Cat

I went from reading the Kirby/Lee material on Masterworks format as a kid at the local library and falling in love, to finding some of those issues at a second hand store on holiday once, trying to read them, and giving up, wondering what the hell had happened to the book (despite there being clear credits I somehow missed those and thought it was the same people, and that they'd gotten old and gone massively downhill). A few years later my mother picked up an issue for me at the newsagents: issue 387, by Tom DeFalco and Paul Ryan. It had the right feel to young me, and the art was certainly on point. I collected since then until I gave up during Slotts' run (just had enough of the monthly grind, and a massive backlog of material to get through already, nothing personal). 

But man, those issues threw me for a loop. 

11 hours ago, Larryw7 said:

It would become dollar box fodder.

 

'Get your IH181's, get your IH181's here! Free with any purchase of Youngblood #1!' 

On 6/30/2021 at 10:06 AM, Mecha_Fantastic said:

I'm just about to start reading the end of DeFalco/Ryan run Fantastic Four, via a mix of single issues and trade paperbacks(oh I'm sorry: Epic Collections). Just gonna be whatever I find first. 

I'll probably just do the leadup issues to 400,then just finish the run out til 414 or 416, whichever it was. 

It's such a shame the book got to this point. I actually enjoyed both creator's work on the book, so I don't know why they had a constant Sword Of Damocles over their whole run. 

 

The problems are showing. Any main character other than Ben has dialogue that is pretty interchangeable, and some of the stories aren't the best, and are quickly forgotten, despite being lifechangers for the world, because we've already been slungshot onto the next plot, with very little (usually no) breathing room. 

Paul Ryan's art is still the saving grace to me. It's perfection, but I see how people didn't like it in the Image Era. To me it's heavenly. We've already got a few figures of his costumes over the years (1994 FF Reed included a very Ryan Jacket, Hasbro's first ML wave Sue costume was from #387) and with the upcoming retro wave featuring the blue and white, I'd love to get a whole Paul Ryan wave in his honour. 

I'd been talking with him about getting an FF commission, but sadly, I drug it out too long, figuring I'd get it done down the track, and then he sadly passed away. I know a lot of people don't like his art because it's not terribly dynamic, but I love it. To me it's very classic, and very Marvel. Perfect for the Fantastic Four. But I'm biased, as I grew up on this run. 

9 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Giant-Size X-Men would be the mega-key, and no reason why he couldn’t have been raised to a similar level as Wolverine.  A similar anger and intensity.  Chris Claremont later on created Forge, another Native American mutant, and no reason that Claremont and Byrne couldn’t eventually have made Thunderbird’s characterisation as three-dimensional as Logan’s.

Weapon X would have experimented on Thunderbird in some way, enhancing his physical attributes. Unknown to him his father, a whispered genius, was kidnapped and forced to work on the project, torturing his son for their own twisted purposes. His father? Forge. *

*Yeah I know, Apache and Cheyenne. But this was before they were on the page. Easy to change to that stuff so it never was. 

5 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

I liked Thunderbird, and was happy when his brother appeared in the 80s with similar abilities. Good character, same with Warpath.

Warpath really started gaining traction at one stage, from X-Force (non-Liefeld Crain one) and then onto the X-Men proper circa Uncanny 475. He even got his first Marvel Legends figure around this time (I think he also got a 4inch version too), with a variant showing a more classic look. Things were really looking up for him. Then, they pushed him into the background for reasons unknown, he lost all his heat, and he hasn't really done a whole lot since compared to those 2 or 3 years. 

Hot dang, I think we have an answer! Great find @bronze_rules. Although would it not have still been odd to have spoiled the story like that on the cover? 

@Really?, I just assumed this was a commonly know thing, myself included, and I'd just forgotten the answer. I was surprised when I didn't get an instant response with the answer and an insult of some sort. Then I could have sworn it was in 'Comic Creators On X-Men'. Nope. Hmmm. And come to think of it, it's not something I've seen asked before either. 

Does anyone have any ideas on other references that could be consulted? I'd really love to dig deeper on this. Surely I can't be the first person to ask this question? 

Caught me as I was sending a PM, luckily it saved my text. It did tell me I should be in bed at this hour, but well, you can see how that turned out. 

8 minutes ago, Bird said:

I don't think he is in the Ben 10 group, is he?

No, you're right. My bad. 

I hope we get an unknown as Wolverine. That'd be preferable to me. But sadly I feel the MCU is past that. 

8 hours ago, followtheleader said:

Totally agree on Matsuda.  I loved his X-Factor art.  Wonder what that guy is up to now. 

Patrick

Last I heard he'd started the studio with a few other creators (I think Joe Casey might have been one?) that made the children's show Ben 10, which has been a pretty huge thing, running for years. 

I'm just about to start reading the end of DeFalco/Ryan run Fantastic Four, via a mix of single issues and trade paperbacks(oh I'm sorry: Epic Collections). Just gonna be whatever I find first. 

I'll probably just do the leadup issues to 400,then just finish the run out til 414 or 416, whichever it was. 

