trademarkcomics

Has anyone ever done an estimate on how many separate customers submit to CGC in a given year?

On 12/23/2023 at 8:15 AM, Bo1983 said:

It puts doubt in peoples minds what’s in that slab is not the real thing and I’m sure people are worried!

I feel this is still localized within the CGC fan community and spreading slightly elsewhere. Casual collectors(which still make up the bulk of potential CGC customers) are completely unaware of this situation. Until it hits the media, it's not going to have any measurable impact. Google "CGC" then hit the news tab and all that comes up is a publicly traded pot company. 

I just got charged extra for two books that CGC changed from Modern to High Value(X-Men 266 and DC Comics Presents 26...apparently worth more than $400???), so I know CGC is still active. This guy gets away with murder for years and I get "caught" trying to slip two comics by in the wrong tier? 

On 12/21/2023 at 3:22 PM, WestcoastDAVEngers said:

I need some help here just cause my glasses wearing stupid eyes can't confirm.

The asm 194 9.8 Briva sold on 10/3/23 and the second set of pics is a 9.6 that sold on ebay on 4/29/23 

Wrap is the same, notch below the bar code is the same, the mark on back is the same (although it does appear on at least 1 other book) 

but the giveaway to me is the top, you can see in the hi-res photos that it has some red spray, and you can faintly see it in the 9.6 - BUT the white notch is in the same spot above the "CS" in Marvel comics group

 

Not saying this isn't more of their nefariousness, but I myself have sent in older case books for a press and a regrade. 

But carry on...

On 12/21/2023 at 2:53 PM, jsilverjanet said:

they probably ran out of purple ones and used blue ones

didn't they once run out of regular slabs and used magazine

Stop scaring me...it's not nice. 

On 12/21/2023 at 1:06 PM, mephistopheles said:

You have too much faith in law enforcement. I doubt they will do anything.

They will definitely do something if he used his real name, his own credit card, he turns himself in and both CGC and eBay provide all of the evidence in a box with a cute little bow on it. 

On 12/21/2023 at 12:55 PM, skybolt said:

Unfortunately, half the grader notes I get from CGC make no sense (albeit for much cheaper books). I would agree that 9.6/9.8 candidates are the best for these shenanigans since they have no grader notes to compare to.

I was thinking more along the lines of the 3.0 to 4.0 difference in grades, which would show up on the records. Sending it in makes it all look 100% legit. 

On 12/21/2023 at 12:47 PM, skybolt said:

Unfortunately, it doesn't even need to involve taking the bold move of re-holdering books through CGC. If someone has figured out a way to remove inner wells without damaging the slab, they can technically buy an ASM #1 CGC 4.0 and an ASM CGC 3.0 restored. Do the whole switcheroo thing, and make a couple of grand just like that.

I think the pertinent issue here is that they are doing this to make sure the grader notes match up so there's no question as to the "validity" of the issue they are selling. 

Folks, I know I just said that the silence is deafening, but there could be another possibility(however remote) for the lack of response by CGC:

The silence is deafening...

Vintage shipped. Modern batch of 25 moved to G/E/I. 

Vintage to G/QC and Modern batch of 1 to G/E/I!

On 12/20/2023 at 11:29 AM, comicwiz said:

Trying to come up with solutions here requires more than just rolling-up their sleeves. 

If we believe that someone has found a way to explot the reholdering process, we need to examine the areas that have convoluted this to the degree where it can allow this type of exploitation to occur.

Historically, what this means is a two-part tamper evident case design. The inner well, which contains the comic and label. The outside, hard plastic holder or slab. When combined the two form the basis of CGC's tamper evident slab. 

The design has changed since 2000, but the one inherent issue that remains is the possibility of the outside holder being damaged, either during transit from mishandling or accidental dropping at a show. These things happen.

The one other issue is the possibility of comics inside the inner well shifting in a manner where they can sustain minor damage, and sometimes all the way to serious structural damage.

