HighStakesComics

Omni Play Horse Racing was actually really good as well for the C64.

I was just scrolling through a list of old games. Karateka and a defenders of the Crown were life changing. I forgot about those.

Dark Castle?

Smurfs, surprisingly, was really good on that Colecovision. I've tried to cut gaming off, but by now its embedded into my routine. A few nights a week I have to play after the family goes to bed for an hour or two. The newer systems have made great strides. If you happen upon a nice collection, or get a gift grade beyond your wildest dreams you might want to attempt a gaming rediscovery.

Wolfenstein was ALMOST before MY time, and I have you beat by 3 years. Bard's Tale is from 1985. Doom is from 1993. That's quite a stretch, in computer programming years. I just looked it up...Castle Wolfenstein was released in 1981...so, you would have been 6. Kinda young for computer games...? Right, that's why I played Doom. Bards Tale 2 & 3 were the ones my buddy and I played on his Commodore Amiga, so thats probably closer to 87-88. One summer we had the guide book for Bards Tale 2 and still couldn't win the game. It was embarrassing. Civilization was a helluva game back in the day. I believe that was 1994. All classics. I played Zorks 1, 2 and 3 on the Commodore 64, that was the "family computer." We also played Track & Field ENDLESSLY. I always played for West Germany. "Deutschland uber allllllessssss..." (I wonder how many people still know there was a West and East Germany...?) And yes, it really was for the whole family. My parents paid like $1,000 for it. There's more computing power that goes INTO THIS POST than the entire Commodore 64 had. I played a little Zork. I liked it, but I seem to remember getting stuck and not being able to figure out what command to use. I threw in the towel after that. My first system was the classic 2600. Joust, Pitfall, Missle Command were family favs. We upgraded to the Intellivision, which aside from AD & D was miserable. After that was the C64 and an Ultima bender, which didn't end well either. After that came the Doom and Bards Tales AKA the Golden Years. Once I got to college my roommates and I were playing MarioKart and WCW/NWO competitively for stacked bongtokes on the N64. After graduation I had a fling with the Dreamcast before moving onto the 360 and now the XBox 1. The Marvel Lego Super Heroes alone is worth the cost of admission. Spoiler-Phoenix is the most powerful character IMO. I've also dabbled in a little IPad Magic. The 2015 is a big upgrade if you are into that.

Not much of a gamer, Sir?

Wolfenstein was ALMOST before MY time, and I have you beat by 3 years. Bard's Tale is from 1985. Doom is from 1993. That's quite a stretch, in computer programming years. I just looked it up...Castle Wolfenstein was released in 1981...so, you would have been 6. Kinda young for computer games...? Right, that's why I played Doom. Bards Tale 2 & 3 were the ones my buddy and I played on his Commodore Amiga, so thats probably closer to 87-88. One summer we had the guide book for Bards Tale 2 and still couldn't win the game. It was embarrassing. Civilization was a helluva game back in the day. I believe that was 1994. All classics.

Yep, he was a whack job. Kind of a right place, right time scenario as far as his ascension to power. Somebody firing up the locals at biergartens would never make it past state rep in the days of CNN. I think the Germanic people as a whole were on tilt from the entire hyperinflationary fiasco. Their leaders had failed them so often, they went with the guy who spoke with the most conviction. Yep, I watch a lot of Smithsonian.

When you take a nap at the underground hq it takes you back to the original game in the Xbox1 version. I was raised on Doom an Bards Tale, RMA. I am 39. The Vegas over/under on Jaydog is 16.5.

I think RMA is reading that Hitler biography again, trying to figure out how to finish off JayDog. I'm anticipating a scathing, 3000 word essay, a briefer version of Mein Kampf, but instead of Germany he will discuss the struggles of Cerebus #1 to gain any respect in grades below 9.2. Speaking of Hitler, I'm about to boot up Wolfenstein on the XBox One. 3 words. Un ducking believable.

It's been ice cold forever. I'm using the contrarian approach.

Originally I planned on hoarding GL 87's, but I think at least 20 other people have the same idea. Had to go with plan B.

It proves that a 9.2 with poor pq for grade can still command significant interest when priced 25% above the 90 DMA

$200 is 15% below the 90 DMA anyways. Like I said a dozen or so posts ago, not much downside.

For $200, Ill take my chances. No guts no glory. If it doesn't work out I know where to find you

There's a few more left if anyone else is interested

That's awesome! I just bought a 9.4 WP on comiclink. Thanks for getting me off the fence!!

