Jaydogrules

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants). what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own. That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period. And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality. Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us. cheers joey ...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact. What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision. Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong. Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ? Just say the word. I'm ready. -J. Jaydog, what exactly is your modus operandi here? While I think you are basically an avid collector and good guy, you are starting to come across as a raving maniac. I just don't think anyone concurs with your observations, yet you keep badgering. What are you trying to accomplish ? I have already conceded. You win. YOU WIN. Now, can we all go back to playing nice ? Again, I have no MO, and I don't need anyone to "concur" with me. The data concurs with me and that is good enough for me. (thumbs u My only quibble is with some of the broad, grand, sweeping statements that continue to be made on the subject, that are unsupported by actual sales trends. -J. PS: I always play nice. There is no grading factor that matters, for every piece of sales data there will be something that refutes it. Tape, chipping, writing, pq, wrap. You have been given sales data from several dealers who had two almost identical books (we are talking about things that can't be identical) in which the one with a better PQ either sold faster or at a premium. Of course there will be exceptions. Life has exceptions. Y is not a vowel, EXCEPT when it is. All materials can go through the state changes (solid, liquid, gas)...well EXCEPT for things like Dry ice. Now shall we take data and skew it to look how we want it to? Sure the average person has 1 ovary. Does that mean if you cut an individual up you will find only 1? Nope but there are STATS to back up a claim. I give little credence to anecdotal, unreported dealer reports. Talk about the potential for skewing data. There are far, far more than one or two examples in the public domain for B & B 28 alone where the "PQ" on the label didn't matter a lick. In fact there are more examples where it did not seem to make a difference than when it did. Not that anyone would know either way, since no one other than the actual buyer can know what caused him to make his final buying decision. Final sales prices are all over the map when it comes to the "PQ" on the label. A theory that is random and inconsistent and impossible to quantify cannot be used to establish anything. -J.

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants). what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own. That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period. And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality. Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us. cheers joey ...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact. What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision. Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong. Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ? Just say the word. I'm ready. -J. Jaydog, what exactly is your modus operandi here? While I think you are basically an avid collector and good guy, you are starting to come across as a raving maniac. I just don't think anyone concurs with your observations, yet you keep badgering. What are you trying to accomplish ? I have already conceded. You win. YOU WIN. Now, can we all go back to playing nice ? Again, I have no MO, and I don't need anyone to "concur" with me. The data concurs with me and that is good enough for me. (thumbs u My only quibble is with some of the broad, grand, sweeping statements that continue to be made on the subject, that are unsupported by actual sales trends. -J. PS: I always play nice.

Bob, don't let Jaydog and his shenanigans frustrate you (I think that's 3/4 of what he wants). what's funniest about this whole page quality conversation (white vs other PQs) is that BB28 is the worst book to argue against the point that that PQ influences value. That's because there's only a few (maybe as low as 2) white page copies on the census. one is your 7.5 and the only other I know of is the 4.0 that I used to own. That 7.5 white pages copy at auction would sell for more than any 7.5, period. And yes, there are many different kinds of preferences out there - Drbanner just made this point but I'll reinforce.....some people will pay more for a book with no writing, some with no marvel chipping, etc. etc......but when page quality is considered as a preference, NOONE wants a book with lower page quality. Higher PQ books will attract a higher price all else equal -- AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL ELSE ISN'T OFTEN EQUAL. That's how rates of change are calculated in everything around us. cheers joey ...except when they don't and "all else" is never equal, and yes that makes all the difference in the world in fact. What you are basically saying is the the "PQ" on the label is the #1 consideration for everybody when making a buying decision. Sorry, but that is both presumptuous and flat out wrong. Shall I introduce examples of B&B 28 when it didn't happen ? Just say the word. I'm ready. -J.

Exactly, now you understand why books with white pages command a premium! ...except when they don't. -J.

I can't speak for others but I have always been fine having a decent looking raw copy of a 180 to go along with my CGC 9.6 181. I have never felt the necessity to own a graded 180 or spend any real money on a copy. -J.

