William-James88

On 1/12/2024 at 11:12 PM, Lightning55 said:

 

The scans are not of the ungraded book, but of the graded, encapsulated book.

Thank you, I had missed the distinction. 

On 1/12/2024 at 2:14 PM, EastEnd1 said:

You may be thinking of "invasion of privacy" instead of defamation.  I don't think businesses that hold themselves out to the public have very strict privacy rights though.  Again, I'm not a lawyer so I defer to them.  As far as defamation goes...

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject ...

 

Interestingly here though, it says nothing about intent or knowing that the speech is false... it speaks to saying things in a "negligent" way, which I don't believe requires intent.

You're right, defamation does not require intent. That was a big discussion point in the many recent Dominion defamation cases.

On 1/12/2024 at 2:09 PM, mosconi said:

I remember hearing some CGC youtubers say there was no way you could switch out a CGC book in the new cases.  They were adamant that it was an improbable if not impossible scam method that people were dreaming up and that something else was going on, like insider CGC help to pull it off. 

I remember that as well. Tring to remember if the video I saw was from Gem Mint or not. Been a while.

On 1/12/2024 at 1:20 PM, comicjel said:

I think CGC should start printing a high resolution scan of the ungraded book on the CGC label (maybe even front of book on front of label and back of book on back of label) - I think it would make things safer.

They already have a high quality scan of the ungraded book which links back to the cert number so what you are asking for is already in place. It does make things safer for the future. The issue is with all graded books before this was recently put in place.

On 1/12/2024 at 12:35 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Well ya, that is the discussion these vidoes are having  it would be weird to think ( if you've watched some of them) that it is just how to deslab and get the raw.

That isn't what "these videos" discuss, and I shouldn't have to clarify. Not saying "CGC will" but they have every right too.

And that is all I have to say about that  but thanks to the precious videos, that are "MUST SEE" AND OH WOW"! 

I now know how to do it too, and I wish I didn't  

That's fine. And no, I didn't watch the videos. I was just reading the forums and they were nearing what seemed like Black and White rules for what should be posted, but I misread that.

On 1/12/2024 at 11:53 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm of the opinion videos that show and describe how to undo cgc holders on the internet shouldn't be allowed, not only here but also on youtube. This is a lousy excuse for said videos, and any other company with videos being made ie KFC secret recipe, weapons, and etc wouldn't be allowed.

Using this to somehow shame cgc into a 3rd party trying to be hired as an independent contractor to help their company with quality slabs is pennywise and pound foolish.

That is what most people see it as, whether they would say it or not. 

I'd at least put the asterisk of "undoing CGC holders in a way to scam". Because videos of undoing CGC holders in general have been beneficial to me since I wanted to remove comics from their slabs (for space, signatures, CPR) without causing damage to the book or myself.

Here are 2 books I own which I could send back to CGC for mechanical error.

The Detective 400 has CK Elite Edition erroneously written on the top and the B&B 200 does not mention that it's the Canadian Price Variant.

For now, both are part of my personal collection, however I could one day sell them. And for that bit, I want to know if those two errors would in any way matter to potential buyers. At the same time, if I were to send these in, would a buyer be hesitant of 9.8 reholders now that there is a scandal. AND would CGC pay closer attention to this mechanical error request, now that there is a scandal, and thus potentially regrade my comic. I'm playing a 4-D chess game of stupid anxiety in my head over this and was wondering your opinions.

FYI, for the Brave and the Bold, having it correct would boost it in the census from 1 out of 293 to 1 out of 5

https://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=Brave+and+the+Bold&publisher=D.C.+Comics&issue=200&year=1983&issuedate=7%2F83
 

On 1/11/2024 at 10:15 PM, HighGrade said:

With people bringing up Comic Book Station, someone found a listing and CGC wrong book error and they removed listing after someone contacted them. I think I saw this mentioned a week ago in someones Youtube comments, anyway it was a Captain Atom 83 CGC 6.0 from 1977 the 35 cent Modern Comics version, but the CGC label was "wrong" it showed it as the original 1966 12 cent Charlton version, They had it up for sale as the 1966 version by mistake. Not really a big deal, but I just thought it was interesting with people bringing them up, I was like hey I remember that name. here is the link, it was about a week ago. I never knew there was so many error labels until this thing hit I started looking into stuff, even found errors in the subs from the 350.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115965985978

 

Oh man, CGC issues TONS of wrong labels. Here are two slabs I have on me just as an example, and I'm about to write a topic asking the community for advice.
This Detective 400 has CK Elite Edition erroneously written on the top and the B&B 200 does not mention that it's the Canadian Price Variant.

