heartened

5 hours ago, pestonaccio said:

As some of you might known, I have been helping, in the last years, fellow collectors buying/selling pages from the sandman, so I know some of the prices from private sales.

I think that the range 10/20k and 20/30k is too big, maybe we should split them in 10/15k, 15/20k etc.

Let's start for Bachalo's death: I can say that it's pretty hard to reach 10k. Maybe the best pages can reach 12k, but 20k? Maybe one or two from the first mini and one from the second (Titles or splashes). So I think we have to lower the values (and I am a proud owner of one wonderful page).

Kelley Jones 10/20k. No way you can get an A page from his issues for less than 15/17k. I would buy any page A page for 10k. If it's a top moment from season of mists or a dream of a thousand cats, I'd say we are over 20k.

Thompson 10/20k? Too much even if it's dream destruction and delirium. Normal A page is around 15k. Can't see and Thompson page reaching 20k.

Then there is Vess: midsummers dream is easily 20/30k. Easily. The tempest 10/20k.

PC Russell on Ramadan: easily 20k/30k.

Hempel, McManus, Bachalo, Zulli all over 10k. Depending on the moment of the story they can go up in value.

 

To make a long story short, there is no way you can get a nice Sandman story for less than 10k, maybe 15k . They are hard to find and very expensive (and I don't think it depends on the new netflix show). 

 

Hope this helps and, of course,  I am open to discussion.

 

Ps: I have re-read this post and it's very confused, don't know if it's because English is not my mother tongue or because the situation of Sanan art is very complex and always evolving.

Ciao,

Luca

 

 

 

Hi Luca,

Thanks for the analysis!  I have a Bachalo Death A-level page that I've been offered over 10K, so I can confirm that value on the market too.  I didn't sell.  Also, I want to clarify that the range doesn't mean the every artist/title in that bracket starts at the bottom of the range and goes up to the top of the range; rather it means that the A page will on average fall somewhere in that range.  It may be toward the bottom or toward the top, but over time as it escalates (or goes down), it may go to the next tier or drop a tier.  These ranges are meant to be guides.  Collectors and sellers are still going to have to do some research on where to price/value their page, based on what actually makes an A level page for that artist on that title : is it the inker, the main character on the page, storyline, content on that page, villain present, or other factors.  So, this list basically is just to get people in the ballpark, which in and of itself is quite helpful but certainly not everything!

1 minute ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

If anyone is selling an A level Paul Smith page for 5-10k let me know. I will take it.. maybe multiple! Thanks

Sounds like that's a tie breaker!  I feel the same.  Will update.

5 minutes ago, TMNT said:

It's actually a good point. While the assumption is that he made those additional 10 around 2012 sounds like its possible he actually did so earlier. And Kevin definitely sold Gobbledygook sets himself around that time frame and beyond. I'm not saying Kevin would intentionally do such a thing (everyone who has met the guy can tell you how genuinely nice is and how much he loves his fans) but it's also true he has people sell his items for him. Is it possible something could have been mixed up at some point, especially with how close in appearance the printings appear to be...? 

Of all people, Kevin knows the storied history of counterfeits of GG and TMNT 1 and seems a bit dangerous for he himself to run off another 10 that are so identical that could confuse uninformed buyers. If these were to always be a legit "personal use" set then sure, no problem. But clearly at least one set is out there. And honestly, if you yourself were to try pass these off as 1st prints and sell them, I bet you'd be able to without much issue. Which is kinda scary IMO

Agree.  Most legit people would update the date somewhere on the second printing to avoid all confusion, or label them as 2nd printing.  Even if you didn't want to mess up the original art, you could have easily used an overlay to print "2nd printing" on them and then taken the overlay off.  Chuck mentions some subtle differences, but truth be told it would have been easy and more legitimate (and above suspicion) to make it overtly obvious.  I don't know Kevin Eastman, and it sounds like he is wonderful man who wouldn't want to jeopardize the market or his reputation, so why not make it obvious?

Just now, jjonahjameson11 said:

The Paul Smith UXM pages are indeed on the list at the $5-10K level, but I think that’s based on outdated information.  I don’t think an A level page has sold for several years, and given the very high demand paired with low availability, I can’t see an A level page going for less than $10K now.  It really should be bumped up to the next price level.

