William-James88

On 12/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, BEAUMONTS said:

I wonder how many Ffffssss Black Rock give about comics.  Any respectability CGC ever had is long gone.  It has been proven over and over again with multiple issues from damaging historical books for the sake of "improved" grades, gift grades for "Pedigree" collections and major auction houses, horrible grading especially as of late, and outrageously egregious quality control.  This "scam" is just a symptom of a broken business , it was going to happen sooner or later with what seems nobody at the rudder. 

https://www.magiquiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/giphy3.gif

On 12/27/2023 at 12:54 PM, agamoto said:

This... A million times this. It's now the most reasonable explanation for 9.8's that everyone objectively agrees aren't even close to a 9.8

Gonna disagree on this one simply because of how widespread and varied, in terms of book value, that was over time. CGC messing up at times feels more probable than an organized comic crime ring that did this on random books sold from a multitude of stores. 

It certainly doesn't explain this 9.8 with spine ticks, for instance,  which couldn't have been scammed the same way due to it being a signature series.

Plus there's the idea that 9.8 means mint from the printing press, so it can include bindery tears and colour breaks, as people discuss in one of the many "is this a 9.8?" threads on the site.

To be clear, I am not saying the spidey 252 that sparked this is legit, it isn't.  I just do not think we are looking at the same scam happening all the time everywhere. I feel that absolves CGC too much.

On 12/27/2023 at 1:14 PM, The_Investor said:

Someone here should contact one of the big media companies and make sure they cover this scam. The legacy media will contact CGC for further info considering this could be a scam on a larger scale most people think. Make sure the Media outlet is not owned by Blackrock considering they want to reshape the world in their image...lol

Why would this be picked up as a news story when worse issues haven't? This is just the latest oopsie from a grading company which made thousands of oopsies, just like any other grading company has.

On 12/27/2023 at 12:32 PM, Steven Valdez said:

It's not something I used to worry about. I thought CGC was at least basically competent and secure.

CGC missing that something is missing (or mislabelling something) is a common error among people who opened up their purchased slabbed books. They have never been 100% competent. If you didn't worry about it before, no use worrying about it now. Just don't open your purchased slabs.

On 12/27/2023 at 12:14 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

If someone uncovers a high value / high grade early SA key book that is indeed a Purple book in as blue label that's gonna set things off. 

Already happened, and CGC's business has only grown since

On 12/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, Steven Valdez said:

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

This has literally been an issue with slabbed books since the beginning. If the uncertainty of your pin ups not being there didn't stop you from buying a slabbed book before, I don't see why it would stop you now.

On 12/27/2023 at 8:42 AM, 1Cool said:

Isn't it the law in Canada that you claim the cost of each item that comes into the country so they can tax you?  Saying certain packages under a certain size probably won't be opened isn't exactly screaming that people should follow the law or most of what you posted would be moot.  I'm not Canadian but I always post the actual price of books on Canadian packages for my own piece of mind.

I get wanting to write the full price for insurance purposes but I hope you also state it's a "used" book though as the taxes on used items is much less since the items were originally taxed when purchased new . 

On 12/26/2023 at 2:27 AM, DougC said:

I generally ship to Canada on my dime; but will not lie on customs forms. This usually dissuades people from outside the US who do not want to pay tax; so I will offer an amazon/local store gift card when contacted. If worst comes to worst and you are at the bottom with no one left who wants to ship let us know and there are people who will step in to assist.

It's too bad that the customs form does not have a gift option. The ones shipping from Canada do. That would help out because these are all indeed gifts.

On 12/26/2023 at 7:21 AM, Ryan. said:

If someone outside the US gets stuck with no available picks, don't worry about it. You'll get something.

On 12/25/2023 at 9:45 AM, Ares said:

Silly Question but what happens when our turn comes and as a foreigner all we have left are those who wont ship outside USA

I had the same question a few years back when I did this, but with about a third to half of the entries being ok with shipping to my area (canada), then it works out. But if you are in the UK or in Asia, and picked in the bottom half, then it could become an issue. But so far people have always come through, even if it's a gift card or pay pal card.

Looks like I'm right down the middle, we'll see what happens. Also very generous of the members that such awesome prizes ship to my country (also, someone is donating an Al Bellman, holy cow!)

On 12/23/2023 at 1:08 AM, drotto said:

Until someone with deep pockets and 100k's worth of books takes them to court. You advertise as a grading expert that certifies books and condition, the law will treat you as an expert. 

I could also see a lawer bring a class action suit on the same basis.  This is the US, people love to sue, and we have lots of layers looking for work.

I can see tables of grading experts called as witnesses to argue over books in court.  Could be very entertaining.

The problem with a class action lawsuit is that you have to prove that the plaintiffs sufferred a loss. And as far as I know, CGC always comes through in making people whole monetarily. I had a terrible experience with CGC where they switched my book with a lower grade one. I was compensated by receiving more than the estimated market value of my original book and could now simply obtain a slab of the book I sent if I chose to do so. As a collector who has a personal attachment to his books, I still simply wanted my book back, and I will not send in more books unless when I choose to part from them (and have the auction house do that for me). But in terms of a legal case, I was made whole financially speaking, I experienced no financial loss. And any anguish I had didn't result in any therapy bills. And as for the book in question, if the person doesn't feel it's a 9.8, and can return it to get their money back, then they are not at a loss either. 

