Yeahiwasder4dat

Just played around with it for a few minutes for and giggles. Much quicker and more efficient than the previous monstrosity of a sub form. Good change.

On 10/7/2021 at 9:52 PM, iSniipe said:

Sub arrived today, expected it tomorrow so nice little surprise.

Another surprise was opening the box to unknowingly find that CGC had changed their labels… 

thanks so much for informing the all of us submitters about such a change…. Not too upset but some communication would be ABSOLUTELY amazing. 

What do you mean they changed their labels?

On 10/5/2021 at 2:23 AM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

You should never see a CGC slab with a AC designation because AC means Altered Card (or altered in a way that it prevents encapsulation), and AC cards don't get slabbed, only altered cards with a Green Label, but those would not be considered AC by CGC.

I got you. I thought the AC labels were just a no grade equivalent but could still be encapsulated. Making a little more sense now. They just don't have anything that's an "Auth" label. Either can be graded with qualifiers like "marked"/inked, etc or or not at all. I haven't seen a break down of what they do/do not have so I was trying to relate it to equivalent cards I've seen graded. Thanks.

@PaulS.

On 10/4/2021 at 9:31 AM, PaulS. said:

Receiving a CGC label back with a raw card does not mean the card is authentic. In fact, we send back labels that say NG (Not Genuine) all the time. These labels of course could not be used again as they are printed with the card information that is tied to our internal database. 

The only way in which CGC guarantees the authenticity of a card is if it is still sealed in its original CGC holder. If a card is returned raw, like these were, we are not making any claims as to the authenticity of the cards. Could they still be authentic? Of course, and I am sure they are. But because they were cut in a way that can be seen as deceptive, we will never put them in a CGC holder. There is no room for debate on this. We simply will not be doing it because, intentional or not, they are made to look like a different issue. 

As for the inking issue that was brought up, inking to hide wear is of course deceptive, but it is not done in order to alter the card to make it into a more valuable type; but rather to appear to be a higher grade. That is why those will still be graded as if the inking wasn't there, but they will go into a Green Qualified label with the issue noted on the back.

A similar example would be a fake 1st edition stamp added to a Pokémon card. Even though it might have the same amount of additional ink applied as a card that is inked to hide wear does, its the attempt to make it into a different card altogether that is the main issue. That too would be returned as altered.

 

Thank you,

Paul 

So whether or not it's encapsulated depends on the alteration? In this case collector edition cards have square cut corners instead of round but because it looks more similar to an alpha/beta it won't be encapsulated even if there isn't malicious intent?

It's less of the fact that it's altered, and more so because the alteration just makes it appear as a different card? I would have assumed if it wasn't auth, it would've gotten a NG instead of an AC. Although this doesn't apply to me in Magic cards but I was struggling to understand the difference as I sub sports cards as well and those are far more often doctored than Magic/Pokemon and the same standards are probably applicable to CSG.

Like for example a trimmed 1960/70 card would get an AC grade and be slabbed, but if you stamped something to make it look like a more rare version for example it wouldn't be but might get an AC label as well?

That's probably not the best example as I can't think of any of those that were stamped. Let's say instead, someone removed the "Reprint" part on the back of a card. As that would dynamically change the card and it's value to make it appear as a different card.

Asking less about grading, but in terms of what I might need to be aware of of I see a slab with an AC designation vs someone with a raw card. Would it would mean there's a larger underlying issue if someone is selling one that isn't slabbed, and I should avoid it? I buy a lot of them as well.

On 10/3/2021 at 4:32 PM, Kusig said:

I just keep waiting and checking back for Paul to chime in and clarify that the opinion given was that it was altered and not authentic hence why it wasn't put in a case.

Wouldn't be "altered" if it wasn't auth.

On 10/2/2021 at 5:33 PM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

You just don't get it.  You asked them to authenticate the cards, however, because the cards were "trimmed"/dimensionally altered (not to deceive though), they are NO  LONGER authentic as far as CGC is concerned.  One of the standards for a card to be deemed authentic by CGC is that the card is dimensionally the same as it was when issued by the manufacturer, except in instances of mfg error/miscut.  You basically handcut the card, and thus it is no longer authentic, because as I said previously, if CGC deemed it authentic, then they are deeming the modifications you made as authentic.    CGC does NOT have a Green Label qualifier of "dimensions altered", so thus you can't get a grade of Authentic Altered.

And stop talking about not paying for a graders opinion and paying for a 3rd party company's secure opinion.  They are interchangeable and mean the same thing....