So in this instance, it appears someone has found a way to subvert the process by allegedly sending a lower grade book, likely still sealed witin the inner well, with a label showing a higher grade than it's believed to merit. 

When that person submits their complaint, it might sound something like "hey I noticed you didn't note it's a MJ variant." Oh, and btw, the case arrived crack when I got it. He's instructed to send it in. It's believed that during the process of reholdering, the book is taken for the submitters word, put in a new hard case with an updated label. 

The methods or approaches may vary with mileage, but generally this is the gist of it.

How much of this lands on a decision, where the submitter may have opportunistically chosen a lower grade with blunted/soft corners or the kind of damage that could happen from shifting? When the receiver at CGC notices this, how much of this is CGC remembering the submitter told them the case got damaged, and perhaps not wanting to need to address the downgrade, and deciding at that moment, to just proceed with a reholder despite the book looking lesser in grade than the label indicates?

When we talk about solutions, we need to maybe lift away some of the veneer here to expose some of the splintering, ugliness and truth about CGC's slab. Having an in-house conservator/presser and fixer of all things like this can only go so far in situations where damage is sustained inside a slab. If this person has exposed what we believe is going on, then it's also an exploitation of things left for too long with not enough attention and thought in correcting before someone figured out a way to game it.

I agree with making some kind of a change, but every change CGC makes to their cases costs one hundred billion dollars to implement, so I doubt we see anything soon. 

Of course, you can always count on GPA to count these as legit sales...

On 12/20/2023 at 7:02 AM, WolverineX said:

are 9.8s really 15k books?

No. 10k maybe. As someone pointed out, now that they have been outed as scammers, some heroes are "winning" these books by overbidding as a way to police this seller. 

On 12/20/2023 at 6:54 AM, trademarkcomics said:

I've been buying/selling MJ insert copies for years now. I will say there is a way to verify some books(not all) as MJ insert copies without looking at the inside of the book. Obviously there is simply seeing the insert is there by looking at the edges, but there is also another way to make sure the insert wasn't simply thrown into a regular copy. As I have pointed out on the MJI thread here multiple times. If I was able to figure this out, I would have to assume a company whose sole purpose is to grade and verify comics could have figured this out as well. 

 

Just my ...

By this method, I can say at most of the MJI books this seller has been recently selling are legit MJI copies...just not necessarily legit 9.6/9.8 grades(the ASM 252 is laughable). So I think they are inserting actual MJI variants into the regular 9.8 copy holders, resealing them, then sending them off as MEs(Mechanical Errors).

I've been buying/selling MJ insert copies for years now. I will say there is a way to verify some books(not all) as MJ insert copies without looking at the inside of the book. Obviously there is simply seeing the insert is there by looking at the edges, but there is also another way to make sure the insert wasn't simply thrown into a regular copy. As I have pointed out on the MJI thread here multiple times. If I was able to figure this out, I would have to assume a company whose sole purpose is to grade and verify comics could have figured this out as well. 

Just my ...

Just saw this thread. Crazy. If there is a loophole, you can guarantee someone will exploit it. But my general rule of thumb is this: if it looks too good to be true*, it probably is...

(*like a FN/VF book getting a 9.8)

On 12/19/2023 at 10:10 AM, Stefan_W said:

I cant see mine either. This happens from time to time and is no biggy - will probably be back up in an hour or two. 

Thank you for easing my mind. My worry was some hacker wiped CGC's servers...

Actually submissions are not showing now. Hopefully some sort of maintenance and not a sign of impending apocalypse...

My submissions page:

"We haven't received any submissions from you in the last 8 months."

By submission number:

"An unexpected error has occurred. Please refresh the page to confirm that you are signed in and then try again."

On 12/19/2023 at 7:53 AM, Stefan_W said:

Update - My F5 key is almost completely worn out from constantly hitting it as I check for movement to the next stage.  

I feel ya...

Vintage moved...