wiparker824

On 12/31/2023 at 7:33 PM, grendelbo said:

I miss @etanick. 

I thought I was meticulous and generally good at self-grading… until I stumbled across his videos probably a decade ago now. Genuinely learned a lot from his YT. Don’t see channels like that anymore. Every channel is just MCU leaked so and so is playing the next villain in Doctor Strange 6, buy this random book now! now! now!

On 12/30/2023 at 8:18 PM, grendel013 said:

Yeah. 227 pages and Brees Larson Rivas still hasn't showed up to the party.

Probably didn’t help that we had a rather large section of pages talking about how we can get the FBI on her case. That wasn’t very welcoming of us. Drew Brees Larson Rivas if you’re out there lurking please join us we will hold on the FBI until we hear your take on “Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit???”

What say you?

On 12/30/2023 at 4:46 PM, Sigur Ros said:

100%

If the workforce was skilled, this wouldn't have happened.

I don’t know that this is a skill problem, certainly hard to believe anyways. This is a process problem more than likely IMO. It seems that more than likely the books for reholders weren’t even looked at, likely not even removed from the inner wells. Because if they were it isn’t hard to flip thru and verify a MJI. That’s a “skill” I can teach my 4 year old - find the books with the jewelry ad. Because if you’re going to keep allowing for ME and reholder on books where the corner cracked and the book can be slid out then the process must be to look at the actual book. The issue of course is this process costs more time, which is ultimately money. In hindsight I’m sure the CGC execs would agree that it would have been a good investment, but in the moment it was likely a cost saving measure on a process rather than a skill issue. 

On 12/30/2023 at 10:14 AM, Steven Valdez said:

And that's all the way here in Australia, just for context.

I’m just picturing a bunch of Australians waking up to a newsfeed on their phone saying WTF is a reholder? Who is CGC? And then proceeding to stomp out some deadly creature that wondered into their home.

On 12/30/2023 at 10:05 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Yup expect a shutdown by 1/2/2024

The hobby is over.  Action #1 are now worthless.

I don’t think 3 days is enough time for me to prepare for the zombie apocalypse. I need to find someone willing to trade slabs for antibiotics and bullets asap. 

On 12/30/2023 at 9:51 AM, Steven Valdez said:

As CGC themselves have stated, there are 'hundreds' of books involved. And Hulk #181 seems to have been a scammer's favourite.

Still a drop in the bucket for CGC/Blackstone. Now if the scammer’s favorite was ‘Tec 27 they might have been in trouble.

On 12/30/2023 at 7:38 AM, sledgehammer said:

It took some time, but I finally spotted what is in my mind, an absolute connection between a major submitter and the two names that I believe are involved with the various ebay seller IDs.

Another boardie and I have been bouncing things back and forth for many days.  @Heronext

I've made a video and took photos, of the wife of this submitter's facebook page. Just in case it is made private later.

That facebook page shows a comment from someone named Bree.

The search that I made much earlier for that name, shows someone that has lived in 3 cities, all relevant to this, including Kew Gardens NY

That search shows one of the people connected to that name, as having a name that contains the letters ZANE, which is part of the ebay ID Zaneglor..

An online search of that man, shows a woman in his family, with a name that contains GLOR.  In AZ. He also lived in Kew Gardens.

An online google search of his name, shows at one point, a comment made on facebook by his name, and right next to it, shows a comment by that same BREE name.

On the submitter's wife's facebook page, a friend of hers and her submitter husband, that BREE name, says "thanks for inviting us!"

I'm not going to call out that major submitter here, and ask for a response. It's completely feasible that he is not involved

I don't know if this info would be helpful to CGC, or not. I think it would be appropriate to ask for clarification on this, from the submitter.

@CGC Mike

 

I’ve seen the same name as you floated around, I’ve not seen the connection to a major submitter though. That’s potentially quite alarming, and my larger fear that there is a larger network involved. Hopefully whoever this submitter is was not aware or involved. 