 

On 1/12/2024 at 11:12 AM, Nick Furious said:

It would matter to me because the defense discovery process would hopefully clear CGC of any legal wrongdoing, inside man, favorable treatments, etc.  Without an opportunity for the defense to get on the record, these things remain suspect.  CGC will always own the slab portion of this, but someone also has to own the criminal portion of this.    

Yes, you are 100% correct on this. 

On 1/12/2024 at 11:10 AM, wiparker824 said:

I agree with a lot of this but I don’t think it needs to be an either or. Both can and should happen. Punishment for the individual is a deterrent to some degree. I’m not saying it should let CGC off the hook, but if you tell people “keep trying to trick us, the worst that will happen is a slap on the wrist and you lose your annual membership” you’re inviting a lot more problems. If people know the individual(s) responsible were facing federal crimes it may deter some people. Not all, but some. Hopefully in addition to that additional prevention measures on CGC’s end will take place. But again I don’t think this needs to be an either or debate. 

Oh, 100% Sorry if I wasn't clear (I do see how I was not), I was only relating to how the punishment didn't reassure me as a customer. But yes, of course, every angle should be investigated and no culprit should get off easy.

On 1/11/2024 at 10:14 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

They're supposed to.

I sent a purple label comic in for a signing and it came back blue, so I dunno. 

On 1/12/2024 at 10:18 AM, mosconi said:

If CGC wants to retain any credibility after all is said and done, they'll need to prosecute this individual/persons involved to the full extent of the law (jail time) and set an example to the comic world that this nefarious behavior will not be accepted or tolerated now or in the future.

This part makes 0 sense to me in terms of causality. CGC is not the victim, only the people who trusted CGC are the victims. CGC is an unknowing accomplice because the only reason this discussion is even happening is because CGC released a book into the wild where the holder was not indicating the proper content (this ASM 252).

As a customer, knowing that CGC prosecuted this person to the full extent of the law does not in any way make them more credible to me. I don't see how it would make anyone feel better, all it does is remove blame on their part. I don't care if the nefarious behavior is accepted or not, I care far more about the nefarious behavior being possible or not. There will always be bad actors and scammers, prevention is the key, punishment does nothing to make me feel better about anything. All punishment does is tell the bad actors to smarten up about how they undergo their nefarious activities so that they don't get caught.

EDIT: Of course, I don't think any culprit should get off the hook, this is not an either or. I am simply referring to what solutions would make me personally feel better about continuing my business with CGC.

On 1/11/2024 at 6:17 PM, StewartCA said:

I hope this is the right forum.

 

I received CGC slabs today.

9.4, 9.4, 9.0, 9.0

There are no notes as to why. I check the registry and they come up with no notes as well.

Has anyone else bumped into this issue?

Stewart

yes, notes are not a given and aren't complete even when you get them. It's not a standardized CGC feature or something one can expect.

On 1/11/2024 at 9:07 PM, comicsbuysell said:

I was wondering if anyone knew what kind of spotting this is. I'd like to remove it if possible. Dry cleaning produces nothing, no dirt or mold spores.

 

 

There is no way to remove this/reverse this at the moment

It's called "bleed" and doesn't affect the grade, refer to above if you want a lot more on the subject.

On 1/8/2024 at 6:14 PM, Ryan. said:

Are my kids the only ones begging me every weekend to take them to the nearest postcard show? 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgiphy.com%2Fexplore%2Fspit-take&psig=AOvVaw1esQC_8zzvmWRp622TxXfR&ust=1704842260306000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBEQjRxqFwoTCLDMwrz2zoMDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

I didn't even know Postcards were a collectible market.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:25 PM, AndyFish said:

My long way of saying naysayers and doom predictors have been a big chunk of the comics market for as long as I can remember, and if anything it means a collapse of prices would mean a Tec #27 might sell for $500k instead of $4M but I agree with all the sentiments here, comics are unique from stamps and coins because of the emotional connection we collectors have to them.

