Jaydogrules

Cool book, but is this not a modern ? -J.

Obvious scam. -J.

I recently sold my AF15 to pay off some debt and to start collecting these modern rare type issues. Yes the price is high now, but there is a possibility of a big payout 30 years from now (pure speculation of course). Supply drives price, so I decided to change gears and start collecting these kind of books. They've held their value pretty well, some more than others yes, but I'll take the risk of a 'mystery box' sitting somewhere waiting to be found for a chance to have what could be considered modern era gold in 30 years. Oh and Jaydog, call me when you want to sell that 667 I'm so jelly. Jerome Will do my man. But don't hold your breath....they may bury it with me. And I agree, it is inevitable that some of these moderns will end up as and/or remain classic collectibles in the future. It's a must if there is to be a future for the hobby. -J. Sure, I'd love to see some of these modern books remain as classic collectibles. It's just that more people now are aware of how collectible these comics can be compared to years back. I just hope that this hobby will remain healthy in the next generation or so. I think that is what we all want. We all have our opinions on certain books and arguments can happen trying to prove a point. When it's all said and done, you collect what you want and I collect what I want whether you take criticism from others of what you collect or how much you paid for a book. Which is why I never discuss how much I have actually spent on comics. -J.

I recently sold my AF15 to pay off some debt and to start collecting these modern rare type issues. Yes the price is high now, but there is a possibility of a big payout 30 years from now (pure speculation of course). Supply drives price, so I decided to change gears and start collecting these kind of books. They've held their value pretty well, some more than others yes, but I'll take the risk of a 'mystery box' sitting somewhere waiting to be found for a chance to have what could be considered modern era gold in 30 years. Oh and Jaydog, call me when you want to sell that 667 I'm so jelly. Jerome Will do my man. But don't hold your breath....they may bury it with me. And I agree, it is inevitable that some of these moderns will end up as and/or remain classic collectibles in the future. It's a must if there is to be a future for the hobby. -J.

There are books with print runs of 100 that sell for nothing. The Vampirella Royal Blues, for example. I just picked up 5 more copies of the Monthly #1 RB for $20 each. That's 5% of the print run (a little less, if overage is taken into account.) There are books with print runs of 10,000 that are monster successes, and there isn't enough to go around (Spiderman #1 Platinum, for example, or Venom #1 Gold.) Supply and demand is supply AND demand. If the demand is overwhelming, 1,000,000 copies might not be enough (look at Superman #75....4 million+ copies, and $100 within a month.) So, even if the print run for this book was 5,000...not saying it is, but if it was....and there were 100,000 people who wanted it....then yes, the prices could easily be thousands of dollars for it. After all....there are still tens of thousands of copies of Hulk #181 still in existence, but look at the prices it brings. ^ I agree with all of the above. (thumbs u -J.

"When one becomes so entrenched in their position of debate, pride alone blinds him to reason." - Jacques Cherez You are wasting your time with him. You can try, Rick tried, I have tried, others have tried. He won't budge on it. Sure won't. I like deferring to actual data. Crazy me. -J.

Fixed. RMA is that you ? -J. Jay, you make claims all the time that you never prove. Much, much worse than that, you become dismissive and demeaning when others disagree with your assertions, while failing to provide any documentary evidence of your numbers. Other people provide mountains of proof, of all sorts of things, and you reject it. Just prove what you're claiming. That's all. If what you say is true, then you should be able to prove it, and easily, since clearly you have access to information. That's all that's required. Diamond invoices, Marvel orders, circulation officers, COAs, printer's affidavits...anything that will prove the print run of any of these books you're referring to. Here's an example: That is documentary evidence that demonstrates that the print run for USM #1 DF was 5,000 copies. Now, it was probably more like 5,500, but it's close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. Anything that is proof of the print run for the ASM #678 variant would be fine. I think everyone here knows (or should know) that retailer incentive variant numbers are not made public. So I use the term "ESTIMATED print run". (thumbs u And I do apologize if some of my statements seem flippant, but I do find this "controversy" to be rather spurious. -J.

