mjoeyoung

There is absolutely nothing I disagree with here! Yours (and I hope mine) is the mindset of a collector. I think there are a lot of people still spending big bucks on comics that don't care much, if at all about the history. These people are not like us. All they care about is the investment potential of these books. To them, rarer books are better investments, end stop. Here is the description of the 9.8 Eternals #1 30 Cent Price Variant: Created by the great Jack Kirby, the artistic father of the Marvel Universe, the Eternals are a superhuman race created by the Celestials. The offered example for the much rarer 30 Cent Price Variant is pristine and has been graded Near Mint/Mint 9.8, making it the highest graded and 1 of only 4 examples of this Variant ever assigned the top grade by CGC. Adding to its desirability, the pristine condition is further enhanced by newsstand-fresh White Pages. Consider that there are 642 CGC 9.8s (Universal and Signature Series) for the regular (25-Cent) edition, and it drives how how incredibly rare these 30-Cent Price Variants of Eternals #1 really are. This description mentions nothing about the interesting history of price variants. The hook is that they are rare, RARE, RARE! If you like 9.8s, these 9.8s are double-plus-good! Now it IS possible that more people have developed a genuine appreciation for this specific price variant and that is reason why they bid almost $15K for a book that last sold for $7500 in 2020, but I'm a bit too cynical for that.

I think you missed the part where I was agreeing with you. The point is that if they HAD done it that way, there would be no doubt about the comic origin. This must have been a contentious thread before I showed up. Where I disagree, is that I think your terminology implies that the comic is foreign made. They are not UK, Canadian and Australian Price Variants. They are United States Price Variants. The price is just in another currency. If you use language such as UK Edition and UK Price Variant you are defining Edition and Price Variant by UK. If a UK Edition is produced in the UK, then it would follow that a UK Price Variant would be a book that is ALSO produced in the UK, but with a different price. Price variants are defined by a price, not a location. 30 cent price variants are not called Baltimore, San Antonio, San Jose, Test Market 4, etc. Price Variants. My summary (which I just came up with) looks something like this: Marvel Price Variants 30 Cent Price Variants 35 Cent Price Variants $2.29 Price Variants $2.49 Price Variants Currency Price Variants Pound Sterling Price Variant Australian Dollar Price Variant Canadian Dollar Price Variant At least to me, this is a more precise way of presenting price variants, which I think would lead to less confusion. Marvel produced 30 cent price variants to test a new pricing strategy for distribution in certain markets and also produced Australian dollar price variants for distribution in Australia.

I cannot help myself and would like to add my own hypothetical. What if instead of printing an alternate cover with pence pricing, they had placed a pence sticker overtop the U.S. price? It would seem that the pence price cover was used to facilitate sales in a foreign country. If the currency denomination is truly the only difference then I would have to agree that they are similar to the other U.S. price variants. Besides the price printed on the cover, the only foreign thing about them is where they were sold. It might be better just to define these as Currency Price Variants, and group them with all the price variants. Calling them UK Price Variants is too similar to calling them UK Editions, and naturally leads to confusion. If the 30/35 cent price variants are not defined by the test markets in which they were distributed, then neither should these. A more detailed descriptor would be something like $1.35 Canadian Dollar Price Variant; the price coming before the named currency. That's my

There needs to be an "interesting" reaction emoji , would be perfect for my feelings about this post.

You are going to need to wait until she has a canceled streaming show. That is what really drives up the value!

I guess I was not clear enough in what I was trying to say. The idea was that a price variant 9.8 can be seen as an extra special 9.8 because it is more rare, a subset of a subset. Just like double covers, new stand copies, Mark Jewelers inserts, etc. create special versions of what are essentially the same book. The only difference is that these were created by accident or for certain practical reasons (as you said) that have nothing to do with an intentional manufactured scarcity like variant covers. The end effect is the same though: they are rarer than a regular copy. My hypothesis was that somebody who may be coming from baseball card collecting, where 1/1 and 1/10 cards from the last decade can sell for millions of dollars, may see the price variants as THE most desirable copy of the book due to this scarcity. They see that there are 639 Eternals #1 9.8s and only four 9.8s of the price variants, and with a mindset that rarer is BETTER, spend big bucks on the variant. It is the difference between a collector who understands why something may be valuable (as you describe), and a speculator that only cares about the perceived value (variant is a variant). Thanks for the public dressing down I do live in The ABQ, one of the 30 cent test market cities.

