NewWorldOrder

On 1/9/2024 at 3:02 PM, greggy said:

Yes but Joey won't be there until Saturday night. 

He is going to miss cocktail hour?  boooooooo

On 1/9/2024 at 2:25 PM, BrashL said:

I know you keep going back to this out of wishful thinking but it's a useless analogy. That was 20 years ago. CGC wasn't what it is today, the comic market wasn't what it is today, social media wasn't what it is today. I could go on. You keep using this silly straw man like it's some brilliant thought.

You keep coming back to doom and gloom and how your collecting life is over, which most think is silly.

On 1/9/2024 at 2:58 PM, shadroch said:

If the scammers managed to get a slab past CGC, what is to stop them from selling directly to the market?  Swapping a 6.0 PLOD of a key book for a blue label can be worth thousands.  The scam has been exposed. Not the scammers, and there is no reason to think they have stopped.

There are always scams in anything in life that money is involved 24/7.

On 1/9/2024 at 2:55 PM, greggy said:

Hi John. 

@greggy

Hello Greggy!

You coming to soCal con with Joey in a couple weeks?

On 1/9/2024 at 2:39 PM, EastEnd1 said:

There are two HUGE differences between Ewert and this one.  The first is the one you mention, the requirement for Ewert to go through the gatekeeper.  The second is the exponential growth of social media in the intervening years.  From my recollection, the Ewert controversy was largely centered around the CGC board and if you weren't on this board, or well connected with the dealer circuit, there was a good chance you wouldn't have heard about it.  With social media today, word spreads like wildfire... even the casual collector can easily stumble across this one.  

Correct if social media was around back then like it is now.  OMG this thread would be up to 1000+ pages.

Every week for 4-7 years that thread was going and going.  Plus there were numerous other threads started weekly besides the main one.  It was nuts.

On 1/9/2024 at 2:41 PM, shadroch said:

I'm not sure why you think the Ewert scandal was bigger than this, but it doesn't really matter. 

I had my eye on five Ditko spideys at auctions this week. Four went for less than my target price.  As I didn't bid, the seller lost at least $5 on every book.  If I'd bid my maximums, the seller could have made perhaps $200 more.  This hobby isn't so big that a couple of hundred big collectors greatly reducing their BA/CA slab purchases won't have ripple effects.  The hobby/market revolves, and perhaps the era of blind faith in third-party companies is passing.

As some old guy once said.  It's not the end, it's not even the beginning of the end, but perhaps it is the end of the beginning.  I'm surprised it took this long for someone to counterfeit slabs, and now we find out they didn't have to.  I only own about two dozen CGC books, but they are all high value.  My long-term confidence in them as an investment has been shaken.  Just as importantly- I now need to be concerned with what I'd be selling. The book may be in a slab, but it's my reputation.

Because you can stop this but you cant stop a Jason Ewert type with the same level of protocols and safeguards.

Maybe with AI?

Many buyers/sellers left after COVID and when interest rates went up.

On 1/9/2024 at 2:35 PM, comicjel said:

Agreed, but I am concerned that this guy may have been doing this longer with higher value books being swapped out with restored books, and then gravitated to the less noticeable modern books that he could churn more.

The higher value books on CGCs list means he was likely getting those reholdered for "some" reason. 

 

I get it, and to be honest none of us no the answer and may never.

It would take a lot more capital though to try the bigger books.  I mean he or they aint doing it with an Action Comics #1. 

There is a reason they choose ASM copper books because they are common and to CGC are basically $1 books.

Reholdering an ASM 300 is not the same as a real expensive book.  I mean they possibly tried, but jury is still out on the vintage (AF 15 signed), but when you look at the list it mostly common books that everyone in their mothers owns 10 copies of.  I mean heck I have now 20 copies of ASM 300 raw.

The problem I have here is some are suggesting the holder is super easy to crack open this scandal is widespread, but yet there isnt one video showing just how easy it is too.  This was the easiest scam to have never had happened in the history of CGC.  Loophole is now closed or new protocols I am sure are in place.  Whether it was a group or it so many more books effected is all speculation at this point wouldnt you agree?

On 1/9/2024 at 2:23 PM, comicjel said:

Yes, unless we find out he has been peeing in all areas of the pool for longer than we thought!

I mean that's anything in life.