And keep in mind... not all sales are listed on GPA, even from the auction houses. This would be higher than anything on GPA for the book in 8.5, listed in July and already sold: 1.)You're right 2.)If another Hulk 181 9.2 goes for over $3k, it would be a slight favorite. Let me ask you this. If every house in your neighborhood has sold for $250k until your neighbor, in an identical home, gets $300k. Do you list your house for $250k or $300k? 3.)It's close as well, but with the recent Cerebus #1 8.5's sales I believe the weak #'s would pull the third highest graded 9.0's down with them. 181 would be favored, head to head, in a 10 day auction. 4.)You do a great job of cherry-picking highest graded 9.4's. In 9.2, the latest GPA pedigree sale (Savannah), was almost 50% lower than the prior recorded sale. (I know GPA isn't the only place OPG gets it's data) 5.)Because it's one of the rarest, most collectible Star Wars pieces on the planet in high grade. It's the champ. A 9.2 would sell for double the Cerebus #1 in the same grade.

So just so we have something to show for the 10,000+ word essays Jaydog and RMA have put into this healthy debate can we all agree on the following?: 1.)In 9.4 Cerebus #1 is undoubtably more valuable than Hulk 181. 2.)In 9.2, the 181 and Cerebus are too close to call. The lack of recent Cerebus 1 sales in grade (available through public data points) and a few all time high 181's in 9.2 make for a compelling argument, but if both books were listed in 10 day auctions on the same venue the line in Vegas would be close to even as to which would bring the higher hammer price. Just how close these books are in price is further evidenced by OPG changing their rankings year over year. 3.)In 9.0 and below, the 181 is decisively pricier than Cerebus #1. 4.)DC 100 Page Super Spectacular #5 has no business making the BA top 10 list. 5.)Star Wars #1 $.35 variant is hands down the most valuable book of the genre.

This. I just filled in the details. I've already stated my position, RMA. Jaydog himself conceded that the Cerebus #1 is the book to own in 9.4. Here's the one issue that troubles me: If OPG doesn't rely solely on GPA, and they use arms length transactions along with other data points when determining a books value, why then are they assigning the Cerebus #1 a 9.2 value of only $2100? If they are utilizing their team of advisors to appraise the value of a copy just below NM, and these dealers have conducted transactions that would lead them to believe the monetary value of a 9.2 copy is only $2100, how then could we conclude beyond any shadow of a doubt that its the more valuable book when Hulk 181's in similar grade are clearing $3k in transparent, online transactions?

That's the white elephant in the room that has been ignored. Folks like RMA would rather point out the merits of another poster's auto correct ("Cerberus" vs. "Cerebus", my phone doesn't care either, my man) or how they choose to abbreviate "Overstreet", than the fact that about the only thing Overstreet is good for at this point is maintaining the status quo for old school collectors and giving local dealers something to low ball you with when you try to sell your books. It's great that some dealers can anecdotally recount how well their copies of Cerebus sell when they have them, there will always be a buyer for a book at some price. But again, if the book had an availability that was half (or even a quarter?) of Hulk 181, It would likely not be of any interest to even the niche collectors who like to feel like they have something "rare" in their collections. Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else. The value of hulk 181 is intrinsic and real. If Hulk 181 had the same print run as Cerebus it would probably be a 250k book in a 9.4. If Cerebus had the same print run as Hulk 181 it would probably be a 20 dollar book. I believe that is the point others have been trying to make when expressing bewilderment about Overstreet's list. And no, hulk 181 hasn't "slowed". It's actually having its best year from a price appreciation standpoint in a long time. (thumbs u -J. This post really sums the situation up nicely. The argument about price to defend why ceres is important is not valid. Yes, it is expensive. But that has to do with the low print run and NOT because it is so sought after by a lot of people. Like you say..if they were equal print runs there would be a world of difference. Few people want the book but because of the low print run the value is such that the meager demand still is greater than the even more meager supply...therefore from a business pow we would like to have the book because we know it can sell for a high price. But again...not because it's an important character...because it has a low print run.. Why is there such a surplus of people willing to chuck reason out the window...? :shrug: The entire post you just said "summed up the situation nicely" is absolutely filled with bad reasoning, flawed understanding, and borderline libel. And then, you add your own to it! There are PLENTY of books that have print runs AND census counts AS LOW, or LOWER than Cerebus #1...but they do NOT sell for four figures in 9.0+. NO ONE is arguing that Cerebus #1 (not "ceres") is important because of its value. The argument is that Cerebus #1 has value because it is important It is supply AND DEMAND which runs a market. Why does that demand exist? Do you know the history of Cerebus, and how it influenced the comics industry? Do you really believe what you just posted...? Oy, people, come ON! Why do you post such things, for all the world to see? Gentlemen...we MUST use reason! Yes, logic is king. By the way, noone is saying that Cerebus is worthless. It has some meaning and more than many other books. However, the high price is mostly due to the low supply. Let try to see if an example brings it home for you: If 1.000.000 people think book A has the most important character while 5 people think book B has the most important character. Then which book objectively has the most important character? --- Good... Now, let's add this information: There are printed 2.000.000 copies of book A. There are printed 2 copies of book B. Which book might fetch the highest price? It might very well be book B - simply because there is not enough supply to satisfy demand. Market Theory 101. However, as was demonstrated, that does NOT mean that book B is the more important book. Logic. It's a close call. I see your logic, but give this a shot. Even though there are 50X more graded copies of the 181, there are 5 copies of Cerebus that are worth more than every single copy of 181, except the single 9.9, which is an anomaly. There was a great point made by Chuck earlier. You have $1000 to spend on either book and they both appear NM what comic do you go with? If money means anything to the buyer, it's a simple question to answer. However, there are 8.5 Cerebus 1's on comiclink that aren't bid up anywhere near their 181 counterparts. This cannot be ignored either. There are merits to both sides, but if I had to pick a winner I know it's Cerebus #1 by a nose. Also important to remember and someone did bring it up earlier that Cerebus was ranked lower than 181 last year, and the new rankings were effective when the book was published a few months back before the 181's in 9.2 broke $3k. It's been a while since a highest or second highest Cerebus #1 has come to market, and this may cause a bidding war if one were brought to auction. If one of the 3 SS 9.4's were bumped, I would love to see the hammer price of a 9.6, or better yet a 9.8.