Last sale was for $574 in 2017. That is like 3 lifetimes ago.

Black Cat #50 in 8.5 for $35K+, last sales for ~$15K in 2020 and $27K+ in Nov 2022. To the MOON! Promise Collection CLASSIC COMICS #32 in 8.5 sold for $2101, book last sold for $1980 in Feb 2022. $121 profit? With fees, this has to be a loss for the seller?

I was just going to comment on the Cap #23 9.4 going for $25K when the last sale was $31K in 2016 when I saw your post.

Good question. I wonder if CGC has a vison plan? I think someone forgot to tell these bidders that the Eternals movie bombed. Regular 9.8 90 Day Average is $658, low sale of $520, high of $950 (last sale). Last 9.8 30 Cent sale was $7500 in 2020. Not really sure how we get from there to ~$15K with "no reserve met" unless there was a really high undocumented sale. To me, this looks like "new to the hobby, investor, speculator" bidding. If you look at this list of most expensive sports cards there are many examples of manufactured or artificial scarcity cards selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Somehow, baseball card manufacturers convinced collectors that a card manufactured recently has a great value simply because they only manufactured a limited number of them. The same mentality drives the value of variants like Ultimate Fallout #4 (last 9.8 sale $33.6K, regular 9.8 $1800). High grade price variants are an extension of this theme. They seem tailor made for some influencer to discuss how they are undervalued and the next "big thing." The high value multiples of 9.8s and other "highest graded" books seems to show that some parts of the market have become commoditized. I don't think anybody is paying $15K for this Eternals book because they love the Celestials. If prices continue to soften in lesser grades will there be a collapse to a more reasonable multiple? There is a lot of danger when people are buying collectibles because they "think" the item is "valuable" versus buying them for the reason they became valuable in the first place.

Sorry! I thought we were just having a little fun here. I guess my sarcasm, and devil's advocating wasn't coming through. Personally, I don't think those books look like what I "think" a 9.2 or 9.4 should look like. I would not think that the corner crunch would be allowed on a 9.4, but, according to the The Official CGC Guide to Grading Comics that I just received in the mail, a book with a corner crunch can get a grade up to 9.6! Again, according to the guide, a one inch crease on the front cover would drop a book down to a maximum of 8.0, but the crease on the 9.2 is only about 3/8 inch. I would still think they are overgraded, but I'm a bit less sure than before I flipped through the guide.

I don't have to think it, CGC HAS to think it, and enough people need to have "confidence in the grading provided by CGC, and ... confiden(ce) in the incremental grading differences." (Microchip) I guess you could purchase those books and send them back to CGC and demand lower grades.

I see them, but 9.2s and 9.4s have to have SOME defects, or else they would be 9.6s and 9.8s. Both of those books appear to have zero defects on the back cover, and probably no interior defects, so all the defects are on the front cover. If you zoom the images to approximate comic size, they do appear pretty small. I would not be surprised if these books had been pressed, leaving the "look" of bad defects, but structurally they would be "okay." Is a slight color breaking bend not as severe of a defect if it doesn't bend anymore? I think there is a growing schism between current grading (which is still about the number and severity of defects) and how people are buying encapsulated books (the look of the front cover is becoming most important). It appears that more and more people are displaying their books, which would put an emphasis on front cover. The fact that there may be "ugly" graded books which are graded correctly is a failure of the grading system to evolve with the times. Maybe we could add 9.1s,. 9.3s, 9.5s, and 9.7s for books that are technically the higher grade, but are ugly.

How exactly are these overgraded? They seem to have less defects than your average 9.0 and more than a 9.6. The mis-cut is definitely "ugly" but I don't think it affects these grades. It does illustrate the problem with the current grading system though. The grading notes state that the 9.2 has "light bends to cover and light spine stress lines to cover" and that the 9.4 has "very light spine stress lines to cover and very small crunch left bottom of whole book." I guess a 9.6 has very, very small defects. How many verys equal one negligible?