I didn't have as many details as you listed, but reading this thread made me think about that sex pistols record too. Bottom line is, weigh the facts and your preferences (risk, reward, space, short-term vs long term financial and collecting goals), and act accordingly, and also know that there's no way to convince everyone that you're right. Personally, I don't think there's THAT much more room to grow. Even though the number is limited, I would think we're nearing saturation point on people who DON'T have one that are willing to spend $1000+ to get one. To me there's a better chance that 50 high grade are submitted in the next 5 years than there is for there to be a Venom Mary Jane in a movie. So for me if I owned it purely for financial reasons, I'd be comfortable selling it. But if I was a collector who especially likes mary jane or spider man or venom or rare things or all of the above, then the personal value of owning it would also play a factor in my decision making. +1 That's why I have one. -J.

I can see it now(in a Stan Lee narrative pitch)... young Eisley Benton; son of billionaire internet tycoon; Borris Benton... in a effort to control the rare comic book variant market... young Benton; employs a cast of minions worldwide... to hoard rare 1:50 variants from various LCS... ...and just like that, the only two copies on ebay are gone. Great news. I should have my copy in a couple days and it's going right up there. -J.

I love your avi. -J.

It's Jaydog vs. the universe on this one. I usually stop reading when you bring this up, but has anyone ever agreed with you that PQ has no effect on price? On second thought, never mind because I'm not likely to read your answer. Yes. (thumbs u And I don't need anyone to "agree" with me in a thread on the subject. I'm completely at ease allowing the actual data points to validate my position. -J.

Using three recent examples, there is a bit of a discount on the lower page quality books: Greg's 4.0 copy sold at $3900 with slightly brittle pages: http://www.gregreececomics.com/Comics/BRAVE_AND_THE_BOLD_28_CGC_4_0_SB_PAGES There was a recent sale on eBay for a 3.5 with C-OW for $3750. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brave-The-Bold-28-1st-Justice-League-of-America-CGC-3-5-CREAM-OW-Pgs-/311355831454?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487e40f49e According to GPA, the most recent 4.0 sale of $4327 was for an OW-W copy in March (2 months ago and before the recent price run up - that is looking like a good deal now). My guess is that the 4.0 with OW-W would sell for closer to $5000, possibly more, in the current market due to the page quality. You are wasting your time with him. You can try, Rick tried, I have tried, others have tried. He won't budge on it. So in other news Flash ended yesterday and some really fun events! You're right. I won't budge because it is non existent. Please ask me to pull out some data points for this book in grade. Just ask me. You know they're there. And you know they will (once again) disprove the existence of any "premium" or "discount" either way. It's such an easy myth to debunk with publicly available data points. Anytime you want. Just ask. I'm ready. (thumbs u -J. Just like I can find points where Marvel Chipping sold for more than a book without. A book with tape sold for more than a book without. A book in a 4.0 sold for more than a 4.5. Once again nothing matters as I can find data points to support any claim. I agree. (thumbs u -J.

I can see it now(in a Stan Lee narrative pitch)... young Eisley Benton; son of billionaire internet tycoon; Borris Benton... in a effort to control the rare comic book variant market... young Benton; employs a cast of minions worldwide... to hoard rare 1:50 variants from various LCS... ...and just like that, the only two copies on ebay are gone. Somebody better call "the warehouse" and authorize them to release another dozen or so copies to the marketplace. -J.

I would pay 25 to 50% more for the 28 with white pages. It just looks better overall. (thumbs u That's great. But would it hurt your feelings if someone paid the same price (or even more) for the other book or one like it the next day or week on ebay? Because that happens all the time. -J.

please lead me to this obscure warehouse thats holding various comic books and being paid by a millionaire hoarder(of valuable comic books)... Yes please do because, as of now, I have only heard of a mere handful of books of note in the history of comics where that has actually happened. -J.

