Qualified or Crapified?

[fantastic_four]

If so, I've seen responses from OS where both readers and dealers have asked what grade a comic with a MVS cut out could attain.

 

The answer: No better than a VG

 

Let's assume you've got a comic with an MVS cut out. What would it grade if:

• It was otherwise 10.0?
• It was otherwise 9.4?
• It was otherwise 8.0?
• It was otherwise 6.0?
• It was otherwise 4.0?

[drbanner]

I question the fact if this book was just a common non-key book would you still get the same 6.0 qualified grade. This book should have received no higher than a 0.5 universal grade since 10-pages are missing IMHYWO. THAT'S 10 PAGES!!!. I am unable to see how CGC can give this book even a Qualified grade.

 

If you agree with the concept of qualified grades, this book has a great looking cover, looks like a solid fine in the bag/slab, and is a prime example of application of the concept. However, I agree that any nice looking book with a major defect like this, regardless of value, should be treated the same.

 

To me, in the end it comes down to which is the better descriptor for this book - "poor" or "Qualified Fine, 10 pages missing", and I think the answer's obvious.

[joe_collector]

To me, in the end it comes down to which is the better descriptor for this book - "poor" or "Qualified Fine, 10 pages missing", and I think the answer's obvious.

 

Of course it is, otherwise CGC will soon be grading empty slabs "CGC 9.8 Qualified: Book Missing" from all the sealed multi-pack comics I lost on that fabled camping trip.

 

I should send them in... wait a minute, I already have.

[joe_collector]

Let's assume you've got a comic with an MVS cut out. What would it grade if:

• It was otherwise 10.0?
• It was otherwise 9.4?
• It was otherwise 8.0?
• It was otherwise 6.0?
• It was otherwise 4.0?

 

Junk

Trash

Garbage

Refuse

Worse than Refuse

 

Seriously, unless it's a valuable comic and I can blow it off to suckers, I toss my MVS-less comics to the nextdoor neighbors. Incomplete is incomplete no matter which way you slice it.

 

[fantastic_four]

Seriously, unless it's a valuable comic and I can blow it off to suckers, I toss my MVS-less comics to the nextdoor neighbors. Incomplete is incomplete no matter which way you slice it.

 

You seem to be inferring that you could care less about incomplete books or how you'd actually go about grading them, but that can't be true, because if it was, you never would have started this thread...and I REFUSE to believe you started it just as an excuse to complain about something because doing something like that just doesn't seem like a part of your personality ...so...does your response mean you'd grade the books all the same?

[Bugaboo-migration]

...and I REFUSE to believe you started it just as an excuse to complain about something because doing something like that just doesn't seem like a part of your personality

[murph0]

Seriously, unless it's a valuable comic and I can blow it off to suckers, I toss my MVS-less comics to the nextdoor neighbors. Incomplete is incomplete no matter which way you slice it.

 

So you'd blow off an incomplete book off on a sucker eh? Doesn't this go against everything your hammering on Shiverwhatever (sorry don't remember his name) in the Golden Age forum? Just curious..

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

So you'd blow off an incomplete book off on a sucker eh? Doesn't this go against everything your hammering on Shiverwhatever (sorry don't remember his name) in the Golden Age forum? Just curious..Brian

 

What are you talking about? A CGC Hulk 9.2 Qualified (MVS Clipped) book was sold off by a few forum members without a problem. It's full disclosure, and CGC graded to boot.

 

But I feel the same way about anyone paying big bucks for incomplete comics as I do those laying down the cash for CGC 9.8 USM books, but that's beside the point.

[murph0]

Yes but you weren't talking about THAT book, you were talking about whether or not you had any incomplete books to sell. Do you usually slab all your "nice" incomplete books?

 

Brian

[Illiterati-migration]

Seriously, unless it's a valuable comic and I can blow it off to suckers, I toss my MVS-less comics to the nextdoor neighbors. Incomplete is incomplete no matter which way you slice it.

 

So you'd blow off an incomplete book off on a sucker eh? Doesn't this go against everything your hammering on Shiverwhatever (sorry don't remember his name) in the Golden Age forum? Just curious..

 

Brian

 

Speaking of Golden Age books and grading that doesn't make sense... could someone explain to me why Golden Age books are given the "sliding scale" when graded? That is, why are they given more "wiggle room" on their grades than are other books?

[Comicdave]

For those who don't believe in the Qualified grade, let me put forth a hypothetical example...You have a Hulk 181 that looks to be in 9.4 condition except the MVS is cut out. Right next to it is a beat up, ragged, stained POS copy of Hulk 181, also with the MVS cut out. According to the Qualified naysayers, these 2 comics are in the same condition. Even if you believe they should both be graded 0.5, you can't tell me they are worth the same. The qualified grade allows a seller to differentiate between the 2.

 

When CGC graded that Amazing Fantasy 15 6.0 (Q), they were saying that if this book wasn't missing the 10 pages, it would have graded a 6.0, but because it is missing 10 pages, they are letting a potential buyer know there is something wrong with the book by putting a green label on it.