Had it there and Gene mentioned maybe lower, on the basis of few/no sales recently.  Anyone else want to chime in?  I would favor 10-20K too although at the low end of that range I would think.  This is also based on the fact that they have to be more than Silvestri, Portacio, etc. but probably less than Lee, Cockrum, etc.  Thoughts?

Sounds a little dangerous for owners of the original printing.  How do we know that none of the second printings were sold as first printings?  The quality of these "prelim" "books" was so poor that they are much easier to counterfeit I would think.  That always made me hesitant about why these books would be anywhere near the value of TMNT #1 in the overstreet listing and in public/private sales.  That's why I never really considered them the first appearances and wonder about their true value.

5 minutes ago, Latverian Tourism Board said:

I’m getting that sense. 😁 Thank you for doing this, it really is very helpful. 

You're welcome!  Hopefully it brings some semblance of sense to the OA universe

5 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

$60K

For Hulk 5 and 6, I assume?  How about for the TTA run?

17 hours ago, Latverian Tourism Board said:

Also, instead of alphabetical, would it maybe be more helpful to slot them into their value order within each price range? 

Uh, this is proving hard enough LOL

Question: Where should we put Ditko Hulk pages?  Several have sold over the years.  You can see where we put the Kirby issue pages above.  More or less?

Just updated the list for today including all the information so far.  Let's hear more discussion, criticism, skepticism, additions, edits, and other information.  Happy New Year everyone!

6 hours ago, J.Sid said:

Good idea to pin this thread.

List needs TONS of refinement in my opinion.... which brings up the question: Whose input requests get published in the absence of data points? 

(I have some Eduardo Risso100 Bullets pages I was thinking about selling, and I really think they should be in the $3-5k category. I can cite numerous private sales to corroborate  )

This list is one of consensus, like wikipedia.  If people have problem with the list and values, we should hash them out here and a consensus should develop over time.  This is not what I think the values are, this is what WE think the values are.  Call me out if something seems wrong, or I didn't get the consensus right.  It will only be a good guide as the input we get. That's also the only way it will work on art that hasn't seen enough or many public sales (private sales count if others find it believable and something they would pay themselves).  So, I encourage everyone to question anything that seems high or low and let others then chime in.  Then I move it up or down, or keep it where it is based on the responses.

9 hours ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

Where are Paul Smith X-men pages now?

They are on the list.

8 hours ago, Lobstrosity said:

Just reiterating from the previous thread:

 

McFarlane/Spawn pages probably shouldn't be included in the $3-5k category, unless it's referring to his inks? (this may be the case, but I was under the impression this was mostly a pencillers list). McFarlane doesn't have any penciled Spawn pages in the marketplace, but there are a lot of Capullo penciled pages with McFarlane inks.

And are the Capullo/McF pages the ones that have hit the 3-5K mark?  If so, I will amend.

1 hour ago, Noob19 said:

Does is matter that Capullo himself prices his better Batman panel pages in the next (higher) bracket? Was just perusing his site...

My sense here is we often have to see what the secondary market does.  Sometimes it goes up, sometimes down.

1 hour ago, comiconxion said:

I can vouch for the fact that I've sold "nicer" Zeck pages from Secret Wars for over $5k.  The pages from #8 and ones with Black Spidey on them command a bit of a premium.  It's also true that there aren't too many "A" level loose pages that are loose - many of the loose pages have stats on them or might be from some of the ghost inkers like Art Nichols.  Only Zeck pages from issues #6, 7, 8, 9, 11 & 12 are out there in the wild.  Some of the better individual pages are from the ones that aren't broken up (#1, 2, 3 & 10) so the market hasn't really been tested on them.   Because there are few "great" pages, that's why there's a premium attached to them.

It's rare to see a Zeck Cap panel page reach the $5k range, but they are starting to approach that.  "A" level Zeck Punisher Limited Series pages are even rarer in the wild as #1 & #2 are still complete.  An "A" level page from Punisher #3 hasn't surfaced yet and there's really only one "A" level page from #4 that's changed hands in recent years.  That was in the $20-30k range so that those should probably be bumped up.  You might be able to get an "A" level page from Return to Big Nothing for $5-10k.  

Also, other Marvel #1 pages (in addition to X-Men #1) are selling for over $100k.  A nice Everett Daredevil #1 page sold over $125k a couple years ago and I'd imagine nice Avengers #1 pages are in that range although I haven't seen one sell recently.  But, asking prices on them have been north of that.   