As for the comments on it being a credible company, all I meant to say is that due to ample past examples, and the fact that our comics are encapsulated, none of us can be 100% certain that what we own is truly as is stated when purchasing a slabbed comic(ie: unrestored, pinups included, all pages included, no married pages, ect) . BUT if we keep it slabbed, then we pass that uncertainty over to the next buyer when that day comes. If the general consensus is that CGC is the best in the business (which is the current case), then my individual beliefs on it not being credible don't really matter. And nothing stops one from partaking in the slab market without believing in it.

My initial comments were simply based on the pearl clutching I was seeing here as if we haven't had plenty of past issues. There were some pretty crazy hyperboles being thrown around.

On 12/23/2023 at 12:17 AM, thehumantorch said:

In a way they did by not making a statement....

I'm pretty sure that as far as they are concerned, this is just a comic in a 9.8 holder that doesn't look like a 9.8. However scammy way that may have happened, that's the end result. And that happens all the time and they never respond to that at a public level. It's basically buyer beware.

On 12/22/2023 at 9:35 PM, jlouque said:

Toro isn't in the list, though I know he posted his contribution being ASM #318 Newsstand CGC 9.4 on page 11 of this thread.

@The Sledderthere's your number 4

On 12/22/2023 at 11:12 PM, migmtl76 said:

Did CGC actually make a statement ?

no

On 12/22/2023 at 10:12 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Where as "we just keep screwing up, we've always been this way" would actually make them look more incompetent.

I dunno.

But they do just keep screwing up and have always been that way as I showed in my post. But it hasnt mattered so far. I don't see how this is what breaks the camel's back rather than is just being same old same old

On 12/22/2023 at 7:53 PM, VintageComics said:

What was the timeline on that?

I don't think this is Dylan, but that public discussion could have given people reading the threads ideas to exploit that avenue. 

The Dylan stuff happened before and this isn't him. I was just noticing that the scams we see tend to feature special labels. Like there's an exploit there. Might just be a coincidence though with the only exploit being that wanting a specialized label that didn't exist before is an easy excuse to try to get away with switching labels. Looks less fishy to CGC than just wanting a reslab.

This is a pretty good scam though. Buy a book, remove the certificate, stick it onto a lower grade book and ask for a reslab. And send the other book seperately another time raw. You get two high grade books in return. This whole Mark Jeweler thing takes me for a loop though. The initial slab was sold off, so how did that person know that it was mislabeled and should say it has an insert?

Shenanigans aside, this whole thing brings up a big fundamental issue I have with buying these kinds of slabs. You are buying a comic that is rare for having an insert and yet you can never truly validate for yourself if the insert is there. It's like Shrodinger's comic.

On 12/22/2023 at 7:45 PM, Buzzetta said:

Dylan if I recall... right? 

Yup, that was one hell of a scam

Hi, several lots don't have a specification on shipping. I was burned on this 2 years ago when we had this raffle. The one I picked backed down on shipping to me and gave me cash instead. That defeated the whole purpose of me picking them. 

So before more fill out the form, can the people participating please make sure they are clear on where they are willing to ship?

Also, some people use the word "overseas " and its not clear either since 

A) we don't know where you are shipping from

B) does that mean neighboring countries are ok for shipping to?

I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but these scams tend to feature the use of custom/specialized labels.  We saw something like that previously with purple labels changing to blue by using this recorder tactic.

I didn't realize we were talking about slabs until I read the first post, was gonna post a pic of my wife.

Here's what will be sent to you (if you are in the US or Canada) if you pick my lot.

On 12/2/2023 at 8:20 PM, Tom789 said:

Ah, a chance to expound!  This goes to the recent topic about "Why do some books get graded that I think should not get graded?"  In my case, I'm retired and returning to the hobby after a 25-year absence, so grading is a novel and interesting thing to me. I have some disposable income, and I regard cleaning, pressing and grading my old books and some of the raw books I buy now, as my main form of entertainment.  I'll send these books in even if it's probably a break-even or slight loss.  I'm not a dealer, I don't need money, and so I have no profit incentive.  As an example, here's my latest 25-book submission result, including the book we're talking about.  I guess many here on this forum wouldn't submit most of these books because it doesn't make economic sense, and that's a fine opinion to have, but I don't think it fits me.  In this submission, there are a couple of books I wouldn't have submitted had I known how low the grades would be (FF 37, Batman 178).  They had defects I either did not see, or occurred after they left my hand.  I'm curious how many of these books you would have submitted.

 

 

I am not the right person to answer that question since I don't make it a habit to submit books. I only do it as part of signature series or if I think it will get a high grade, or if I want to solidify a pedigree. Because I just don't have the space for that many slabs in my home, it's crazy how quickly a long/short box fills. And I personally preffer the look of my books in mylars. So while I do own several slabs, the majority are books I bought and not stuff I sent in. And funny enough, some of the slabbed books I bought I removed from their slabs. 

But none of that is meant to judge in any way, it's just to explain where I'm coming from with slabbing. And I was just curious about your pick.

Turns out you and I have a lot of the same books. I am really curious to see if those two yellow costume Daredevil books you sent ever go up in value. I know I love them and think they are underappreciated.