The title of you post is incorrect, they DO encapsulate authenticated cards, it should say they don't encapsulate Authentic cards that have had the dimensions altered by hand!   Alas as I said, because the cards have changed dimensions, CGC does not consider them authentic from an official stance, only in jest if they tell you in email, but they will not slab it and guarantee it.

Again, when you spoke with customer service on the phone asking about getting the cards authenticated, were you adamant in telling them that you had mutilated the cards dimensions by hand that you were going to send them?

As it stands, you paid for and got a "secure" (in quotes because not slabbed) opinion.....  The opinion being that the cards are dimensionally altered, thus NOT authentic per CGC's policies.

I'm assuming because most other services have a version of this, that's what he was wanting. Trimming a card doesn't make it less real which is the point behind the "Authentic" label. While being ungradable in the sense of a numerical grade, it verifies that it is indeed a legitimate card.

Generally speaking in card grading "Authentic" status doesn't really have a lot to do with what the alteration was, color, cutting, etc, that prevented it from receiving a numerical grade. It's simply a yes or no on whether it was an original card. Then price is based on eye appeal.

Some cards still have value whether it's trimmed or not if it's rare, and people simply want to confirm that it's an originally printed card regardless of condition. 

Unless they expressly say on the sub page that they don't encapsulate Authentic/Altered cards he probably feels like he was mislead and paid for nothing.

Example being this with the border being to small. Can't get a numerical grade, but just being Authentic makes it worth a decent chunk of money.

On 10/2/2021 at 12:46 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

 

Top Cat is correct.  The Green Labels are called Qualified.  Those usually mean there is some defect with the graded item that CGC recognizes and notes, but they do not detract from its overall grade for its qualifier. 

Most common examples in comics.

Hulk 181 has a Marvel Value Stamp inside of the book that a lot of people cut out. When it is cut out CGC will grade them as if it still had them, but will note missing MVS. 

Next would be Signatures that were not witnessed by CGC. Those usually will note "Name Written on Cover/First Page Etc" on the Label and they will grade them as if the Signature was not there. 

Some of these are hit and miss as CGC can also grade the exact same books and detract from the grade for the qualifiers and give them a Blue Universal Label.(The still note the issues on the label)

The site and submission suggest that you can request between getting the Green and Blue Label. When they were not as busy as they have become now , they used to reach out to you and ask would you prefer to get a Green or Blue Label.  

Strange to me that a card can receive a grade for being touched with ink but not trimmed under Auth/altered. Such is the case with most other places.

On 10/2/2021 at 3:51 AM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

CGC does authenticate cards, cause they wouldn't encapsulate a fake card.  But I don't believe CGC encapsulates cards where the dimensions are altered, or for the most part "hand cut" cards.   I believe that as a matter of standards, CGC does NOT slab anything that has been trimmed or altered dimension wise.  What you are asking for is a "grade" of Authentic Altered, but that is not a grade that CGC offers.  Yes, other companies do, but just because they do doesn't mean CGC automatically does.   When you called in, were you VERY specific that you were going to submit altered/mutilated (jk) cards?   When you made your submission, did you put somewhere that you wanted them graded as Authentic altered?   CGC could NOT just encapsulate them as Authentic because that would not imply that they were altered, rather that would imply that they were legit as issued cards, and again, they don't offer an altered authentic designation.

As far as the grader is concerned, he was given cards to grade and during grading "discovered" that they were altered, thus you got back the cards with altered flips in card savers as they were not eligible for encapsulation, just like when PSA sends cards back as min size or not authentic. The grader took time to look and investigate/grade your cards, thus you got to pay the man!!  Unfortunately you expected a service that CGC just does not offer and doesn't say on the website that they do.  (Again, I don't know how specific you were with CGC on the phone, but in reality this is something that should have been done over email so there was a track record for recourse, if warranted...)

 

Some had a green label Venusaur on here. He was probably expecting something like that. Let me see if I can find it.

On 6/25/2021 at 4:38 PM, Iceman399 said:

We got a batch back last week.  Variety of mainly WOTC with some newer mixed in that the wife couldn't resist opening.

Bottom right. Only green label I've seen. I'm not a comic person, but isn't that equivalent of altered? I wasn't aware that it was specifically limited to size like trimming. He was probably expecting something like that.

@onlyweaknesskryptonite know you're a comic dude. What is the green?

On 9/30/2021 at 1:41 PM, CGCRyan said:

@Yeahiwasder4dat All bulk submissions are currently on an estimated 139 working days turnaround. CSG always works off the current schedule listed here.  PLEASE NOTE: Turnaround times are estimates only and are NOT guaranteed.  Your bulk submission would be running on the current CSG turnaround times which are at an estimated 139 working days. Feel free to reach out to CSG customer service at Service@csgcards.com if you need further assistance.