BWS Weapon X pages have been on the rise as of late... seems that they may now be in that $60k+ range.  

 

 

Thanks buddy.  Nice comments.  Was waiting for people to mention DD 1 and Avengers 1.  It's hard to know where to put them without firm data, but will update the list with them and see what people think.  Your data on Zeck as usual is very helpful.  The BWS X pages only a few albeit stellar prices, I put it in the 40K plus until it shows reproducibility.

2 hours ago, Bill C said:

Not sure about Flash 2up in the 5-10K range for A level panel pages, based on known/public auction results (unless my memory is fading, which is possible). I know an A level content battle page from 153 did sell in that range on HA in the last few years IIRC, but that's the only example I can think of off the top of my head.

Several pages sold in the last HA for very cheap, although not A level (and possibly damaged?). There are I think 9 SA Cinfa Flash 2up pages in the current HA, a couple being A level content, so we'll see more data points in a couple weeks.

Had it lower but someone suggested moving it up. Like a wiki page it’ll eventually be correct as we have more eyes commenting. Agree we might as well wait for those hammers and then adjust as needed. 

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

I just wanted to throw out the point that great artists are still great artists. So for those who want to find great art, but not pay these prices, yet need guidance, you can always look what they did on other books, preferably around the same period. 

This is so true. For example people only wanted Byrne X-men for a while but now everything else he did has gone up. It was all good!  Just some runs more popular with higher demand. That’s what these lists over time show us. 

Everyone, I went ahead and started a Part 2 thread on this topic with the new updated list.  This way we can leave this thread and I can update the other newer thread over time while keeping the updated valuations pinned to the first post forever.  That way it's easy to see what the new consensus is. 

Please go over there and continue discussing on that thread.

We should ALL thank Lago32 for this idea in 2014!

1 hour ago, alxjhnsn said:

For what it's worth, in my Pricing Comic Art - Update thread, I keep the latest information in the first post since it can be edited. That makes the latest information easy to find. I think put explanatory information in a post at the bottom of the thread. You might consider doing the same.

DONE: Started a new thread.

9 minutes ago, Varanis said:

I can vouch for Tradd Moore SSB at 10-20k, but there are no public comps. Not sure if it's better to wait for public comps (and a little time) before saying it's definitely 10-20k.

We can probably have Felix comment if he shows up.... since he sold a bunch of the pages and probably knows the market.

1 minute ago, stinkininkin said:

Dang it Hari! I knew you were gonna ask me that! Outside my wheelhouse. I'll try and contribute to some other categories that I'm better versed. That said, how much of a premium would be placed on Romita inks on Kane Spiderman versus everyone else? Might be a tier changer. Any other inker designations we should focus on? Sinnott over Kirby (probably not a vast pricing difference). Wood inked Avengers pages? Probably WOULD be a difference maker. Klaus Janson? Janson over our pal Sal Buscema on Defenders for example would inspire me to pay significantly more (if I collected this material) than otherwise. 

Sorry I'm not coming up with numbers for you yet. Will think some more.

Anyone with expertise in a particular market category, please add your knowledge and opinion where applicable!

I thought about the inker aspect, but again would be inherent in what makes it an A panel page.  On some runs, a less important inker would drop it to a B page.  Kirby Sinnott FF is an A page, but the content might push it to A+.  Without Sinnott, most pages would struggle to be an A page.  At least that's how I'm interpreting the role of the inker.  As for Kane, I'm not personally sure it matters much anymore.  He has evolved as a great ASM artist on his own, with or without Romita Sr IMO.

4 hours ago, dem1138 said:

Minor add that pages with the hero and a main villian command a premium and it they are battling, they command a premium above that.  I think the higher value pages could certainly be parsed out where a Ditko ASM page with Spidey on the page is >100 but if a villian is on it with Spidey its >125 and if they are battling its >150.

Hey Dave.  I think this is all inherent to what an A panel page is, no?  One would assume an A page has Spidey on it.  Probably an A+ page is the one that's a battle page between Spidey and a major villain.  We try to imply content based on the rating otherwise we will be here all day on every single artist/title.

18 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Sienkiewicz Moon Knight or New Mutants Pages?

What range would you suggest?

3 hours ago, Grant Turner said:

What about Don Heck Avengers/Tales of Suspense art?

Please suggest/support price ranges.  What are your thoughts?