miraclemet

On 6/29/2022 at 6:56 PM, Bo1983 said:

So you don’t care if the census is inaccurate?

here's something to blow your mind. 

The census doesnt represent the total population of a book in collections, just the number (minus duplicates) that have been submitted. 
So even if the census was 100% accurate (on the number of graded books), it still would not be 100% representational (of the total books in collections including non-graded). So even if it was accurate, it would not be accurate (if you get what Im saying).

On 6/29/2022 at 6:29 PM, Bo1983 said:

Cgc will take this down im sure!

Apparently not. 

CGC's business model is smart. They grade and encapsulate books. Publishers continue to produce comics every month, so there is a constant flow of potential product for grading. They'll never run out of products to grade unless the market crashes and it no longer becomes finacially feasible to pay grading/slabbing costs for submissions (granted that hasnt stopped people so far in submitting books that "arent worth grading")

Link to one of the stories covering this

https://batman-news.com/2022/06/16/tim-sale-has-died/

On 6/10/2022 at 7:49 PM, Beyonder123 said:

 On another note, I dislike that the book was encapsulated backwards, but what are you gonna do 

 

 

 

Guessing it was at the request of the submitter? (And CGC understood the rationale, since it puts superman on the front of the slab, and it's in CGCs interest to have the image that's gonna be front and center in promotions be the front, with the CGC label and company name showing most prominently) 

On 6/10/2022 at 9:08 PM, Sqeggs said:

I think @skypinkblu raised the point about how CGC identifies the later unmarked Okajimas as being part of the pedigree. I know I've seen a number of them with COAs. Did they all have those (although, of course, they sometimes get mislaid) or were they added by only one of the buyers of the collection? 

the COAs were made by Alan Barr when he acquired about a third of the pedigree in the 90s (I think mostly from one of the original 3 buyers along with some other ones he was able to acquire around the area shows as they started to be sold by the 3 original buyers at shows up and down the west coast). Alan documented his portion of the pedigree (book, grade, markings, dates, codes), which was the jumping off point for my Okajima reference list. His documentation is included in the *cough* as yet unpublished pedigree book. 

On 6/10/2022 at 11:02 AM, Robot Man said:

The Prize is my copy. What does the “2” stand for? 

Based on where it falls in the chronology of the collection it looks like an incomplete okajima code. 

It falls within the "2" code series. After the 2R codes (bought on 3-18, including copies of Zip Comics #46, Marvel Mystery Comics #55, and Police Comics #30), and before the 2T codes (bought on 3-29, Super Magician V3n1, and Captain Aero Comics #15) 

I dont have records of any books with the 2S code, so maybe this was supposed to be a 2S and she didnt finish the code? 

more early Okajima's for the record
 

Wings #40

"Okajima" on cover. No date, no code. 10/4/43 approximate release date. 

Prize Comics

"3-27-44", "Okajima" "2"

Adding some books/images from the 50items article for archiving sake. 

Blue Bolt v4n8 "1-11-44", "1W" , and "Okajima" on cover. 

Rangers 18 

"6-3-44", "3W" and "Okajima" on cover

On 6/9/2022 at 3:13 PM, path4play said:

I posted this earlier.  Mother returns home 9/4/45

 

thanks, I thought it had been posted but couldnt find it... 
9/4/45...

Here's the thing. That date makes sense in some ways. 
August/September comics start to show less consistency in markings. There's coding, but no "Okajima" -script consistancy. 

And that time period is when the two camp notes appear:
Mystery Comics 2 "Camp 3" note with the book dated 8/9/44

and

Whiz Comics #58 "Camp I" note with the "4T" code and the 8-22-44 date (no "Okajima")

As the internment camps started to shrink in late the later part of '44 and into 45, maybe the mom got shifted around as the camps consolidated, so she made noted about which camp section she was assigned? 