Customer service said it would be done in August. Then they said it would be done in September. Surprise, surprise it's not done.

So what, the 139 day "estimate" is both for what's being sent in and already there?

On 9/28/2021 at 12:16 PM, CGCRyan said:

@dmaune That is correct.  If your bulk submission was delivered in June then your estimated turnaround time would be from that date.  Bulk submissions are currently at an estimated 139 working days.

So are the turnaround times retroactive in terms of an order sent in 139 days ago is going out the door today? Cause I'm sitting at day 127 from an order April 2nd when it was 80. Can't get a straight answer on when this thing will be completed.

On 9/30/2021 at 1:35 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

I can definitely understand the frustration of them not encapsulating the card, but to be frustrated with others here who sympathize with your plight or are trying to understand are not the problem. Nor should they bear it. 

Next I would not compare the value of an altered Beta Black Lotus to a altered International Collector's Edition Black Lotus  even if both are valuable they are not on the same level. 

That said I do agree that it is concerning that they would go through the process of printing a label and not encapsulating it. This should be clearly defined on their site when submitting and if not then they should either offer to encapsulate them at no added charge or refund as this is not ok. 

I agree with @Qalyar in comics this would be like a NG or a Resto coming back with the label, but not in a case. 

I agree with this. I have some items encapsulated, through other services, that even in an "Authentic" no grade state are still worth decent money due to rarity alone. It defeats the purpose of having the label when it isn't encapsulated. A potential buyer is going to look at it through the lens of " I don't know for certain that this label goes to that item".

While we don't know every detail of the scenario, I definitely see where he's coming from. It's more of a liability sending him an unencapsulated label than it would be to have slabbed them in my opinion. As he said, what's to stop someone from selling that label with a fraudulent card with the sole purpose of scamming someone. Maybe not a liability for the company in a legal sense, but for whatever poor person might be buying an item like that.

On 9/29/2021 at 10:34 AM, Drew99 said:

One thing I learned in my issue with CGC when I contacted customer Service before submitting my cards because I had some alters, corner trimmed collectors editions, (CGC does not encapsulate authentication… they give you a label in a top loader believe it or not.  That’s their service)

Anyways… my story is important because there are details here, very specific ones which CGC should be able to answer right because the specialize in only MTG and Pokémon really.  
 

Here’s the problem.  They are in a que within a larger collective.  I realized this very early on because I am a coin collector primarily and came to this company by way of NGC, which I will also no longer be a part of when my membership expires.  
 

The person answering your phone and the number you have if you get aN email from them is part of a collectibles group that does allot of things.  
 

Now I’m not expecting to talk to a grader… but I do expect to be able to ask a person at the company about their company’s policies with some specificity such as… what is an altered card?  Your website says it is “anything changed to be deceptive”  that seems weird…  and not accurate but okay… 

turns out I did get and answer… and it turned out to be inaccurate and I spent hundreds of dollars and months of time to find it out.

If you call PSA,you are talking to a business that specializes in grading cards.  If you call this place… you are dealing with a baseline customer service person.  They do the best they can with the information they have.  But there are 10 different companies, the kinds of issues and questions are very specific and they simply don’t even know anything about cards in general.  Most of the people I talked to were very nice, extremely.  They didn’t know what a magic card was other than it was a game that people play…that’s about it.

 

You mean similar to an SGC ""A" label, or PSA "Authentic". Where the card is altered and doesn't warrant a numeric grade but is an actual real card?

On 9/29/2021 at 9:58 AM, Ron Churches said:

So, it's pretty common to build customer service rules around refunds to do stuff like this as the first pass. Companies are very resistant to refunds, in general, to combat fraudulent requests. But, boy, sometimes you need to have a customer service manager be able to read the room, and this was one of those times. Paul is PRODUCT management, but he's running around here doing the CSM's work. If /I/ had my own grading company, the CSM would be living on these boards. Maybe not responding to it all, but I'd sure as heck understand where my process was breaking down (and this was a major process mishap). It would be so easy for this to be done more effectively, I cannot imagine how they could screw it up.

I feel like he does a lot of stuff unrelated to his job trying to help us out.

