wiparker824

On 12/28/2023 at 12:12 PM, BrashL said:

I mean he used a $50 dollar heat gun and some plastic solvent, that’s basically garage supplies. Nothing about what he showed is hard or expensive. 

Yep. Literally everything used is at any hardware store. These aren’t some top secret chemist tools used, even though we all probably wish it was that difficult. It appears it is not. 

On 12/28/2023 at 11:25 AM, drotto said:

But his method is reasonable, and is likely enough to get past a cursory check done during a reholder submission, especially ifthey arw claiming damage to the case as the reason foe the submission.  That is all that matters.  Plus, this person has only done this to a few slabs. The scammer may have a completely different method, but has also has done this many times and refined their methods with practice. 

Exactly. The video shows the most important piece, the heat gun being used to seamlessly open one of the pins on the corners. Yes he messed up the other one, and may have been sloppy with the sealant putting it back. But the fact he could pop that corner pin seamlessly means someone who actually spent a lot of time perfecting this could get this down to a science. This is just a guy who was trying something in his garage for fun on a couple books. That alone is alarming. 

On 12/28/2023 at 10:36 AM, paqart said:

I think the CGC response is appropriate. That said, it just occurred to me that CGC's liability for damages only goes as far as the buyer's cost. Meaning, they won't be compensated for the lost opportunity of a resale for a higher price. There may not be a way to do that. However, if I was a comic book investor, and all the comics targeted by the fraudster are "investment" comics, I wouldn't be interested in buying the comic and tying up my money if I knew I would only get the same amount back. That is a loss also, though one that cannot be precisely calculated, so buyers are likely out of luck on that point.

I’d imagine some will be resold to another unexpected buyer. I’m obviously not advocating that, but some (not all) of those that bought as an investment unhappy with whatever compensation they may receive from CGC will undoubtedly try to sell the problem to someone else without disclosing it and will keep attempting until they find someone who doesn’t research the cert number. 

On 12/28/2023 at 10:34 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Has anyone had newly graded books shipped back to them in the last week or so?  I have a UV submission received 12/21 that doesn't seem to be moving.  Just wondering if they've put a hold on sending books back out for the time being. 

They’ve been out of office for holiday. I believe 22nd and 25th.

On 12/28/2023 at 10:01 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I’m curious how many potential  CGC consumers are even aware of this situation?  

To be honest it’s going to depend on the influencers and how much they post about it, which isn’t my cup of tea and not channels I follow. But I do know they have a lot of people who do. So, if all of them start talking about this the way they talk about the next MCU hot spec alert, well, word will get out very quickly. And I know based on some of the videos posted in this thread that’s already begun.

In 2023 that’s the way these things travel, nobody reads Facebook groups or CGC newsletters and besides those of us ITT nobody else is reading message boards. 

On 12/28/2023 at 9:35 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm sure past slabs would be addressed at some point, if not immediately, it needs to be remembered to be brought to their attention for sue  

I think you’re giving them too much credit. I’m sure the “few hundred” they will list from the seller(s) identified will me remedied one way or another but the millions of other slabs that are probably not tampered with but might be, but have no proof either way I’m guessing will be SOL. You’ll be offered the re-sub, re-grade with their new “tamper proof process” and not a lot else. Maybe they offer a discount upgrading from an old case but as someone with hundreds of slabs that’s not really that appealing to me personally. Hope I’m wrong, but really doubt I am.

On 12/28/2023 at 9:10 AM, BrashL said:

I don't think changes to the case of that nature are the answer anyway, it just creates a new arms race and no system is unbreakable, at least not at a cost that makes the business viable. The solution here is pretty simple actually and I hope they implement something similar:

• Every book gets Grader Notes, every single one (OK maybe not a 10)
• Every single book gets a high res picture front and back
• Every note related to the cover or back of the book is annotated in the picture, with the defect circled, marked, whatever

Essentially create a unique fingerprint for every comic, which is essentially what this board has been doing for a week now. Not only do you ensure the integrity of the slab, you ensure the integrity of the grade itself. This would take a little more time, but to be honest this is the bare minimum of what a grader should be doing now considering how much value they are adding (or subtracting) from a book. If they did this, I could care less how easy the case is to open. 

I’d also add every book that has been reholdered has a date of when the reholder took place, preferably with images before and after of the reholdered book. Not to demonize all books that have been reholdered, I’ve done it to a chipped slab or two in my PC but at least as a buyer you have as much information as possible and can take whatever risk you’re willing to take.

On 12/28/2023 at 8:47 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

When did CGC decide to start imaging ALL books they grade?