Haha that AF 15 0.5 is my book and I agree with you 100%! Bob's reference to the "state of preservation" is not what you guys think it is. Take a 9.8, white paged Mile High book and tear half the cover and parts of several pages off and you get a 0.5 with white pages that is in an incredible "state of preservation" as the book is still nice and fresh. It has nothing to do with tears, creases, missing pieces, etc.,. The page quality question is really rather simple - books with white pages garner a premium over books with lesser quality pages because there are collectors that will pay more for a white-paged copy, all else being equal. There are no collectors that will pay more for a copy with lesser page quality, all else being equal. (thumbs u Except "all else" is never equal, and every collector has their own unique "deal breakers" and no one (other than the actual buyer) has any way of knowing what the deciding factor in a buying decision is or was on any given book. Hence why the conversation should begin and end with the statement "*I* will pay a 'premium' for a book simply because it says 'white pages' on the label", rather than the unsupported and purely speculative blanket statement that "There is a 'premium' for books that say 'white pages' on the label". Because there is none that is observed or provable with any consistency once the overall market at large is considered. It's all just speculation that is influenced by a person's own unique biases and preferences. -J.

Actually that pretty much sums it up exactly. (thumbs u -J.

I have some tough DC SA keys with "tan/cream" on the label that presents amazingly and that certainly did not sell for anything resembling a "discount". -J.

I've never seen the numbers with the circles. That's actually super cool. So that's what the BX stamped when you bought them, right ? Proof of purchase as it were. RMA, yes I know DM wasn't around in the early 70's, but the MJ inserts were around until the early '90's if I recall correctly. -J.

We'd have to determine the total amount of a print run that was distributed through Stars & Stripes and AAFES stores, so that number never seemed entirely out of line. That would only be 10,000 copies of a 200,000 print run for example. That less than 5% of your books have inserts might be more a result of your geography than anything else. If you lived near Fort Hood, Fort Bragg, or a large base in Germany I'd suspect you'd see a percentage greater than 5% of books that had inserts. It would be 5% of the newsstand editions, which would represent an even smaller percentage of the overall print run. Though RMA has indicated that he believes even that number to be high (which I may also agree with). -J.

Yes that one would definitely get a green label. -J. Incorrect. There is no way to know if a book came with a ND/MJI. Having a star doesn't mean it had an insert. I've seen it be about 50/50. However, if I see a star I will give the book the once-over for an insert. So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps? No to the first half, and yes to the second. But I personally would still take a pause if I was looking at an early/mid 70's book (in particular) with a star stamp but no insert. -J. There is no direct correlation. Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference. I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers. So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps? Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp. You are correct about this. I'll also add that my research has suggested that the inserts only came in "newsstand" editions, so no direct market copies will have them, thus narrowing the percentages further. I feel very comfortable with and stand by the 5% estimate as that seems to be the consensus amongst those who have *really* tracked these things. -J. 5% is the number batted around and it seems reasonable but I have never seen anything to back it up. MJIs only exist in books that appeared on the newsstand. I know of no legitimate example of a direct market MJI. Early on it was thought that they only appeared in books distributed from oversea. That has since been anecdotally disproven. I bought a collection with over 800 ND/MJIs that were purchased at Ft. Brag in the '70s. Another boardie (Shadrock?) said he bought his when he was stationed in updata NY. Excellent. So you disagree with it and/or question it when I say it, yet when somebody else comes in and basically says the same thing you say "excellent". Interesting. -J.

Jaydog, even though you dissed my BB28 with claims of photography tricks, notice I did not take the bait. You only like to reference data when it works in your favor. While debating the value of some 10 cent DC keys I presented the CGC census data to back my point. In that case, when the data did not work in your favor, you dismissed it claiming something about it not being relevant. I've never "dissed" anybody's book. That makes all the differnce in the world in our approaches actually. I am not attempting to make people feel their books are "inferior" for any particular reason. There is a buyer for every book and budget. I alluded that the differences in the "appearances" of your book and the other one at auction could be the result of the scanner (again, not that anyone can divine the "page QUALITY" of a book from a picture). I actually complimented your book earlier in the thread. I suppose you missed that. And I don't recall dismissing any data points you provided. I don't need to do that. There is a counter data point for any one you can muster. That is basically the entire point. It's random and erratic. Hence, once again, why there is no consistent or quantifiable alleged "premium" that can be proven based solely on the so-called "PQ" that CGC decides to put on a label on any given day. (thumbs u -J. Jaydog, I recall seeing your copy of an FF 48 in a different thread (nice copy BTW). It was a White Pager and you commented that you bought it because the colors really popped. The fact that the colors popped is a reflection of the preservation. Going hand in hand with that is the fact that it was also a White Pager. A white pager = better preservation = other enhanced qualities = more attractive book = higher demand = higher price. I think you are a closet White Page lover ! Thanks Bob! But would you believe that I didn't even notice that the book had "white pages" on the label until after I had already purchased the book and received it in the mail ? And yes, in theory everything that you are saying does "sound" like it should be right. But in reality, I have seen books with "white pages" on the label to have some edge tanning on the cover. To the extent that someone even asked if the "PQ" on the label applied to the covers as well. The consensus was that it does. The price of the book really is determined more by a book's overall eye appeal more than anything else, and certainly more than the "PQ" on the label, which would explain why book's with "white pages" on the label and marvel chipping will tend under perform a book with something else on the label and straight edges. Even that is not an absolute however, as not much ever is. (thumbs u -J.