I gotcha now. There are definitely some books that are going to equal or exceed last sale. In the past, the "last moment" bidding has been insane on Comic Link. I "feel" like that has moderated some in the last few auctions. It "seems" like there has been higher than normal bidding earlier, with less of the "doubling of price in the last 10 seconds" outcomes. Gonna be one to watch, I'm with THE_BEYONDER on this one.

I'm not following this logic. If books SELL for LESS than previous sales the prices are EASING. There are a lot of books where the bidding is over $3K simply because there are a lot of high grade keys in this auction. Most still have a long way to go to match their last sale. A sample: SPECIAL MARVEL EDITION #15, 9.8 currently at $3100, last sale $7800. Adventure Comics #247, 6.0 currently at $3K, last sale $7800 Submariner #1, 9.8 currently at $5350, last sale $20K WEREWOLF BY NIGHT #32, 9.6 currently at $4830, last sale $9600 Iron Fist #14, 9.8 currently at $3800, last sale $5520 Marvel Spotlight #5, 9.2 currently at $3600 ,last sale $9K TOMB OF DRACULA #10, 9.8 currently at $7099, last sale $33,600. Fantastic Four #48, 9.8 currently at $49K, last sale $81K I prefer to have my eggs hatched before I count them.

The auction listing so far are heavy with books already in the $3k+ range. No ease in sight. Usually you need to wait until the end of the auction to see what the final prices are before you can judge.

The most submitted CGC comic is Amazing Spider-Man #300 (1988) and the most submitted PSA card is Upper Deck Ken Griffey, Jr (1989). 0.03% CGC 9.9 for ASM #300 <--------> no equivalent for PSA 5% CGC 9.8 for ASM #300 <--------> 4% PSA 10 for 1989 UD Griffey, Jr. 15% CGC 9.6 for ASM #300 <--------> 30% PSA 9 for 1989 UD Griffey, Jr. 17% CGC 9.4 for ASM #300 <--------> still on the 30% PSA 9 for 1989 UD Griffey, Jr. 35% CGC 8.5, CGC 9.0, and CGC 9.2 combined for ASM #300 <--------> 40% PSA 8 for 1989 UD Griffey, Jr. Interesting. So we get rid of 9.8, 9.9 and 10 (I'm sure if we look hard enough we can find some flaws on those 10s) and make 9.8 the new 10. 9.6 and 9.4 become the new 9.5. 9.0 and 9.2 become the new 9.0. My point about comparing a 9.6 to a PSA 7 was the amount of flaws allowed. According to PSA, a 7 can only show only slight surface wear upon close inspection. So part of the definition of 8s and up is that they have no surface wear. A 9.6 or 9.8 can have a multitude of possible flaws, they just need to be smaller than in lower grades. Imagine if part of the definition of a 9.6 was that it could not have any spine ticks, or it HAD to have 4 sharp corners, or it had to have a perfect wrap, or pure whites on the covers of books like Tales of Suspense #57 and Giant Size X-Men #1. It would take some of the judgement out of the grading process.

What you are describing is a more rigorous grading process. That makes it less art and more science. It also makes the results more reproducible. The fact that they use a loupe to inspect the cards is a good thing. With comic book grading there are so many allowable defects and discernible flaws in high grade books that there is too much room for interpretation. In reality, a CGC 9.6 is more equivalent to a baseball card PSA 7. The problem is trying to shoehorn the old grading system into an updated system that allows for very high, near perfect grades. Old school grading was almost all qualitative. It was a given that all books had defects, but the books looked better and better as the grade increased. The grading system ended at a point where all the defects were relatively minor. The new grading system starts off with the premise that you can somehow quantify the remaining defects to allow for incrementally higher grades above the old school system in a definitive way. However, the grading scale uses qualitative wording to define the tiers from 9.2 to 9.8. What is the difference between "some" wear and "minor" wear? What is the definition of "negligible" or "several"? I don't have a copy of the new guide, so maybe they address this ambiguity. The grading system needs to be reworked to be more rigorous First thing is to get rid of the 1.8 grade. Good minus is 1.5 and then you have Fair at 1.0 and Poor at 0.5. There is really no need for an incremental grade here. At the high end you have to reduce it from 9.0, 9.2, 9.4, 9.6, 9.8, 9.9 and 10 to 9.0, 9.5 and 10. There is not enough of a real difference to allow for 6 grades. CGC defines all of the grades from 9.0 to 9.6 as "a very well-preserved collectible." I agree, so they all get the grade of 9.0. A 9.5 would be be defined by some strict number of total defects allowed. A definition that would use precise quantitative language. Something like "2 total front cover defects are allowed, which may include no more than 2 non color breaking spine ticks no greater than 1/4" in length, 1 bindery tear no greater than 1/8", a vertical miswrap no greater than 1/8", etc., 3 total back cover defects are allowed, etc. and 5 total interior defects are allowed, etc., etc." If you eclipse any of these numbers, the book gets a 9.0. Less art, more science. Of course, it could be that I'm just too cynical to trust in the current system. Or maybe I spend too much time in threads like this or this.