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/11797/comics-magazine-imaging/
 

press release was beginning of August but those who were submitting at the time started seeing it randomly weeks before then if I recall. 

On 12/21/2023 at 10:29 PM, ShaggyB said:

That previous grade should hold a very high standing with the grader to prove why it has gone down or maintain it.

Yeah, that’s not how it works in the slightest though. The previous grade is unknown to the graders. They don’t know if it’s been pressed, graded previously, who submitted, or anything else about the book on a submission. The only time the previous grade has any carryover is on a reholder. Which is why I said on any given day a 9.6 can be a 9.8, and a 9.8 can be a 9.6. The difference in these 2 grades is razor thin, subjective in nature and very easy to flip from one to the other. And again why Id never recommend sending 9.8’s in for signing. The odds of devaluing the book are way too high. 

Should they handle books without ever creating damage? Yes. Should a 9.8 stay a 9.8? Yes. Should you have notes on every book not a 9.8? Yes. Will any of those ever happen? No. You got to understand the game you’re playing. 

This is why I always send 9.4’s and 9.6’s for signings… or just raw high grade. I think the thing nobody wants to say is that 9.8’s on any given day by another grader often become 9.6’s. Even in cases where there is nothing additional that happens like a bend during handling.9.8’s are just so risky to send because they can only go one direction (barring the miracle 9.9/10.0.). Just not worth the risk to me. Just my 2 cents.

Sounds about right.

On 9/10/2023 at 5:45 PM, Telegan said:

In a video interview I posted earlier of a comic dealer, he said that a lot of people that are selling what they own in comics aren't elderly people getting rid of comics as they've gotten older, but rather younger people just trying to get out of their comics.  I don't know if that's generally the case across most dealers, but I found that intriguing.  If that's the case, I doubt any of them were collecting some of the stuff you mentioned like antique cigar boxes or even paperbacks, but who knows.  I bought my first pulp recently just to buy one and check it out since I had never bought a pulp before.  Lord, that was a crunchy book. lol.

That’s a really tough thing to gauge based on age alone. Not everyone who grows old sells off before they kick the bucket. Often times the books are inherited by some younger person who doesn’t care about comics and never has and sells them off - and frequently they sell to a local dealer because they don’t know enough about comics to actually sell on their own. In these cases the person selling is young but it really isn’t any different than the old original owner selling before they died. Unless you’re really interrogating the seller on how they came about these books and when they got into comics you can’t really go off age alone. 

On 9/8/2023 at 9:04 PM, StillOnly25Cents said:

strike what I said about SS coming next, 1 step closer to JRS ASM ….

Not fully set in stone but the release dates for our next books are coming together and I can say with some degree of confidence that the next volume to his store shelves will be ASMv2. Folks in Europe can look forward to that book sometime in October. We hope North American distribution will sneak it in before Christmas but stay tuned on that...

Odd since some stores are already taking preorders  for a SS book that they claim will ship out on 10/7

On 9/8/2023 at 9:12 PM, the blob said:

So are we back to 2013 or 2018? 2019? 2011? I've been out of the loop.

 

 

No. Late 2020, just as books started to creep up - that’s about where we are at, at least for SA.

On 9/3/2023 at 2:48 PM, DC# said:

No doubt.  Looking at full picture in GPA is very helpful while pursuing specific books.   
 

Wondering aloud here without actually going back through the CL data I have compiled for nearly two years now - have the Clink auction results actually been a leading indicator?   Have they proceeded the declines that then show up in the month(s) that followed on EBay, etc?   Especially in the average silver, bronze, copper and modern books.   And if that is the case, will they continue as leading indicator if prices turn?    I wasn’t watching closely during the boom days to know how out in front Clink might have been vs other GPA contributors 

The books I did buy in the boom days on CL were generally ~10% less than what they were going on eBay and HA. Those 2 in particular during the boom days were hitting crazy prices. What I was buying was low-mid grade SA books, I think if it was a high grade key it didn’t matter where it was being sold, prices were going to the moon. Of course this is all anecdotal as it was just the books I was bidding on not the site as a whole but that’s what I remember - and why I really only was buying from CL during that time. I guess you could say that’s a leading indicator since prices started falling after that but I didn’t really think of it that way. I thought more it was during peak of the FOMO/sport card/crypto speculators entering the hobby and the 2 sites that had the most reach and marketing (HA, eBay) to the general public did the best. 

