Iconic1s

On 1/2/2024 at 9:20 AM, William-James88 said:

CGC is already offering compensation for the confirmed books. I don't see any worthwhile case for a class action lawsuit against them.

Is it also true that all the “victims” would need to find each other and sue together?  I think that is how a class action works, OR there is enough in it to get a big law firm interested, set up a registry where people can join in, etc.  Again, I’m not an expert on class action lawsuits but I don’t think either of these are likely scenarios.

On 1/1/2024 at 11:17 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Has it been confirmed that the scammer is a major submitter known to CGC?

The possibility was mentioned about 50 pages ago.  This person’s wife’s FB page has some posts (coincidentally) from people whose names are derivatives of some of the Seller accounts used in the scam (Bree, Zane Glor).  The associations seem too unlikely to dismiss. CGC Mike asked for the info if that lends any credence.

When considering what he was able to pull off, it makes enough sense to me to think this is what happened.  Of course the jury is still out.

On 1/1/2024 at 10:15 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Cgc does not just print labels, or their not supposed to.

I've sent for reholder. @Iconic1s has too but idk how badly his case was damaged.

I dropped mine in the garage, it barely fit together. Cgc looked at the book!

The after looking at the book and assessing that condition looked at the label, said close enough and REHOLDERed.

At no point during that was I thinking I need to break out a sonic weld and glue

 

At this point I’m not reholdering another book.  The trust is broken as far as I’m concerned.

I don’t sell books… I have always just wanted my books in new holders so they would look better in my registry sets.

Now that everyone is screaming to regrade all reholders (something that from my POV I absolutely disagree with) I’m not about to be the guy that suffers because this dude took advantage of the system to profit.  I have one 9.9 in particular that would look sweet in a new holder but now I can never enjoy it in a new holder because all of a sudden CGC “might” want to start looking at books closer, and it would be devastating for that book to be sent back to me as a 9.8, grading being as subjective as it is.

I really hope this dude and all of his accomplices get serious jail time.

On 12/30/2023 at 11:57 PM, Steven Valdez said:

If that does happen -- a way to determine if cases have been compromised -- that really is the only thing that could salvage the whole mess.

I wonder if there is a way to infuse the case with something that, if exposed to extreme heat (such as from a heat gun) or certain chemicals, that the plastic would permanently discolor?

On 12/30/2023 at 9:26 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Fixed the typos, if you take a breath to revisit

 Nah 

On 12/30/2023 at 9:03 PM, Lightning55 said:

Maybe you could translate...

I said “sorta” 

On 12/30/2023 at 8:46 PM, Lightning55 said:

Anybody else "get it"???

I sorta got it 

On 12/30/2023 at 7:21 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I would bet you will be seeing a video response from them sometime early in the new year.

Hopefully with the perp in handcuffs 

On 12/30/2023 at 6:46 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

They don't need a Brand New slab (slight enhancement sure), they more so  just need a CGC employee to check and open the book at Reholdering/ME to actually make sure it is the same book.  You know make sure the book actually has a MVS or Mark Jewelers Insert in there.

You can fix this issue in 5 minutes with just a pair of working eyes and someone who can follow basic protocals.

 

Agreed.

If they rush a new slab to market as a result of this it will be like admitting the slab was the problem, rather than the “mastermind” that is behind the scam.

You can either say that you had people pay for 10,000,000 easily comprisable slabs and you have no idea how many people exploited this, OR you narrow it down to one perpetrator that really went out of their way to commit fraud against you.

This dude needs to eventually be named and CGC needs to get their lawyers and law enforcement to take every bit of freedom and financial security that they are capable of away from this guy and his co-conspirators.

You don’t get to bring this type embarrassment and brand damage to a half a billion dollar company with “guaranty” in their name and think you are going to enjoy the same quality of life you previously had.

Again, my thoughts… if CGC rushes a new slab design to market they are admitting they facilitated the problem. I think they need to go after these criminals first and then, if they think a new slab design is warranted, then treat that as a (almost) separate issue to instill confidence back AFTER all these folks are rotting in prison.