High grade two dimensional collectibles like baseball cards are relatively easy to grade. I think most people could look at different grades of baseball cards and objectively determine which cards are higher grades. Grading high grade comic books is much more complicated, and subjective. Just looking at your example, I prefer the more complete pricing circle, the shade of blue in the background, the staple placement and the near perfect wrap of the 9.2. None of those are factors in determining the difference between a 9.2 and 9.6. Books with white covers can be pretty yellow and still get 9.8s (OMAC #1). 9.8s have been seen in the wild with page quality as low as Tan to Cream. If that was the sole highest copy should it be worth a high multiple over a 9.6 with white pages? What about a comic with manufacturing defects like bindery tears and back cover transfers stains vs. a comic that has only a couple of spine ticks? The point is that when you get up to these grades the defects are so minor and the preferences so personal, that there is NO OBJECTIVE STANDARD. This book is a 9.8 and that book is a 9.6 solely because CGC has decreed it. You are paying a premium because the comic is inside some plastic that says it is a 9.8. If you take it out of the plastic it could be be a 9.8 or a 9.6 or even a 9.4 if you sent it back in for grading. The values assigned to the different grades should reflect the arbitrary nature of grading. You buy the book, not the grade.

It would be one thing to remove the color touch if it was poorly done and then get it restored professionally. But THIS, this is an abomination. The fact that someone would ask for this is bad enough. That someone that makes a living off the hobby (that you would think has some respect for the hobby) would agree to do it is worse. This is the kind of thing that confirms all the negatives; that it is all about making as much money as possible. How the heck can there not be any Grader's Notes? Any book that has restoration removal (especially if it was done by CGC) should have it noted.

I think the subjective nature of grading is part of my problem with it. If yesterday's 9.6 can become today's 9.8, or when individuals can successfully re-submit over and over again fishing for a higher grade, it is more art than science. At that point you are grade collecting, not comic book collecting. I'm not sure that is good for the hobby. Sure, because the book wasn't worth that much. Now that a 9.6 is seemingly worth thousands of dollars, there may be a few more getting graded. Maybe one or two of the 6 TT #12 9.4s that were last graded in 2004 or 2005 would grade at a 9.6 now? And the TT #14 is not even the highest graded copy so why is it worth $5K now versus the $375 it sold for in 2021? Is the 9.8 copy now worth $65K? Schrödinger's Comic Book: It is worth both $100 and $10,000, you won't know until the bidding is over

Those Teen Titans are wild. Those prices are simply dumb. Teen Titans #14 in 9.6 sells for $240 in 2019 and then sells for $5040? $8400 for TT #12 that only has 34 on the census? $6000 for TT #13, last sale of a 9.6 was $256 in 2020 and their are only 36 on the census? These books are from 1968, is it really possible that these are the only high grade copies in existence? This is some high level stupidity. This is Beanie Babies dumbness.

When a movie costs $200M and you spend $100M on advertising and then the movie makers only get about 50% of the actual ticket sales, you apparently need $600M just to break even! Completely agree here. They should never have eliminated the characters of Iron Man and Captain America. RDJ and Chris Evans would have been hard to replace, but if you can replace Connery as Bond, you can replace anybody.