grapeape

My point about the 20 K (TOS 39 sold for $23,000 + just last year.) is that these art works at auction we’re meant to 1) make a little money for the artists 2) create an exciting auction event for collectors At one point after changing hands I believe the Amazing Fantasy 15 asking price was $80,000 from a dealer. No way Kirby was thinking that these pieces were one day going to become desired for that kind of money. The point....Again is whatever they are selling for today privately or at auction it’s imperative potential buyers know that there are questions about the amount of work Kirby actually contributed. Presumptively the seller who bought this recreation late last year for $23k has it up for sale now and last I checked bidding was just under $4 K. Will that person get their money back? Will the ComicLink winning bidder a week from now understand they bought art that is considered by many to be suspect? All sellers must disclose now that there exists questions about the art. These covers originally estimated for a few thousand dollars. Today they potentially could sell at auction or privately for quite a bit more.

This was an assignment, a taxing assignment for a good man who was suffering illness at the time of the creations. I hate that Theakston came out with this without naming names. I will always think of Jack Kirby and Roz Kirby as decent good people. The life they lived reflects that. If Jack had a chance to tell us what happened with these, I have a feeling we would be satisfied. But he died. Roz died. These controversies arose long after that. These pieces of art were never meant to be worth $20K + Hell published work at the time of that auction was still reasonable. There are a handful of living people that could still shed light on the authenticity of the artwork. I believe they could shed light on what contribution if any Jack lent to them.They aren’t talking. Personally recreations are not for me. Reinterpretation of originals is interesting. I admire many artists tackling an old subject with fresh ideas. i appreciate all the opinions. There is no bigger fan of the Kirby’s then ol grape ape. My only point is that today 2020 going forward when these recreations/commissions come to market the seller should include a statement that the possibility exists that assistants were involved with the work.

I thought when I saw that picture I had clicked on the Sandman mixed media art thread.

You’re right Vodou and it was a great question Scott.

I think cash deals will still get done Scott. For hundreds of dollars or less yeah preference maybe non cash. But large ticket items will still draw cash preference. For obvious reasons. 😆

I do not care for G T. Coming out after Jack and Roz were gone to make his claims. As a “friend” to them both he didn’t do them any favors. That being said, the speculation will always be there. Even if you believe Jack did 100% of the work the responsible thing to do before selling is disclose a significant amount of opinions to the contrary. It mitigates the surprise factor when a collector spends their money and puts a piece up proudly on CGC or CAF. The negative comments and inquisition are coming. So long as a collector knows that before buying they can be happy I guess. Like you mentioned Evanier said “people helped him out a little” when Jack was sick. What people? How much help on the art? Is Danzig on the record saying he saw the 72 cover drawn by Jack? We know all the people in Jacks inner circle and all the dealers who bought and sold commissions or recreations. Love to hear from them one way or the other.

This is one of the “controversies” surrounding these works attributed to Jack. Again any collector willing to take the plunge will carry this luggage with the art. Auction houses I believe have a duty to share “disclaimers” and view points that question legitimacy. Then the bidders can make an informed decision. Thank you for sharing ohdannyboy blog

I was also disappointed. I posted this just to give potential bidders something to think about. There are people that own these recreations and are happy. Will the winning bidder this time be happy if they find out after the fact there are concerns about the claim this is “all” Jack?

Well here's Comic Link's description of TOS 39 recreation currently for auction ending 6/2 2020. The description leaves out any mention of the possibility that "assistants" helped Jack complete some of his later recreations. This is Jack Kirby's recreation of one of the most covers of the Silver Age, Tales of Suspense #39 (1963), featuring, of course, the first appearance of Iron Man. Kirby drew this recreation along with some other recreations of his early Marvel covers in 1993-1994. Iron Man is now one of the most famous fictional characters on the planet. The story in Tales of Suspense #39 was drawn by Don Heck, but it was Jack Kirby who drew the first cover and is credited with the character design. This same cover sold at auction on September 9, 2019 for $23,839 listed with ComicConnect. The auction house listed a caveat of sorts concerning the recreation see below. This piece is not free from controversy, as some bloggers and comic historians have speculated that Jack had assistants help him with his work later in life. If he had assistance with this piece is unknown. Regardless, this is an accurate recreation of one of the most significant images of the Silver Age of Marvel Comics. It comes with the original certificate of authenticity from Sotheby's, signed posthumously by Roz Kirby on Jack's behalf. At this point any Jack Kirby Cover Recreations listed for auction should at the very least mention the elephant in the room. The bidders can make up their minds but they should have "all" the information at their disposal.

Gotta get that and have Los Hermanos add the logo/paste ups.

Grateful the artistry doesn’t reveal Frank Langella girth......

That’s so cool Ron. Reminds me of The Sommerset Holmes comics with the Brent Anderson covers and interior art by Al Williamson. I think it’s great you acquired something different. The art is lovely and so cool to add another cover for your collection.

R I P 😢

I’ve seen your collection. You have great examples. The thing about this board is we have members from every level of experience. I feel like I know my stuff really well. Then I talk to guys like Mitch and Glen Gold who have even more experience then I do. Certainly there’s no such thing as an 8mm video or camera phone video of an artist knocking out that 1970 Con sketch. So the most important things to learn: Study art (artists) works, pencil, ink sketch finished. Buy from reputable sources but ask questions and get expert opinion from someone OTHER then the seller.

I’m stuck in 1997 so...

No no I’m not bashing you. I agree with you on your valuation of a legit Bill Everett. I am warning that some of the auction houses do little if any research when they post items for sale.

I believe all the estimates here were given in good faith. I would agree with Subby1938 though that I would expect a higher get on a Bill Everett quality sketch of Submariner. $1,000-$1500 at least. But if the seller drops out I’m here at $702 😂

Live auctioneers sells Jake Kilbys all the time without provenance. I’m sure a Chris Everett Submariner is coming soon.

—— yeah mine too !!

Great point but when you used the word prevarication you lost 90% of the board

HULU......they offer a free trial if you don’t already have it. It was an excellent (sad) documentary that every comic and art fan should watch.

Yeah watch 2017 video Batman and Bill. Bob Kane had taken all the credit for Batman but after watching the documentary you’ll come away stunned.

There might be a set of his finger prints in the FBI data base. Sincerly, “The spirit of Bill Finger” P.S if you find any finger prints on Bob Kane attributed Batman pages they probably aren’t Bob Kane’s.

It’s nice to hear from all you guys in 2020. I remember hanging out at my local comic shop and monthly hearing about G I Joe this and that. I thought who the he’ll cares? My head wrapped around super hero and horror comics. I knew nothing about G I Joe other then he was an action hero action figure that guys liked to collect. I get it now and tip my cap. I love the enthusiasm with which you all are describing for this art and other examples.

I get it 👍 Enjoy