I can't say what "should" or shouldn't happen. There are myriad factors that can influence the final hammer price of a book, including but not limited to the sales venue itself. There is absolutely nothing absolute about any of it. That has always been my one and only real contention. (thumbs u -J.

I'm not entirely convinced the difference in appearances of those two books has more to do with the photography/scanner quality than with reality. Also, it's "page QUALITY" not "page colour". Therefore you cannot conceivably assess such of a book merely by sight. (thumbs u -J.

Using three recent examples, there is a bit of a discount on the lower page quality books: Greg's 4.0 copy sold at $3900 with slightly brittle pages: http://www.gregreececomics.com/Comics/BRAVE_AND_THE_BOLD_28_CGC_4_0_SB_PAGES There was a recent sale on eBay for a 3.5 with C-OW for $3750. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brave-The-Bold-28-1st-Justice-League-of-America-CGC-3-5-CREAM-OW-Pgs-/311355831454?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487e40f49e According to GPA, the most recent 4.0 sale of $4327 was for an OW-W copy in March (2 months ago and before the recent price run up - that is looking like a good deal now). My guess is that the 4.0 with OW-W would sell for closer to $5000, possibly more, in the current market due to the page quality. You are wasting your time with him. You can try, Rick tried, I have tried, others have tried. He won't budge on it. So in other news Flash ended yesterday and some really fun events! You're right. I won't budge because it is non existent. Please ask me to pull out some data points for this book in grade. Just ask me. You know they're there. And you know they will (once again) disprove the existence of any "premium" or "discount" either way. It's such an easy myth to debunk with publicly available data points. Anytime you want. Just ask. I'm ready. (thumbs u -J.

+1 And all the wild speculation and endless potential "what if" scenarios in the world don't change the fact that it is one tough book with one helluva wicked cover. -J.

Fixed. RMA is that you ? -J.

-J.

Then where are they? Marvel does that with "some" books perhaps. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that happened with this book, however, because it was not a covention book. (thumbs u -J. Maybe they are collectors too like we are so why should they sell if they can get it for free? Again, what is with the sudden obsession with all speculation trying to find copies of this book where there are and never were any ? Tell you what, anybody find a case of these books somewhere in the next 20 years, please feel free to PM me first. (thumbs u In the meantime it will be interesting to see how things ultimately turn out with the 100 or so copies that we actually have first hand knowledge of. -J.

I see no reason to repeat myself to you. (thumbs u -J.

Neither you nor RMA have presented any actual "fact". The "fact" is there are only 92 copies of this book on the census even after 3.5 years, and a book that has consistently sold for a high dollar since its release. The "fact" is that its high dollar value is partly due to its rarity, both in high grade, in the census, and its availability on the market. The "fact" is that ASM sales were half then what they are now, so not many retailers were blowing up their orders to qualify for this variant. The "fact" is that there are other high dollar moderns with comparable estimated print runs (500) that have even more slabbed copies accounted for than this one (wolverine 1, siege 3 campbell). Those are the "facts". Here now is what you and RMA have speculated about: You have speculated that there is a warehouse full of copies of this book. You have speculated that there are low census numbers only because people aren't bothering to slab this high dollar book. You have speculated that marvel may some day sell "extra copies" of this book for $5. You have speculated that marvel over-printed this book even in a down Spidey market because....well, just because. Contrary to your opinion on the matter, Marvel has, on many, many occasions, printed much less than 1000 copies of a variant. To suggest or state otherwise is pure nonsense. I think that just about covers it. (thumbs u -J. I guess that must be a fact. Which issues? Prove it. Prove the SOP? See Valiant's post. Is an exception ever more likely than the standard? No, of course not. Which is why this book and only a handful of other moderns consistently sell for major dollar signs. (thumbs u -J.

Then where are they? Marvel does that with "some" books perhaps. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that happened with this book, however, because it was not a covention book. (thumbs u -J.