On 1/9/2024 at 2:20 PM, Nick Furious said:

I think it will have some impact, but it will be compartmentalized.  Dude was caught peeing in the pool, but it seems to be mostly contained to a few areas.  Folks who are partial to hanging out in those areas (higher grade Hulk 181, ASM 300 9.8, Mark Jeweler 9.8's, etc) are probably mostly aware of it.  It won't chase everyone out of the pool, but it will make some areas suspect for a while.  

Sounds logical to me.

So I guess we are carrying this thread into the New Year I see

On 1/9/2024 at 1:08 PM, shadroch said:

Every day that passes reduces the public's confidence in them.  If they think a one-and-done statement is going to restore confidence in their product, they are sadly mistaken.

Most of the general public doesn't now or is too busy to take the time to be truly informed of what is currently going on (same with current events & politics).

I talked to numerous comic friends who are a mix of raw and CGC collectors, most are just too busy to really care is the vibe I get.

You were around back in the Ewert scandal I assuming right?

That didn't effect anything long-term, and that was way more scandalous than this.

I am not downplaying what this scumbag(s) did, and I glad it has come into the light of day, but it really won't have much of an impact on the overall comic market.  I am with you though that I am curious how the big Heritage books do, but from what I am hearing there is more excitement than trepidation.  I mean even on my small selling level, my eBay sales to start the year were well above what I thought, so we shall see. 

In 2024 the Federal Reserve interest rates and Kevin Feige/James Gunn will have will more of an impact on the market prices than this.

Same people that love buying CGC will mostly continue, and the same people that are anti-CGC/slab culture will keep buying raw.

Rinse and repeat till we are old and have to sell it all anyway because we all die with nothing and our bank accounts go back to zero.

On 1/9/2024 at 10:51 AM, pdags said:

Unfortunately this whole event has crushed my joy... ATM, every slabbed book looks like a scam.

Every book on the list or all CGC slabs ever graded since 2000?

On 1/9/2024 at 10:40 AM, agamoto said:

Do you buy/sell/trade CGC branded slabs? If so, you're entitled to know what the hell is going on. 

I am not a shareholder of Blackstone nor do I work for the company so no unfortunately I am not entitled.

I dont' need a play play from them.  I am sure sometime in the near future CGC will make another announcement on the cliff notes of the current state of how this situation is being handled, and that's it.  I have no connection to my knowledge to any of the books or people supposedly involved. 

Yes, I only sell graded slabs as my main income.  Scanning books as we speak. 

I sell tamper-free CGC books since 2009! Come take a look.

On 1/9/2024 at 10:38 AM, Lightning55 said:

 

I did say, a long way back, that when a book is checked and reholdered, the old number and new number would stay on the list, for a paper trail. At the time, it was not stated that the old number would stay on the list with a strike-through. I thought they were literally going to "take it off the list", as in remove it. So the strike-through works great. But we should see what the progression is on these books, as in did the grade change, or did it go from blue to green. We have no idea what % of these books are being found to be corrupt. 

This post was directed at the idea of inserting any new suspect cert numbers (new books thought to be scammed) onto the list in any random method. That it would be hard to track numbers added if not highlighted in some way, grouped in some way, and identified as additional suspect certs. And to inform us at such time that new certs have been added, so we have a heads up to check the new numbers.

Hmmmm I get why people would want that.  Just not sure in reality that would happen.

I get more of the strike-though the old serial number and leave it on the list, but I think where it would get dicey is new making the correctly graded book now have a new list.  Basically creating a new tainted list on books that are now in effect pure again.  See what I mean?

On 1/9/2024 at 10:32 AM, agamoto said:

C'mon man, you're not stupid. Hiring their own PI team and outside legal counsel does not = involving local/state/federal agencies. One of the first things the feds do in such a case is tell companies NOT to self-investigate before they're on the job because evidence and chains of custody can be easily corrupted. 

Well thank you.

I am not at the company.  I have no idea what they are or not doing, but I know I am not entitled to any of that information unless I could help with investigation directly.   Even then giving CGC a name or evidence would probably just stop there.  Doubt anyone who calls in gets anymore information past what they are telling the fraud investigator.

On 1/9/2024 at 10:29 AM, mrd160 said:

Yes, both the fraud investigators and Matt Nelson directly. I want to be clear, I hate social media and message boards. No offense people lol...just not my thing.Also, I generally never buy slabs. I spent years learning to grade and spot resto so I didn't have to. I shared info to try and help fellow collectors. I really don't care beyond that. I have been collecting since 1973 and have submitted 0 books to cgc, just not my thing. My wife, who is an attorney spent a lot of time drafting the e-mail detailing what we KNEW and forwarded it to the proper people. After that, it's up to CGC.