What if, Bette left, and left her books behind when she went to Chicago? Maybe she left them for George? Maybe She left them for the other kids in the camp to read (but return, since she was putting her name on them). Maybe the mom kept buying books? Or here's a left field idea...what if the mom was the one buying and building the collection for her daughter? Maybe as a way to rebuild the collection that Bette had left behind when they entered the camp? Maybe she saw that the kids at the camp enjoyed them and so she would lend them out (with the family name on them so they would make their way back") 

After her mom is released from the camp in September of '45 is when we start to see the use of the date stamp. Earliest date stamp "Oct 10 1945". Maybe her mom kept picking up comics? Maybe the comics started out as Bette's (maybe even as a collector before she had to leave them behind when they went into the internment camp) and her mom wanted to keep collecting comics for Bette?  So maybe the collection was always with the mom, never went to chicago, never made its way back to the family home in CA, but was always with the mom? 

I've seen parents do stranger thing to retain, or even mend, a bridge to their child's childhood (even after they've grown up), especially if it tied back to happier days before internment. 

On 6/9/2022 at 1:42 AM, sfcityduck said:

It would make more sense if Bette and George left them in the Camp with the mom.  And maybe mom bought comics every once in a while.

Do we have the date when the mom left the camp? 

On 6/8/2022 at 2:04 PM, path4play said:

There were two homes on the property (I believe).  Bette took care of mom, and I think lived there sister or brother (I am really going by memory or speculation now).  The homes don't exist anymore (via google and an address from the mom's oral history I think it was).  I think the 40 acres were likely sold off and houses destroyed and converted to farmland.  With a little digging I'll bet that property sold around 1995.

That makes sense (the ide of Bette moving back "home" to care for the mom).

Here's a question I haven't seen yet...

How did all the comics end up back at the mom's house at some point? Assuming we believe the discovery story as fact (the collection being discovered/divvied up when the Mom passed away in 1995 and house/estate sale that followed), how and why did the comics end up back at the mothers house? They were bricked up (stacked, wrapped tightly in newspaper), so did Bette send them back to the mom at some point, and if so why?

At what point between 1955 (last book in the collection) and 1995 (when the collection was "discovered") did the books end up back in Fresno California where the mother lived? And why did they go there?  

On 6/8/2022 at 10:45 AM, skypinkblu said:

The key is "might" ...There were probably fewer girls who bought those, but there were girls. I was always a fan of Sheena because SHE WAS A GIRL...not for the sex aspect. I don't like Wonder Woman because she got tied up a lot. 

My mother and aunt both read Superman way before I did...I never did a survey of others, lol.

I always try to check any gender/comic assumptions at the door. We dont know Bette or her reading interests, so I dont assume that because it's a particular type of book that it might be more or less likely to end up in her collection. Heck some voracious readers, will read ANYTHING, just so they can keep reading. 

Still trying to reconcile the facts, the stories and the comics... 

Some initial thoughts

Bette left camp on October 19 1943 for Chicago to join her sister Frances and brother-in-law.

At this point the collection is very small. At this point there are a dozen comics with the "Okajima" -script, But no codes. The earliest known code (from my list, correct me if you know of an earlier one) is a "1C" code from Action Comics #68, which is also dated on the cover with "11/16/43" (which lines up with the estimated newsstand release date). [note there is an earlier comic, Startling #24, that has a "1" and a "P" on it, but I'm doubtful that this is the same type of coding]. So after Bette gets to Chicago with a few comics from the camp (maybe?) she starts collecting (again?) in Chicago. Questions: IF she's living with her sister & brother-in-law why bother writing her name on them? Usually the point of writing ones name on a comic is to show ownership. Who did she have to prove ownership to? She wasn't a kid fighting with her little brother/sister over the comics, or trading them at school... And what changed for Better in October of 1944, a year later, to change her notation methods? To drop the signature, and the coding and the date? I assume a change in behavior connotes a change in something else. What changed?

I do not doubt that the books signed "Okajima" were signed by Bette. The penmanship/style is just to close to the exemplars not to be hers. 