On 12/30/2023 at 1:04 PM, drotto said:

 

In theory CGC knows the originally submitter for every book ever graded. Granted, that garentees nothing once that book has left that original persons hands, if it was sold through non tracked channels.

I guess what I meant was that their subs are significant enough (or their clout is such) that when received, their subs get special attention… moved faster or whatever.

On 12/30/2023 at 12:47 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

What defines a “major submitter”?

I’m guessing someone that when their books are received by CGC, that they know who they belong to.

Or, someone known throughout the hobby 

On 12/30/2023 at 12:37 PM, Comics said:

I have been away since page 100, but wonder if anyone saw this? https://www.instagram.com/p/CvxqEyZJGxn/

Patch replaced in UD Cup rookie card...

I honestly don’t understand what use the authentic patch is once it’s removed though.  How would that even be authenticated at that point?

On 12/30/2023 at 8:38 AM, sledgehammer said:

It took some time, but I finally spotted what is in my mind, an absolute connection between a major submitter and the two names that I believe are involved with the various ebay seller IDs.

Another boardie and I have been bouncing things back and forth for many days.  @Heronext

I've made a video and took photos, of the wife of this submitter's facebook page. Just in case it is made private later.

That facebook page shows a comment from someone named Bree.

The search that I made much earlier for that name, shows someone that has lived in 3 cities, all relevant to this, including Kew Gardens NY

That search shows one of the people connected to that name, as having a name that contains the letters ZANE, which is part of the ebay ID Zaneglor..

An online search of that man, shows a woman in his family, with a name that contains GLOR.  In AZ. He also lived in Kew Gardens.

An online google search of his name, shows at one point, a comment made on facebook by his name, and right next to it, shows a comment by that same BREE name.

On the submitter's wife's facebook page, a friend of hers and her submitter husband, that BREE name, says "thanks for inviting us!"

I'm not going to call out that major submitter here, and ask for a response. It's completely feasible that he is not involved

I don't know if this info would be helpful to CGC, or not. I think it would be appropriate to ask for clarification on this, from the submitter.

@CGC Mike

 

Whoa!!  Man, if there is a connection to a major submitter that’s just crazy!  This might explain some of the weird grade dates, etc. and what looks like potential hookups.

If true, this would probably be the best outcome… gives CGC someone to focus on, and also potentially contains the damage to this one guy (with his accomplices) running the scam.

This was already interesting but this kicks up the intrigue a couple notches… until now I imagined the loser toiling away in his basement/garage alone breaking into slabs… now if it’s an actual known big-time submitter pumping books back through CGC and then using people close to him to sell the books then that’s bonkers!

This guy is the lowest of the lows if true (even lower than we already thought)!!  He scams a company that trusted him (a normal submitter wouldn’t have been given the leeway a big one was, maybe) and then pulled people close to him in his life into his greed and turned them into criminals too!  Not to mention betraying every single person that bought a scammed book, and casting doubt over an entire hobby!  Crazy stuff if true!!

On 12/29/2023 at 8:30 AM, agamoto said:

This is purely hypothetical, but from my observation, here's what that seam around the sides SHOULD look like with an unmolested case. 

See those blue/purple lines that run down the sides? 

This is what our perps cases look like. 

 

Notice anything funny about those magic blue lines about 1.5" north of the bottom corners or so? 

The strange thing is, these are supposed to be the imaged books AFTER they've been reholdered, Hmmm.

Am I taking crazy pills?

 

 

Those fractures have become pretty common lately on books I’ve submitted and also anything I bought that was recently slabbed.  First time I encountered them I had 7 of 14 reholders come back with them. I sent them back for ME and about half came back with them again.  I’ve since just started ignoring them.  My theory from close examination is maybe too much pressure during the encapsulation phase. 

On 12/28/2023 at 8:31 PM, Nick Furious said:

 

Just nice to see you got to the end 

This is 100% on CGC and they know it!

