I have been part of a couple art collectives which included designers, musicians, artists, etc. This struggle to define the 'creator' of something as either the person who came up with the idea or the person who put it in physical form was very real within the collectives ...and probably the main reason why these collectives always disintegrated..co creator would work for some projects but for those who only generated an idea..it was difficult to give credit and that caused a lot of drama. And this was usually because the physical manifestation of the idea was several degrees removed from the original idea. I can understand Neal Kirby's frustration with Stan Lee because what I think he is trying to express is that an idea requires many stages to become reality and all those changes are as valid as the original spark, and in some cases, moreso. I don't know anywhere in which the original idea (alone) is credited with so much value as we see in Stan Lee's self defense. Nobel Prizes are not given out to people with an idea..you have to put the work into it (in the form of publishing). Entertainment awards are not given to ideas but to the actual released projects (to the public). I think Stan Lee contributed a great deal to the comic world..but so did Jack Kirby and he deserve the accolades and credit also.