George left camp on May 5 1944 for Keenesburg Colorado to a work camp and then enlisted in the army on August 16 1945
First lets look at May 1994 to see if there's any signs in the collection to note this change. There was a comic bought the day before George left camp (Superman #29, "5-4-44" with the "Okajima" (unsure of code) and the day after George left, another comic was bought, Shadow Comics V4n3 ("3M" and Okajima con cover along with 5-6-44) So no change in the collection despite George leaving camp. George's enlistment similarly doesnt seem to change the collection. On August 9 Mystery Comics #2 is purchased, noted with code "4o" (yes lowercase, though maybe it was a p? which would make more sequential sense), no "okajima" signature, but with the note "Camp 3". Again this is AFTER George left camp, but BEFORE he enlisted. So no clue what "Camp 3" is supposed to reference. A week after enlisting (and two weeks after the "Camp 3 noted Mystery Comics #2) the aforementioned Whiz Comics #58 is purchased, again no signature, but with the "4T" code (which sequentially makes sense and the "Camp I" note. 

The most interesting thing to me is that after George enlisted in mid august, We see the start of the date stamp use in October. Once the date stamps start, we no longer see scripts, codes or signatures. Maybe these books were either a) George's books bought while enlisted maybe at the PX? or b) maybe these books were sent to him from family while he was shipped out? Though the idea that they were Georges and they made it back to the family home to be added to the collection is a stretch, especially if he was deployed. I dont know if George was deployed, or just stayed stateside. 

On 6/6/2022 at 10:40 AM, sfcityduck said:

 

(1) Are there any #/letter coded books which post-date 10/44 (five months after George left the camp)?  If not, it strongly suggests that at least the later #/letter coded books were camp books collected by George. (I suppose that after George left, they could have been bought by the mom). I'd love to see a chronological chart of the books and their markings.

(2) What was the last #/letter and "signature" coded book? The Whiz above has no "signature" (or name) on it.

 

 

 

Military Comics #34 had not date, but a code  "4xv"
Superman #31  also had no date, but had the "4xv" code. 
Both books were released in October of 1944. 

October is also when the books shift to start using the date stamp instead of the written date 
Date stamps of "OCT 10 1944" and 10/21/44 come up on books shortly thereafter. Date stamps continue into January of 1945

The latest book with the signature was... Sensation Comics #35 which also had a 4X, but no written date (aprox release date of 9/7/44)

That Planet 71 RARELY comes up for sale, if I didn't already have one....someone grab it!

On 5/18/2022 at 10:30 AM, Sigur Ros said:

I'll give you a chance to stop doubling down and realize I never asked him what he likes. Ever. 

 

 

What's wrong with being interested in the overall comic marker/hobby?

On 5/17/2022 at 7:33 PM, Gaard said:

Wasn't he talking about Facebook?

 

<---- member of both forums.

Yup.

On 5/17/2022 at 6:53 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Very curious.

Why do you care who likes who over on a different forum ?

Just speculating on the impact on CGCs lone competitor. Always interested in the greater market/hobby. CGC doesn't exist in isolation.

I feel like over on the CBCS groups there are some Borok-heads (my term, copywrite me) that might actually stop 'staning the competition now that Steve is leaving...

On 4/28/2022 at 5:29 PM, Buzzetta said:

I like WD-40

No judgement

On 4/15/2022 at 9:47 AM, srezvan said:

My LCS recently bought a massive collection that's starting to trickle into the store. I noticed a bunch of newer G.I. Joe TPBs, so I asked if they had any  of the TPBs reprinting the original Marvel series. Sure enough, they had some in the back that they hadn't put out for sale yet. Never hurts to ask. 5 down, 10 more to go to get the full set.

 

I'm still on the hunt for 13 and 15.... Good luck my man. I think I picked up an 11 TPB lot here on the boards for like $350 and then snagged a few more that were still available online. Grab any you can before they disappear! You can still find Vol 12 for cover price. And dont forget the two GI Joe Special Missions volumes!