Someone mentioned that all CGC received was the grading fee and not the premium paid for books they had “graded.”  Maybe so, but there is a problem with that… if they truly sat back and were impartially grading our books, and then letting us do what we/the market does with them that may be okay.  But, big BUT, hardly a day goes by where they are not also meddling in the market; whether it’s through promotions, linking up with auction houses, bragging about how one of the books they graded set a new record, or literally giving away books they graded (the list goes on!), they are knee deep in market manipulation and driving demand/premium prices for their product… not just by having the best product mind you but testifying to their own greatness and proclaiming themselves as “most trusted”   .

CGC IS NOT THE VICTIM HERE!  It was their negligence that opened the window of opportunity for this scam for YEARS!  Their negligence caused this!  Theirs ONLY!  We deserved better, period!

Everybody that bought a scam book and paid that premium did so because they believed in CGC.  It was in a CGC holder with an assigned grade.  Sure, maybe it looked like a “gift grade” but man, if CGC gave it that grade, oh well it must be legit right  .  Meanwhile their product and processes have been so bad for who knows how long (they know know how long) that they, who proclaim themselves “most trusted” get one pulled over on them again and again and again for years by a guy whose grammar is terrible, while their customers blindly trust them and end up suffering the real hardship by buying these books because of the trust in the brand.

Funny, look through old press releases for the current holder and it was supposedly perfected over three years… yet a guy on youtube defeats it in about 5 minutes.  Let that sink in, that’s how much they really care about this.  They are in CYA mode now cause this is ALL on them.  Seems to me it’s time to put a business person in charge.

On 12/28/2023 at 1:12 PM, BrashL said:

I mean he used a $50 dollar heat gun and some plastic solvent, that’s basically garage supplies. Nothing about what he showed is hard or expensive. 

And he wasn’t even trying that hard. He admitted that he would use masking tape next time, could buff it out, and a few other things for it to turn out better.

This was his first attempt and it went pretty well!

On 12/27/2023 at 8:53 PM, WestcoastDAVEngers said:

I mentioned it on the live stream, mostly because of the press release wording and timing of them announcing the scans - 

"Imaging all comics and magazines after encapsulation and making them available online is the latest way that CGC is adding value, safety and transparency to the pop culture collectibles market. Now, when collectors enter a collectible’s CGC certification number to confirm its description and grade in the CGC database, they will also be able to reference an image of the collectible. This will help collectors verify that their CGC holder is genuine and has not been tampered with."

This could mean that the scammer only used the reholder process to update scans since last summer… could have (maybe) been tampering with the holders and swapping inner wells and resealing (per that youtube video earlier today) long before that.  The scans may have been a step in the right direction to prevent him/this scam but it seems the guy may have outmaneuvered the half a billion dollar company yet again!

They really need to keep all historical scans of the book with the cert # in the census.

This is all such a bummer!

On 12/27/2023 at 5:44 PM, BrashL said:

Serious question: Why do you feel like you should get to control what people hear? Why not let them consume the information and decide from themselves, even if it’s different than what you think. Wouldn’t you rather some feathers get ruffled than someone in the group buy a switched slab when it could have been prevented?

This deserved an actual “THANK YOU!”

On 12/27/2023 at 4:46 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 12/27/2023 at 10:49 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

yeah but what's Matt going to do about it right now?

Stickers!

He’ll let you know anywhere between six months and three years from now…

“Our thorough development process included six months to solve the dilemma of securing the book without the inner well, so the creative design solution was a real breakthrough”, said Nelson. (Note: we all know what happened with this idea!  Inner well came back.)

“book submissions beginning the 4th of April, 2016. Managing to incorporate the most advanced archival materials, the redesigned, patent-pending holder improves upon CGC’s original holder with a sturdier construction and new crystal-clear display that offers superior optical clarity. Research and development of the second generation holder, which spanned over three years, was orchestrated by Matt Nelson.”

CGC's Director of Operations Harshen Patel recently said, “This new holder is a quantum leap forward and redefines the standards for preservation and display. The clarity we achieved showcases comics on a level that will drastically change the way collectors view CGC encapsulation”.