On 12/30/2023 at 5:51 AM, RonS2112 said:

I know this comment is intended as tongue-in-cheek, but offering a free pedigree label for these books would be a really cheap, quick way for CGC to create value which might help compensate the owners of these affected books.

CGC doesn’t want these books to exist at all. They definitely don’t want to promote them with a new label. CGC has the backing of Blackstone. They can pay up to compensate a few hundred books, it’s not a big deal financially to them. The credibility hit and potentially losing market share over this on the other hand, well I’m sure that’s a very real threat they’re scrambling over.

On 12/29/2023 at 11:35 PM, wombat said:

Agreed. But the issue is the "most" people. So how many others (which I'm sure to your point would be a small number) have either been doing this or will. You also have to factor in how likely someone thinks they are to get away with something and way the risk reward. 

We do not know, and I’ve stated many pages ago we have no idea if this was the first person, just the first person to be caught. But my point was that just because others may have figured it out does not mean they automatically started a criminal enterprise. Most would do nothing with that knowledge. They certainly wouldn’t try to confirm it by sending in a fraudulent reholder for funsies.
 

So I’m guessing even if others found out the number was still relatively small, and of that small group most would not choose to become criminals. Of course this is just my guess, which isn’t any better than anyone else’s but that’s my reasoning behind my guess unless we learn more information. Otherwise I’m guessing the number of individuals doing this before this person is relatively small.

On 12/29/2023 at 11:26 PM, wombat said:

Probably not the greatest analogy. 

You can replace it with any crime you want that has a financial gain attached to it. Most people aren’t criminals. Most people who come across an opportunity to become a criminal turn it down, was my point. 

On 12/29/2023 at 11:24 PM, wombat said:

I would like to raise my hand and say I don't really know the steps to successfully pull off an armed robbery of a gas station. 

I never said successfully, but yeah I think most know the steps, point gun, ask for money, get money, run. I don’t recommend it.

On 12/29/2023 at 10:39 PM, BrashL said:

I totally disagree. We can be reasonably sure this single bad actor has been opening CGC slabs for at least 4-5 years and was only caught by a collector who specialized in a niche of the hobby and followed basically every sale. The slabs aren’t hard to open, and it’s inconceivable only one person has ever figured it out before now. 

Maybe, but keep in mind just because someone else might have figured it out doesn’t mean that person would do this… not everyone is willing to risk being caught and criminally prosecuted for a few thousand dollars they can make on a ASM 252. Look at it this way, almost everyone knows the steps to pull off an armed robbery of a gas station, yet only a small percentage of people actually do this. So when you combine the factors of very few knew how to do this with the fact that even if others knew most still would not, it makes it less likely for this to be a ton of people. The only way that changes in my mind is if we find out this person was working with a larger ring of people. 

On 12/29/2023 at 5:05 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Have you seen the videos posted in the last few days of how to do it?  And have you noticed how EASY it is?  Take a look at how many people have viewed these videos since they were released... 10k in TWO days on the CGC holder.  This has less to do with who's already done it.  It has EVERYTHING to do with how many can potentially do it going forward with 7-8 million susceptible slabs.  Once the trust in CGC is gone, it's game over for the slab gold rush, my friend. 

Slabs aren’t going anywhere. Worst case for CGC is they cede some of the market share to the other company that doesn’t currently have people popping their cases with a Walmart heat gun on YT, but that’s about it. The demand for the service CGC and other slabbing companies provide hasn’t changed overnight. It’s still there, and the demand will be filled by some company one way or another. Being someone that has a lot of CGC slabs I personally hope they figure it out but if not, life goes on. Some other company will fill that void.

On 12/29/2023 at 2:33 PM, MGsimba77 said:

Pretty tough to be far worse than a bunch of restored books in universal labels. 

This can be that and so much more. Restored, missing pages, coupon clipped, missing MVS, missing MJI, actually a lower graded copy, etc etc etc. A restored slipped into a blue label and sent for a reholder is just one variation of the possibilities this problem allows for. 

On 12/29/2023 at 2:13 PM, Lightning55 said:

My bad. Never mind on that one.

People are finding images and sales data from way back somewhere. We need a super sleuth. 