On 9/2/2023 at 1:32 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

My entire post was a request for additional perspectives, so that I could learn something.  Should be obvious to anyone who's not looking to cause trouble.

oh it was obvious to most us and I appreciated seeing something I missed in the CL auction and your perspective... but yeah you literally ended with “what am I missing here?”. Which is a pretty direct way of asking others for their perspectives to connect the dots.

I don’t understand the hostility in this thread sometimes. None of us understand or know the future of the market - we are all just shooting the mess talking about the market and what we are seeing. 

On 9/1/2023 at 9:00 PM, VintageComics said:

Come on. This isn't our first rodeo. 

Page Quality, eye appeal, venue, visible defects. All of these things cause variations in price. 

Plus not every auction result CAN be the same. 

I think if you started a deep dive you'd say that there is far more rationale to why prices vary than not. 

Yes, as I was saying. The erratic results are not unusual for this book in a 9.8. The reasoning can be what you mentioned or one of many other things like 2 people just really wanted that cva exceptional sticker tonight. I wasn’t attempting to list every possible reason for price variance.

On 9/1/2023 at 8:39 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

This is an honest request for someone to explain DD #131 to me.

Here's tonight's result for a nice 9.8 WP copy:

A "Mark Jewelers insert" copy sold for even more on ComicConnect last week, skewing GoCollect's algorithm a bit (it shows FMV at $10,000, likely as a result).

So let's toss out the higher number since the book in question is a sort-of variant, and stick with $7,000+ as the current market for a 9.8 WP copy of the book.

I have a 9.6 WP copy that I bought for a little over $1,100 in April 2021, during the height of the market ... GoCollect shows recent sales in the $800-$1,500 range (that's actually a broad range) but let's say $1,100 is about right for a 9.6.  I might expect a 9.8 to be about double, maybe as much as $2,500+, but I saw a 9.8 WP copy with less than perfect centering go for over $4,500 on ComicLink in March, and I believe Dale Roberts sold a nicer 9.8 for $5,000+ soon after that.  Now we have this result at over $7,250.

So the market is apparently saying that a 9.8 is worth more than 6 times a 9.6?  I just don't get it.  There are 110 9.8 copies in the census, so it's not exactly rare, and while Bullseye is a good character he's not exactly A-list and he's already been used in the old Ben Affleck movie.  I'm really struggling to understand why this book is going for such high prices, which is why I've stayed on the sidelines and refused to upgrade my 9.6.

Basically I'm saying that if it were possible to "short" a comic, I'd be looking hard at this one.  I just cannot justify the going rate on this book and I can't see myself ever paying more than $3,000 max for a 9.8.

That is, unless someone can make a convincing case that I should.  What am I missing here?

GPA shows some pretty erratic results for this book in 9.8:

My guess is this is more about a match of 2 people who wanted to buy a 9.8 tonight. But on another note CL’s auction was weird in general and continues to be weird, even in the non-9.8 books. Some books were setting lows not seen since pre pandemic days. Other books that are really common not only were nearing pandemic highs they were blowing books from CL’s auction that just ended 2 days ago out of the water.

Take a look at ASM 300 9.6. $1625. A solid $500 over the 90 day GPA average.

Oh and also $600 more than it just went for at auction 2 days ago on CL and this one was even signed:

McFarlane’s signature apparently devalues this book by about 40% is the only conclusion lol. I’m not going as far as claiming shill bidding on CL, just that there’s been a lot of weirdness I’ve seen over the past couple months in both directions so I take everything that I see there now with a grain of salt. In my opinion it’s had a lot more variance than the other big auction sites recently. 

On 9/1/2023 at 8:19 PM, Telegan said:

I hear there are weirdos that even like restored Ferraris, too.  The horrah!

I call them PLOD Ferraris. 

On 9/1/2023 at 5:22 PM, VintageComics said:

Some people like the most beautiful thing they can attain, some just want the thing no matter the shape, and some want a piece of a thing. 

Picassos and Ferraris are silly too, I guess. Or not. Guess it all depends on your perspective. 

 

I’d be happy with a 9.6 Ferrari or a 9.6 Picasso too, I don’t need a 9.8 of those either.

I like my Picasso’s with a tiny color breaking spine tick. 

On 9/1/2023 at 12:51 AM, StillOnly25Cents said:

on sale again right now on Taschen’s site (as well as Avengers Vol1) for anyone that missed it previously 

$100 each and free shipping

History Of EC Comics is $120

personally I can’t wait for a Vol3 and up with Romita Sr art but had to pick this up for the price … Taschen books are top notch

Silver Surfer is the next release coming

Thanks for this. $200 was a bit rich for me, got in now at $100. Waiting for the X-Men one to drop in price next.