with V not far behind. Following up with a close fourth is Watchmen. I also liked his Superman Annual story - "What do you get the man who has everything(?)" which Dave Gibbons illustrated.

 

To me, these are the best of Moore's works. KJ is not up there. But it is much better than that *spoon* that Moore put out on Supreme! It is also, in my estimation, better than alot of his other efforts, Tom Strong, Top 10 (which I really, really like, but it is just a different kind of book) and Promethea (which I wanted to really like, but after about seven issues, had no idea what the book was about anymore).

 

- A

[malvin]

 

<snip>

To me, these are the best of Moore's works. KJ is not up there. But it is much better than that *spoon* that Moore put out on Supreme! It is also, in my estimation, better than alot of his other efforts, Tom Strong, Top 10 (which I really, really like, but it is just a different kind of book) and Promethea (which I wanted to really like, but after about seven issues, had no idea what the book was about anymore).

 

- A

 

BLASPHEMY! Alan Moore's Supreme run was legendary.

 

Behold the Original Art Gallery Supreme and the Sketch Gallery Supreme

 

Of course you shoud continue to spread that blasphemy so that I can pick up Supreme Original art at reasonable prices.

 

And before anyone asks, I won't be going after the Alex Ross Supreme painting on ebay. Even if I sell all my Supreme pages I won't be able to buy it!

 

Malvin

[cheekyj2112]

Here's my vote -

 

KJ - generally better art

 

DKR - substantially better story

 

BUT - DKR has some of the most memorable splash pages in Batman history - that page where Batman first puts on his costume and jumps from the sky - with that hard hitting Miller dialogue - it was just a transcendent experience reading it.

 

I think the KJ pages are going for crazy money because of scarcity, and I don't think those prices will go down anytime soon.

 

 

- A

 

A,

 

I 'd pretty much concur with you right down to the splashes. When I read DKR I imagined having the splash of Batman & Robin over the city on my wall tho at that stage I think I was thinking of a print rather than the original. Can only imagine what that might go for if it was broken out now.

Having said that, scoring my KJ was way more satisfying personally, maybe because the DKR pg came too easily? )

 

A friend of mine used to own the 2 pages with Batman & Joker in the tunnel of love which links sequentially with mine and he was forced to sell them a few years ago (at a point when we were out of touch so I never got a look in) and I've never had the heart to tell him what kind of prices they'd go for now. What a sequence that would've made.

Anothe chap I know used to own the splashy page of Batman crashing through the wall (issue 1?) and told me he thinks it got lost in a house move as he hasn't seen it recently! D'oh.

 

Joseph

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=9492