HighStakesComics

No LB Cole, Alex Schomburg or Jim Steranko? Lots of good ones, but Kirby and Adams in a class by themselves IMHO.

Three turtles related books on the list is overkill. And even raw copies of nm 98, asm 300 and ba 12 sell for more than a couple hundred dollars each. They are far more influential books than almost anything else on that list as well. This CA list does seem a bit of a throwaway list to Overstreet. -J. Yep. The BA #12 sells for >$200 in 7.0-8.0 raw. Not sure how that's left out in 9.2, unless they consider that a modern vs copper age.

I know which one Id rather own, but note OPG gives GG a value $100 higher in 9.2

Nah, the Star Wars variant is the champ. It's worth 2X the #2 book on the list in 9.2, so arguing its dominance may be pointless. Gobbledygook #1 vs Star Wars #1 $.35 may make for an interesting debate though.

Thanks. Clearly, it's an error/oversight. But $15,000 for OAAW #83? That's madness. Just madness. I don't remember what I sold mine for, but it was in 2002-2003, for probably a couple hundred dollars or so...it was a nice VG/F or better, too. Yeah, Id probably take my chances with the FF 2. There's some guys on this board though that are really into War comics. Your buddy, Mr. Greenham, has multi-page article about them in this edition. The Copper Age list is all over the place. Variants have jumped the shark. I don't mind the BA 35 centers, but half the books on the Copper Age list? You know how I feel about a few of the BA's. GL 76 is about 4 or 5 spots too high. The last two on the list are a bit shaky IMO as well.

It doesn't look real clear. I have my scanner set at the minimum requirements for the board. It does say that OAAW 83 is a $15k book in 9.2, which would be good enough for 19th on the list. The BA list is also there as well. Enjoy

bronzejonny has a point. OAAW 83 has the higher value in 9.2.

I got ya covered, RMA. Give me 5 minutes.

If a buyer is willing to draw a line in the sand and is willing to support the market for any copy at X dollars, then it technically isn't shilling. It's the equivalent of placing a stop limit buy order in the stock market. Apple might trade at $101, but I can basically put in an order to buy as many shares that are made available at $95 until my cash runs out. This guy might just be bidding guide value on any copy that goes up for auction. Nothing illegal or unethical about it. It's probably just a buying strategy. Shilling is creating a separate account to bid up your own books. It's deceptive since the buyer has no interest in purchasing the book, but is trying to bilk every penny out of prospective bidders. That is dishonest, illegal and unethical. Since the sellers of these copies appear to be different parties, I can't imagine that's what is happening here.

Finally! Jaydog says something TRUE! RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question? Kamala Harris, your state AG is 27:1 for the 2016 election. You like that play or throwing money away? I'm not a fan of Kamala Harris, and she obtained the office corruptly. She's marketable and I like them odds. Contemplating her at 27:1, Sen Rand Paul @ 21:1 and wagering whatever I put on those two on Hillary at 5:4. If one of the two long shots hit its payday. If Hillary wins I get back investment + ticket out to Vegas to place the bet at Ceasers. These are the odds available in London. Once the futures hit the states there may not be as much meat on the bone, but we will see.

PM sent

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for. In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.) Irrelevant? As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant. As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated??? A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So... You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136? Is that what you'd do? Of course not. You'd put it up for auction. Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by? A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500. The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts. They agree - it'd rock. See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right? Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone? One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint. They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that. Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. Above guide? Above guide. We just switch from GPA to the guide when it suits us in the conversation. Do you guys work for Kevin Smith or what? As opposed to what Bob Overstreet thinks, who's been doing it for 44+ years, and pools his information, not JUST from GPA, but from raw sales reported by national dealers from all over the country and, ok... yeah. Yeah, that's what people do with $9000. Just throw it up there, maybe I'll get lucky. That's exactly how it works. Ok. People who's opinion I respect a lot more than yours think otherwise. You'd auction it? Why? You seem to already know what the price would be... If you were to get your home appraised you would need a few comparable sales to justify the value. There isn't a single 9.2 sale we can find anywhere that indicates the book would breach $3k, let alone $3750. Neither GPA or OPG can be used to state your case. By the same token, there is a sale that you have not mentioned once that does not help your cause one bit. In 2/2012 an SS 9.0 copy sold for a little over $1430. Nothing about this sale, which is as good a comp as any we have, would demonstrate any reason to estimate a value of $3750. There was a 9.0 before that which had hit roughly $1750, but the book was a file copy and SS. 2 out of the 3 best comparables did not even reach $2k. $3750 is a reach. That number is simply unrealistic. As far as the 9.4 sale that you are in love with, yes, people whose opinion you respect more than mine have probably bought a book for no other reason than they thought it was a strong upgrade candidate. I've done it. Potentializing is part of the game. It just made a guy >$1,000,000 doing exactly that on an Action #1 tonight. If you don't think this occurs in less expensive books like the Cerebus #1, you could possibly be experiencing some naïveté.