Okay so from what you just said it sounds like CGC is doing an investigation.

Right, and after that it will all be internal till maybe you see the final results.

On 1/9/2024 at 10:22 AM, mrd160 said:

I will not dox someone. It just isn't right IMO and can create a dangerous situation. Also, while I met him through a dealer, I personally have no idea what level of involvement they have.They could be victims as well. That is why you do an investigation

Did you tell CGC who you think he is?

On 1/9/2024 at 10:17 AM, mrd160 said:

I agree with that 100% and I don't expect anything. What I will say is that I have not "speculated" on anything. I have dealt with all parties face to face ( the scammer and the shop in brooklyn) and have made a point of not putting too much info out there. I just want to see the investigation take it's course....no which hunt....wherever that leads. I think that is a reasonable position

I am just getting caught up have you named who the scammer is here earlier?

On 1/9/2024 at 10:17 AM, agamoto said:

They absolutely, positively can let everyone know that they have involved local/state/federal law enforcement agencies. You can imagine the poop disturbance behind the fan if they said they were, and actually were not.

 

Pretty sure they said that in their last statement.   They were in fact starting a investigation.

On 1/9/2024 at 10:11 AM, mrd160 said:

I am basing it on my direct conversations with the company. Hey, I hope I'm wrong.

CGC is not going to discuss an ongoing investigation with anyone outside of the company and the police.

General public isn't going to be getting a play by play.

On 1/9/2024 at 9:58 AM, pdags said:

I don't like being purely speculative, but If the scammer simply stops everything, lays low, and burns all the evidence, I feel he'll get away with it.  I hope I'm wrong, but CGC doesn't seem to have a grasp on the situation and we still don't know if the law enforcement is involved.

On 1/9/2024 at 10:00 AM, mrd160 said:

sadly i agree 100%

Why do you both think you are entitled to that information from CGC?  That makes no sense.

None of us know what they are doing currently.

Both of you mostly post on unsubstantiated claims on pure speculation.

On 1/8/2024 at 7:25 PM, Lightning55 said:

I second this motion emphatically.

New numbers being inserted randomly is a tracking nightmare. Even appending them is problematic, if no one knows there was a change to "The List". Someone here would have to be in charge of updating it in real time to keep it straight. 

Otherwise, over time "The List" becomes "Sorta The List".

Additional cert numbers need their own mini-announcement. In groups, maybe.

Or a separate thread started with the original list, and then posts from CGC as each number emerges and becomes part of the new list.

Just trying to catch up here.  Are you and others saying that even when a book on the "350 List" is sent in for evaluation each the old CGC serial number should remain on the list and even the new CGC serial should be added a new list of re-evaluated books?

Example:  I sent in an ASM #300 CGC 9.8 from the list and then CGC determines it was in fact a 9.4.  So the CGC 9.8 Cert # stays and the CGC 9.4 cert. # is put on a new list for everyone to see?

On 1/9/2024 at 5:58 AM, mrd160 said:

Feel like I can say this at this point, I met the scammer personally he was working at the booth of The said shop in Brooklyn at a comic book show. There is definitely a connection between the two what it is I am not gonna say and don’t know but it doesn’t look good. Many of the suspicions books were there and offered to me after the show by text.

Epic Nation?

On 1/8/2024 at 3:39 PM, Math Teacher said:

Iowa, but I am willing to travel (to some degree).

 

Hmmm well driving you got C2E2 which I highly recommend.

Flying I would try Heroes Con (NC), Baltimore, and San Diego Comic Con.

SDCC while a giant event the comic section still displays usually the best comics you will see all year.

For one day shows my favorite show of the year is coming up here in soCal (near Disneyland). SoCal Comic con (run by Terry O'Neil).  All comics!  Very old school, and a great social atmosphere.  Its always the bye weekend before the Superbowl.  I would fly from the east coast to attend this one even if I moved out of California. 

On 1/8/2024 at 2:10 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

On 1/8/2024 at 2:09 PM, Math Teacher said:

I have attended very few comicons. I have attended Planet Comicon in Kansas City several times, C2E2 in Chicago twice, and Wizard World Chicago (when there was such a thing). 

I am asking the people that have attended many more comicons than me: which is the best comicon to attend if you are only interested in comic books?

What state do you live in?