As someone who had an emotional connection to my stamp collection, I find that rather dismissive. It just so happens that the comics you bought kept having demand greater than supply throughout the years and you are using that causality to mean something else. The same can't be said for collectors who had an emotional connection to Miller's Daredevil or Byrne's X-men, which were at a time selling for more than they do now when taking inflation into account. Also, tons of kids have had emotional connections to their sports cards over the years and yet that didn't stop a crash in that market. I remember being very attached to my pokemon cards and my hockey cards in the 90s, all purchased at the same time. Had I kept my pokemon cards in great condition, they'd be worth a nice sum today while my hockey cards are not worth the paper they are printed on.

It's a boring answer but in the end it's all about supply and demand. Some of the demand may be based on an emotional connection but if there is another source for sustained demand (like perceived value, which we see with precious metals)  then that's what will stop comics from collapsing. If all generations to come keep thinking/believing that Spidey 194 and 300 will keep going up in value, making the demand greater than the supply, then that book won't collapse, even though there may be no emotional connection to it.

On 1/2/2024 at 11:11 AM, Kripsys99 said:

Whether or not it would actually hold water, I think the argument for a class action would go something like this:

CGC, through recklessness and/or carelessness in its reholdering process, encapsulated fraudulent books  (ie: lower grade books than were specified on the labels) - facilitating the sale of those books to the unsuspecting general public, and causing a loss of consumer faith in the CGC brand. That avoidable loss of faith in the CGC brand - possible only due to CGC's recklessness and/or carelessness - has devalued all CGC encapsulated books, and undercut the very service which CGC customers paid CGC for to begin with (ie: independent verification and grading of CGC encapsulated books). Therefore, everyone who has ever paid for CGC's services should be eligible for recompense.

Yes, that is exactly how it would go. 

It being a collectible market that succumbs to trends, I don't see anything a law office thats big enough to take on Blackstone would find worthwhile/interesting.

The reason why the "damages" are minimal is because the comic industry has a universal grading standard (overstreet) which can still be used to assess value in a market. And thus your CGC'd comic doesn't inherently lose value since you could still sell it on it's own merrit if faith in CGC proves to quantifiably plummet (sell the book, not the slab).

On 1/2/2024 at 10:34 AM, Iconic1s said:

Is it also true that all the “victims” would need to find each other and sue together?  I think that is how a class action works, OR there is enough in it to get a big law firm interested, set up a registry where people can join in, etc.  Again, I’m not an expert on class action lawsuits but I don’t think either of these are likely scenarios.

Either people get together and visit a law office about this or a law firm gets wind of this and seeks to add plaintifs.

But either way, the damages aren't high enough or obvious enough for this to be a worthwhile endeavor.

On 1/2/2024 at 8:15 AM, BlancoBros said:

Totally guessing here, but if there is a class action lawsuit, cgc could offer a credit per slab. 

CGC is already offering compensation for the confirmed books. I don't see any worthwhile case for a class action lawsuit against them.

On 1/1/2024 at 10:56 PM, WolverineX said:

False.  Cut out the middlemen, aka insurance companies,  drug companies,  healthcare administrators, venture capitalists buying up doctor practices.... they are getting richer and richer while doctors are getting blamed for the rising costs. 

I read the inclusion of "Healthcare providers" in the post you quoted as insurance companies too since people are getting their Healthcare through them.

Your buying a slabbed comic, no more no less. Not all 9.8s are created equal, and if you find an issue that makes it not as nice as others, then so will others when it comes time to sell, so keep that in mind.

On 1/1/2024 at 8:10 PM, grendel013 said:

I'll take first cover appearance over first appearance 9 out of 10 times anyway.

So you not a fan of Spidey 300 as a venom first appearance key? 

To be frank, I find 299 to be more important/key than 300. If both won't have venom on the cover, might as well own his first full appearance with 299.

I'm in