Finally! Jaydog says something TRUE! RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question? Kamala Harris, your state AG is 27:1 for the 2016 election. You like that play or throwing money away? Please don't allow politics to derail this thread. No politics, good sir. Just asking for an opinion on risk/reward from someone that may be more familiar whose opinion I respect. There's a couple longshots on the board that present reasonable perceived value. Until a copy goes up for sale we are merely recycling the same arguments at this point anyways.

Hi Chuck, I notice that you keep making the same point above in regards to 9.4 graded copies. However, since Overstreet's top 10 list is based on value in NM-, what 9.4's sell for is almost (but not quite) as irrelevant as what 8.5's sell for. In regards to 9.2's, IMO, arguments can be made from both sides (as they are) as to which would sell for more today (a lot of which might vary depending on the attractiveness of a particular copy, sales venue, auction vs. fixed price, etc.) Irrelevant? As a dealer, getting CGC graded 9.4 Cerebus #1 would NEVER be irrelevant. As far as the 9.2 goes... My GOD, how many times does this have to be repeated??? A) One sale from 2005 is all GPA has. So... You mean to tell me, and I expect you to answer this question, that as a dealer - if you got in that Cerebus #1 CGC 9.2 - you'd put it out for sale at - $2136? Is that what you'd do? Of course not. You'd put it up for auction. Gee. What would it go for? What do we have to go by? A 9.4 from March of this year which blew the doors off, and a 9.0 from last year that hit $2500. The logical guess is - it'd do more than $2500. Would it meet half way at about $5000? A quarter of the way at $3750? Let's ask some experts. They agree - it'd rock. See, you can't go by one sale from 9 years ago. You understand that right? Like, what did 9.2 Hulk 181's sell for in 2005? $1000? $1250? Anyone? One of the other things OSPG uses is the advise and imput from some of the long time dealers who handle these books everyday. They're looking at it, not from a 'I LOVE Wolverine standpoint, but from a BUSINESS standpoint. They know how to use GPA. And they're smart enough not to price ANYTHING by one sale from 9 years ago. They'd have never made it in the business this long if they did that. Hmmmmmmmm.....$3750 is about 60% above guide. I think that's a little ambitious. Whoever bought the last 9.4 might have thought it had 9.6, single highest graded potential, and could have overpaid for the opportunity to find out. I could probably just as easily argue on behalf of the Cerebus #1 Like I said, dead heat. We won't figure this out until another 9.2 hits the market. If this goes on for much longer I may have to sniff one out and auction it off myself.

Finally! Jaydog says something TRUE! RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question? Kamala Harris, your state AG is 27:1 for the 2016 election. You like that play or throwing money away?

Finally! Jaydog says something TRUE! RMA, can I ask your opinion on a completely unrelated, off-topic question?

Exactly. If each book was offered for "$500 less than market value," the Cerebus would go for more money. Because, in 9.2 and up, it's worth more (grade for grade) than IH 181. The market value has been established. The current CGC 9.2 value for Cerebus 1 might be theoretical due to lack of recent GPA-verified data, but Overstreet's not wrong to state that Cerebus 1 in 9.2 is worth more than IH 181 in 9.2. That's what it's Top 10 Bronze List means; that's the parameters of the "value" discussion. And on that score, it's the Cerebus. Every time. 9.2 is a statistical dead heat. Cerebus #1 has commanded sales greater than the 181's 90 DMA (day moving average), but 181 has had a recent sale in 9.2 higher than Cerebus #1 has in any grade south of 9.4. It would probably come down to venue. 181 might win a battle of the 9.2's on ebay, Cerebus #1 may win on Link, HA or Metro. You have no way of making these claims. There is simply no way to know. There is only a single sale, from 9 years ago. The 9.4 sales, both SS and the single Universal (a clue!), suggest that a 9.2 would sell for more than the 2005 sale, but it's only a suggestion. The highest sale price among all recorded data points for a 181 9.2 took place this month on ebay. That is not a claim, it's a fact. I wonder what a 9.4 would have gone for? You have misunderstood. I wasn't disputing the sale of the Hulk #181 in 9.2. It cannot be disputed. I am disputing the comparison of the single 9.2 sale of Cerebus #1 from 9 years ago to the AVERAGE value of a Hulk #181 9.2 as essentially unknowable. It sounds like we agree. That's why I called the 9.2's a dead heat. The Cerebus #1 9.2 is the wild card. Not enough data. Since that is the case Id have to side with OPG, but Hulk 181 has stronger recent data, and is without question the bigger book. It's making a pretty good argument. We should probably just revisit this once a copy of the #1 turns over.