 

If this were a copy of let's say Avengers 43 and it was missing 10 pages, it would most likely get a Universal 0.5 with 10 pages missing incomplete. But since this is an Amazing Fantasy and even just the cover would have some value, CGC is letting any potential buyers know the condition minus the 10 missing pages.

[Illiterati-migration]

For those who don't believe in the Qualified grade, let me put forth a hypothetical example...You have a Hulk 181 that looks to be in 9.4 condition except the MVS is cut out. Right next to it is a beat up, ragged, stained POS copy of Hulk 181, also with the MVS cut out. According to the Qualified naysayers, these 2 comics are in the same condition. Even if you believe they should both be graded 0.5, you can't tell me they are worth the same. The qualified grade allows a seller to differentiate between the 2.

 

When CGC graded that Amazing Fantasy 15 6.0 (Q), they were saying that if this book wasn't missing the 10 pages, it would have graded a 6.0, but because it is missing 10 pages, they are letting a potential buyer know there is something wrong with the book by putting a green label on it.

 

If this were a copy of let's say Avengers 43 and it was missing 10 pages, it would most likely get a Universal 0.5 with 10 pages missing incomplete. But since this is an Amazing Fantasy and even just the cover would have some value, CGC is letting any potential buyers know the condition minus the 10 missing pages.

 

No offense, Dave, but that's moronic.

 

It's a comic book.

 

It's missing TEN PAGES.

 

Aren't the pages kinda... I don't know... FUNDAMENTAL to the COMIC BOOK'S COMIC-BOOKNESS??

 

You've got a bad case of CGC mania. I'm prescribing a raw book wrap and an aromatherapy class with a pile of Silver DCs.

 

The whole thing about grading (and this is tricky so everyone stay with me), is that sometimes it's just not fair. If you have a book that is BEAUTIFUL on the oh-so-important cover (the only thing that matters for some, it seems), but is missing TEN pages?? It's CR@P! Deal with it. Life's not fair and neither is grading.

 

:::walks away singing Nazareth's "Grading Hurts":::

[joe_collector]

The whole thing about grading (and this is tricky so everyone stay with me), is that sometimes it's just not fair. If you have a book that is BEAUTIFUL on the oh-so-important cover (the only thing that matters for some, it seems), but is missing TEN pages?? It's CR@P! Deal with it. Life's not fair and neither is grading.

 

Excellent point!! Somebody write this down!

[Comicdave]

You may think that an otherwise near mint comic that is missing pages is a piece of [!@#%^&^], and I'm sure a majority of comic collectors would agree, but you need to take it on a case by case basis. If you had bought a lot of Silver Age Marvel comics and discovered that Amazing Fantasy 15 with the 10 pages missing was included, would you throw it away? Probably not, why? Because it has value, regardless if it's missing the pages or not.

 

A collector might be more interested in a 6.0 copy with 1 page missing than a 1.8 copy that's pretty beat. What the qualified grade allows a collector to do is determine for themselves how much the defect affects what they are willing to pay. As I mentioned in my previous post, a 9.4 (Q) Hulk 181 with MVS cut out is going to be worth more than a 0.5 copy. In fact it could even be worth more to someone than a 4.0 copy with the stamp intact. But according to you and others on here, you would grade them both 0.5 and therefore price them the same.

[fantastic_four]

It's missing TEN PAGES.

 

Aren't the pages kinda... I don't know... FUNDAMENTAL to the COMIC BOOK'S COMIC-BOOKNESS??

 

What grade would you give it in its current state?

 

And...what grade would you give it if we took it, crumpled it up into a ball, took a box cutter and sliced the cover and interior pages up a bit, and then smeared dog all over it?

[Bugaboo-migration]

And...what grade would you give it if we......then smeared dog all over it?

I think the answer lies in the title of this thread........Crapified.

[drbanner]

What if it was just missing a panel? What about half a page? What about a whole page? What about 2 pages? I see nothing in the OS grading guide as to how books with varying amounts of interior pieces out should be differentiated.

 

Qualified grades give credit where credit is due to books with eye appeal above and beyond the technical grade (which would be poor in all these cases), and are a much, MUCH better approach to grading books with unique defects.

 

More information on the label is better, and true collectors (not investors) can appreciate the difference in the amount of information provided about a book graded as "poor" vs. "Qualified FN 6.0". Sometimes around here it's damned if you do, to hell with you if you don't...

[joe_collector]

You may think that an otherwise near mint comic that is missing pages is a piece of [!@#%^&^], and I'm sure a majority of comic collectors would agree...

 

Please think about this statement. Really think about it.

 

If the majority of collectors feel a certain way, then you risk a lot by going totally against the grain and "telling us fools what to think" about "missing link" comics that are not even close to complete.

 

Is CGC here to serve and grow the existing industry, or have they come looking for a fight?

[Bugaboo-migration]

More information on the label is better, and true collectors (not investors) can appreciate the difference in the amount of information provided about a book graded as "poor" vs. "Qualified FN 6.0". Sometimes around here it's damned if you do, to hell with you if you don't...

Well said.

[Lantern]

Please think about this statement. Really think about it.