Wow. Wow is right. Especially since a 9.4 File Copy SS sold for $10,600 in 2004 and two others sold in-between that for $7700... it's averaged $8780 over a TEN YEAR PERIOD. That's pretty amazing. In that same time, Hulk #181 has topped out at $3300 for Blue Label and $4300 for SS over that same period. If I was a dealer and I had the option to buy just one of them for $500 to flip.... Why WOULDN'T it be Cerebus? If you think it has a shot at 9.4 or better, you take Cerebus and don't bat an eye. If its mid grade-VF you jump on the 181. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. Maybe an easier question would be why are both these books behind GL 76 on the list?

Your making the same mistake many dealers did in the old days of using the OSPG. Assuming that if a vg is $5 and a fn is a $10, then a NM must be $20. It's wrong. Please elaborate, good sir. I'm not sure I follow you. You said: You came to that conclusion using what data is there and assuming it would go up in price exponentially. It doesn't work that way in the actually market place. Chuck Rozanski proved it 37 years ago when he found the Mile High Collection and all of those HG collectors came out of the woodwork and paid multiples of guide for those harder to find books in THOSE grades. He realized, having those books, in THAT condition, was more valuable than Overstreet was aware of. And he was right. Overstreet had always priced things exponentially - vg is $5, next up is $10, next is $20... and Chuck R. proved it doesn't work that way, and almost ANY dealer in comics knows it doesn't work that way and the whole concept of how CGC made a handful of people millionaires is based upon that understanding. It's not surprising to most that a HARDER to find (i.e. lower print run/scarce/hoarded), sought after, rare, important comic in HG is worth MORE sometimes than a popular easy to find important comic in the same grade. Doesn't matter how many more the popular book has proven to sell over time or what anyone thinks or believes or how few sales you can compare (that's actually part of what MAKES it more valuable, see?)... when it happens, it works that way. It's been going on for almost 40 years like that. Wolverine is still popular and cool or whatever. The market just works that way. I've read your posts before, and for the most part you make sense, but it doesn't seem like you realize the low end of my range is roughly 10% higher than OPG guide value. In other words, you didn't just tell me anything I didn't already know. I wasn't sure where you were going with this.

Your making the same mistake many dealers did in the old days of using the OSPG. Assuming that if a vg is $5 and a fn is a $10, then a NM must be $20. It's wrong. Please elaborate, good sir. I'm not sure I follow you.

RMA, you have a way with words, no doubt. The gpa data of both books in 9.2, however, seems for the moment at least to favor the #181. No 9.2 Cerebus #1, per gpa, SS or Universal, has ever breached $3000. Assuming the last Hulk #181 in 9.2 was legit, it just sold for almost $700 more than any copy, SS or otherwise, of Cerebus #1 in any grade 9.2 or below. No Cerebus #1, aside from the highest graded, has ever breached $3k. By analyzing the sparse data availible on Cerebus #1 in 9.2, an appraisal of $2300-$2800 for a Universal 9.2 seems reasonable. This may even be generous since most recorded sales are SS or a file copy. The most recent sale of 181, drug induced or not, would give that book an edge based strictly on the data.