You are correct in recommending WP and I’m sure the eBay sales in the last 3 years can be found on TP. I don’t have WP, but I know it goes back further.

On 12/29/2023 at 2:04 PM, Lightning55 said:

Someone may be able to resurrect it on Worthpoint or Terapeak, if you provide the date, exact title, and eBay item number.

I have Terapeak but it still is limited to 3 years I believe. 

On 12/29/2023 at 1:56 PM, ShaggyB said:

Not exactly, Matt said this

"Not if you add a custom label. A re-holder that adds a custom label (which the ASM252 did) gets a new cert number. That’s what’s so weird here - it kept the same cert number."

So hes thinking its not normal to get the same cert on a reholder with custom label, but it is possible and happens all the time. Its always a new number when a grader reviews it again... but if it doesnt get a grader, it keeps the same number.

This is correct. I’ve submitted a number of reholders over the years and have never seen a new number come back, even when upgrading to a custom label. For those of you claiming otherwise if you don’t mind dropping the cert number I’d like to see an example, because usually a reholder not only retains its cert # it also retains its grade date. If you’re getting a new cert number without a regrade are you seeing a new grade date? 

Reholder and ME are not the same thing… and in this context, and particularly what CGC decides going forward I think it’s unwise to lump them together.

On 12/29/2023 at 9:12 AM, Imperare said:

Some would say the function of a CGC slab is to assist in the facilitation of a smoother transaction between aftermarket collectors.

The above quoted statement essentially necessitates the impossible task of CGC’s participation in every aftermarket transaction that involves one of their slabs. 

No, it doesn’t. Or at least it wouldn’t if they made a case that couldn’t be cracked, swapped with another book and then sent for reholder. But since they did, yes, all transactions involving those books now require their participation. Which to their credit, they have said in their release they are willing to do. 

On 12/28/2023 at 12:12 PM, BrashL said:

I mean he used a $50 dollar heat gun and some plastic solvent, that’s basically garage supplies. Nothing about what he showed is hard or expensive. 

Yep. Literally everything used is at any hardware store. These aren’t some top secret chemist tools used, even though we all probably wish it was that difficult. It appears it is not. 

On 12/28/2023 at 11:25 AM, drotto said:

But his method is reasonable, and is likely enough to get past a cursory check done during a reholder submission, especially ifthey arw claiming damage to the case as the reason foe the submission.  That is all that matters.  Plus, this person has only done this to a few slabs. The scammer may have a completely different method, but has also has done this many times and refined their methods with practice. 

Exactly. The video shows the most important piece, the heat gun being used to seamlessly open one of the pins on the corners. Yes he messed up the other one, and may have been sloppy with the sealant putting it back. But the fact he could pop that corner pin seamlessly means someone who actually spent a lot of time perfecting this could get this down to a science. This is just a guy who was trying something in his garage for fun on a couple books. That alone is alarming. 

On 12/28/2023 at 10:36 AM, paqart said:

I think the CGC response is appropriate. That said, it just occurred to me that CGC's liability for damages only goes as far as the buyer's cost. Meaning, they won't be compensated for the lost opportunity of a resale for a higher price. There may not be a way to do that. However, if I was a comic book investor, and all the comics targeted by the fraudster are "investment" comics, I wouldn't be interested in buying the comic and tying up my money if I knew I would only get the same amount back. That is a loss also, though one that cannot be precisely calculated, so buyers are likely out of luck on that point.

I’d imagine some will be resold to another unexpected buyer. I’m obviously not advocating that, but some (not all) of those that bought as an investment unhappy with whatever compensation they may receive from CGC will undoubtedly try to sell the problem to someone else without disclosing it and will keep attempting until they find someone who doesn’t research the cert number. 

On 12/28/2023 at 10:34 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Has anyone had newly graded books shipped back to them in the last week or so?  I have a UV submission received 12/21 that doesn't seem to be moving.  Just wondering if they've put a hold on sending books back out for the time being. 

They’ve been out of office for holiday. I believe 22nd and 25th.