Exactly. If each book was offered for "$500 less than market value," the Cerebus would go for more money. Because, in 9.2 and up, it's worth more (grade for grade) than IH 181. The market value has been established. The current CGC 9.2 value for Cerebus 1 might be theoretical due to lack of recent GPA-verified data, but Overstreet's not wrong to state that Cerebus 1 in 9.2 is worth more than IH 181 in 9.2. That's what it's Top 10 Bronze List means; that's the parameters of the "value" discussion. And on that score, it's the Cerebus. Every time. 9.2 is a statistical dead heat. Cerebus #1 has commanded sales greater than the 181's 90 DMA (day moving average), but 181 has had a recent sale in 9.2 higher than Cerebus #1 has in any grade south of 9.4. It would probably come down to venue. 181 might win a battle of the 9.2's on ebay, Cerebus #1 may win on Link, HA or Metro. You have no way of making these claims. There is simply no way to know. There is only a single sale, from 9 years ago. The 9.4 sales, both SS and the single Universal (a clue!), suggest that a 9.2 would sell for more than the 2005 sale, but it's only a suggestion. The highest sale price among all recorded data points for a 181 9.2 took place this month on ebay. That is not a claim, it's a fact. I wonder what a 9.4 would have gone for? As for the MP #7 destroying the Danielle Steele novel, anyone with $10.95 can witness the 90 DMA crushing the last 9.2 sale, which happened to be a pedigree. All there on gpa. Once again, not claims.......facts.

Exactly. If each book was offered for "$500 less than market value," the Cerebus would go for more money. Because, in 9.2 and up, it's worth more (grade for grade) than IH 181. The market value has been established. The current CGC 9.2 value for Cerebus 1 might be theoretical due to lack of recent GPA-verified data, but Overstreet's not wrong to state that Cerebus 1 in 9.2 is worth more than IH 181 in 9.2. That's what it's Top 10 Bronze List means; that's the parameters of the "value" discussion. And on that score, it's the Cerebus. Every time. 9.2 is a statistical dead heat. Cerebus #1 has commanded sales greater than the 181's 90 DMA (day moving average), but 181 has had a recent sale in 9.2 higher than Cerebus #1 has in any grade south of 9.4. It would probably come down to venue. 181 might win a battle of the 9.2's on ebay, Cerebus #1 may win on Link, HA or Metro. Unless they show up in 9.2 and identical pq somewhere, we are probably beating a dead horse. Even OPG has flip flopped on this over the last 13 months. It is that close. Next year OPG may move 181 ahead once again, and I have little doubt Marvel Preview 7 will knock out the DC 100 Page 5 once and for all.

I agree. I bought a decent BA collection this week and the Firestorm #1 was missing a page Still makes a great bonus book. And, yes, prices moving higher every week.

I vaguely remember it being pretty good.

That's a decent point, jaydog. We are relying a bit heavily on "shadow" data here. I'm not saying there isn't data, but it's not like we've had a testamonial from someone who has sold one lately. You'd have thought this thread would catch someone's eye. Anyhoo, not to change the subject, but once again, I feel both of these would outperform a GL 76, the #2 book on the list I believe, if sold in the same auction, in the same grade, with similar pq.

No, this is definitely from the early 90's, with much more advanced graphics. Alright, alright. Hang in there, buddy. We can get to the bottom of this. I guess we can rule out ghouls and ghosts, the sequel to Ghosts and Goblins as well, right? Was it Cauldron?

No, this is definitely from the early 90's, with much more advanced graphics. Alright, alright. Hang in there, buddy. We can get to the bottom of this. I guess we can rule out ghouls and ghosts, the sequel to Ghosts and Goblins as well, right?