Jaydog, even though you dissed my BB28 with claims of photography tricks, notice I did not take the bait. You only like to reference data when it works in your favor. While debating the value of some 10 cent DC keys I presented the CGC census data to back my point. In that case, when the data did not work in your favor, you dismissed it claiming something about it not being relevant. I've never "dissed" anybody's book. That makes all the differnce in the world in our approaches actually. I am not attempting to make people feel their books are "inferior" for any particular reason. There is a buyer for every book and budget. I alluded that the differences in the "appearances" of your book and the other one at auction could be the result of the scanner (again, not that anyone can divine the "page QUALITY" of a book from a picture). I actually complimented your book earlier in the thread. I suppose you missed that. And I don't recall dismissing any data points you provided. I don't need to do that. There is a counter data point for any one you can muster. That is basically the entire point. It's random and erratic. Hence, once again, why there is no consistent or quantifiable alleged "premium" that can be proven based solely on the so-called "PQ" that CGC decides to put on a label on any given day. (thumbs u -J.

Considering who they want to portray him, I would peg the "value" at somewhere around less than nothing now. -J. Just be lucky he isnt playing Spider-man. -J.

Considering who they want to portray him, I would peg the "value" at somewhere around less than nothing now. -J.

If even this announcement (assuming it's true) causes people to run out and purchase this comic, then we may really be in a "bubble". -J.

Yes. Presumably RF has a long history of conflict with the Flash. Only the Flash hasn't experienced this yet because it's in his future. It's also almost a 100% possibility that RF knows that the helmet belongs to Jay Garrick. He knows this because of his response to the appearance of the helmet and his long-standing knowledge of the past and future. He's practically a student of Flash history and if you know about the Flash, you'd have to know about the 1st Flash ever...especially if he's privy to the Speed Force and can for all intensive purposes mimick his power set. BTW: What's the likelihood that Jay Garrick DOESN'T come looking for his iconic helmet? I mean comeon, it's at least 50% of his costume....he'd be practically naked without it. Stands to reason he's going to attempt to locate it. Presumably he can see his "past, present and future" whilst travelling within the Speed Force itself and can therefore locate whatever he's looking for. Don't forget that Wally West has been or is being cast for the show (so we can expect to many more speedsters including Garrick): http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/78825/20150320/the-flash-tv-series-spoilers.htm http://www.blastr.com/2014-9-8/cws-flash-showrunners-reveal-plans-bring-wally-west-eventually Crisis on Infinite Earths #12 And........GO! -J.

Wow! I'm sure that's good news for sellers... not sure it's good news for fans of the character. Jaden Smith always looks frustrated that he can't get his single-serve milk carton open. Barf. -J.

A 678 parody would've been an instant classic. Oh well Right. I was hoping for a "first Gwen Stacy meeting" riff. (I think everybody was.) -J.

Pedigree is reporting to GPA a blue label 9.6 (with Eastman and laird internal sigs) selling for $12,500. -J.

-J.

Holy cr@p is that real ? -J.

This book is so badass.... +1 And these recent prices reflect that. -J.

Damn: http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-1974-CGC-GRADED-9-0-1st-WOLVERINE-BRONZE-KEY-/151666628367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item235009170f And holy mess: http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Incredible-Hulk-181-Nov-1974-Marvel-CGC-9-4-White-Pages-/171789904748?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ff79eb6c -J.

I agree with Valiantman's line of thinking that Superman #75 was the unofficial end of the Copper Age, and this came out months before that. I also didn't want it confused with the Harbinger modern series that began in 2012. (thumbs u -J.