Isn't the first time I've wondered why they don't have a dedicated person on the forums trying to cover it. I would think he's high enough up there to have more pressing things to do than deal with issues like this. I'm thankful he takes on the task though. Don't think we'd have anyone if not for him 🤣

On 9/28/2021 at 12:23 PM, intlnews said:

I have hundreds of comics that I am trying to unload.  Just sold a few on eBay and one buyer claimed I sent an empty box. So, I lost the claim with eBay and the buyer now has his money ($450) and my comic book.  I'm done with eBay.  Any suggestions on where to sell some stuff.  I'm mostly trying to unload comics from the 1950's - 1990s.  

I'd contact the postal inspectors. I've had it happen a few times.

On 9/29/2021 at 8:33 AM, Rob420 said:

im gonna just have to wait for all my other subs to come back and honestly ima crack a lot of my 9.5s and resub them elsewhere . 

They might have some resell value by then 😂

On 9/29/2021 at 3:55 AM, Fiacs0.o said:

I'd say they probably guarantee anything that'll get your money into their pockets, and nothing related to a pop report or customer service 😡🤬

What gets me is the wording. They sound like they're doing you a favor to give you a $50 credit after giving you the shaft. Assuming that you did everything properly, that would have me worked up just on how patronizing that email is 🤣

On 9/28/2021 at 7:45 PM, Fiacs0.o said:

Just received the reply today. A $50 credit for 'next time' and basically her going back on what was agreed. Not even close to good enough.

Membership credit doesn't seem to have been applied either.

Will just use socials in future for updating people, especially those in Australia who are getting railed with your $100USD shipping charges.

You literally charged $100 to send 1 card. Then another $100 to send the remaining 9. I'm done.

I'm beginning to wonder what they do guarantee. 

On 9/28/2021 at 11:47 AM, Kingl33 said:

I'm a new customer and this would be my very first time grading anything. I'm planning on grading some of my pokemon cards. So I have a question about the Max Value, how would I know the value of a card? Would it be the value of card that isnt graded? Or is it say the value of the card via TCGPlayer? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.

-Alex

I'd use eBay or TCG. It's for raw value of the card for insurance purposes.

On 9/28/2021 at 12:06 PM, dmaune said:

So my turnaround time should start back in June?  if that's the case I'm still on schedule to get them back when I wanted them just a little confusing that it's labeled "received date".  Should be an entered date and a received date for clarification.  

Turn around times are wildly inaccurate. 156% over the estimated time on this last order, and that would be if it shipped today. I wouldn't expect, hope, or otherwise think that it'll be anywhere near the current time frame.

Walk through and express seem close to accurate, but other than that it's anyone's guess.

On 9/28/2021 at 11:10 AM, KBost33 said:

I used to be excited and anxious about getting orders done, and seeing grades. Now I just assume the grades will suck, and I am never disappointed.  I don't expect to see 10s from CSG, my new game, is trying to guess how much money I wasted per order on sub-grades (all of it).. and to guess how much they let me down. Never disappointed that why. 

At this point, don't care what the grades, QC is like. They can slab them upside down and give them 1s for all I care. Sent in on 80 TAT. Sitting at business day 125, still hasn't shipped. Just need them back 🤣

On 9/17/2021 at 7:07 AM, JACK0114 said:

For those wondering about time frame, here's how my order has progressed thus far.:

50 Card Bulk 

Delivered to SGC 04/05/21

Marked as received by SGC 06/04/21

Enters G/E/I stage on 06/18/21

Enters grading/quality control 09/16/21

 

Will update when it moves to stage 437 of the 982 stage process. Turnaround times were projected at 90 business days when they received. It has now been 119 business days. 

 

Don't get your hopes up

Your stuff get shipped yet?

On 9/27/2021 at 9:02 PM, Againh3x said:

I did get an email with the tracking number, but there doesn't seem to be a link on where it says "shipped"

Ive noticed it doesn't have a link if it's USPS. FEDEX does, not sure about UPS as I haven't used them for a return.

On 9/27/2021 at 1:28 PM, jwhauser said:

Lots of haters in here. 

I'm sure for the same reason:  takes a little bit of extra time to record the information and then place those scores on the label and online.

Can't get a Perfect 10 w/o subs. Seems a little suspect.

5 days, and $10 a card?

On 9/27/2021 at 12:40 PM, joe_signs said:

 When did your bulk enter GEI? I am  happy to see bulk moving along. I have two bulk subs that were received almost one month ahead of yours that are still in scheduling. Did yours just move?

That's a CSG order not CGC. That's why I stated it in the original post to avoid confusion. It was just in reference to them billing way in advance, and getting a different story every time I ask for a timeframe on it returning.

CGC order delivered the same day hasn't moved since then.