It's such a shame the book got to this point. I actually enjoyed both creator's work on the book, so I don't know why they had a constant Sword Of Damocles over their whole run. 

On 7/21/2019 at 12:07 PM, Bosco685 said:

It will be interesting as they develop this film when they will start to announce any casting choices.

Are we allowed to post our most-wanted rosters? I'd love to see Xavier, Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Archangel, Colossus, Rogue, Bishop, Wolverine, Cecilia Reyes. Have Reyes have her powers develop while in med class, causing danger and attracting the attention of the movie's bad guys.. She gets isolated and attacked, learning that her shield is not only defensive but offensive, and she sees an actual angel from heaven come down to her. Of course, we know it's just Archangel, but it sets off a massive thing with her. 

Cheers, mate! 

Just crappy stuff like all of X-Treme X-Men, Infinity Inc, and a couple of short failed ongoings of the JSA from the early 90's. They're the ones that spring to mind as the most authentic. 

54 minutes ago, Larryw7 said:

It's trending on Twitter that Daniel Radcliffe is gonna play Wolverine!

 

From the Shire to the Shi'Ar. 

Psst @Bosco685 no hurry or anything mate, but could you please update the title to reflect the release date for any people scrolling through? It'd be nice to catch the attention of anyone scrolling through who enjoyed the live-action movie and wants more MK. 

Also agree with Ray Stevenson on Rome. Hell, that whole show had perfect casting. To me, Dexter's Joker was definitely the Trinity Killer. That's who I immediately think of as his greatest nemesis. That's even coincidentally who he suffered his greatest loss to, who took his Robin, someone who helped ground him. 

It doesn't mean I want him back though. I think season 4 is more powerful standing on its own, although I'm obviously stating this prematurely, and we'll see what they come up with. 

11 hours ago, Coolio McCool said:

Character arcs were probably planned in advance. Banshee was a minor X-man and Sunfire was going to leave sanctimoniously after one issue, so why waste cover space on them?

So why bother with Thunderbird? Well they didn't want to spoil his death. Also notice that Thunderbird is the LEAST featured character on the cover. You have to admit that the best X-Men are featured most prominently, in hind-sight that cover couldn't be any better done.

I REALLY love this answer, but I don't think it can be correct, based on the timeline. I consulted Dave Cockrum's interview in 'Comic Creators On X-Men' and he states he and Len had plotted out GSX 2 (essentially the plot of 94-95, but later statements clarify that the death was either not there or was a different character, it's not clear, although I assume nonexistent). He then states when Len had to drop out and Chris Claremont signed up as the new writer, the idea of doing the series of Giant Sizes was dropped, the regular series was confirmed, and they replotted a bit, adding in the death and deciding on Thunderbird. 

Reasonably all that couldn't have taken place before the production of the GSX1 cover. 

It also makes me think they had no idea at that stage that Banshee would be a minor character. 

6 minutes ago, Amazeron said:

 

You can always purchase Action Comics #1 and Detective Comics #27, get the scissors and tape out, and boom! Your own one of a kind flip book. That’s an arts and craft project you can do in this timeline.

It'll get me some views on YouTube. 

18 hours ago, William-James88 said:

What's the argument for how hurt feelings are worse than rape?

You're right. Terribly phrased on my behalf. Thanks for calling it out. 

I never bothered with Mutant X after Howard Mackie drove X-Factor into the ground. He completely wasted the talents of Jeff Matsuda and just straight up killed the book. Horrible writer. People blame the Image guys as the worst of the 90's, I blame Mackie. 

12 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Flip books are generally used when an issue contains two stories and they want to showcase both (not relegating one to a backup). Action Comics was an anthology title, with more than two stories per issue (as was Detective Comics), so even if the idea for flip books existed then, it wouldn't have made much sense.

Well, most of the biggest (early) Marvel heroes debuted in their own feature stories in anthology titles as well. Now, that might have been because of publishing restrictions rather than the standard way comics were done at the time of the early DCs, but it still happened.

I know, but work with me here. Alternate timeline! 

So, the thread on identifying the earliest known flip book got me thinking, you know. Imagine if Action #1 had been a flip book with one half covering the debut of Superman. Flip it over and voila! The debut of Batman (yeah I'm messing with the time lines here). I wonder how that would have changed the comics world, and it's standard presentation of its fair, and how it's stories are told. Would there be the Marvel method and the Action 1 method? 

 What can you see happening differently if history had gone down this way? 

And finally, if you had this book, which cover would you display? The Action 1 cover we all know and love, or the 'new' cover, that in our timeline went on to be the cover to Detective Comics #27. 

1 hour ago, kav said:

Do you have some links?  All I ever read was he flirted with them.

Besides @Prince Namor's link what I was paraphrasing came from someone in the debacle, allegedly Ellis. 

It should also be noted that the women involved also stressed that nothing illegal was done to them, so there's definitely nothing criminal to pursue, just hurt feelings and personal trauma, which is arguably much worse.