Best idea ever ??? Clear backing boards !!! 1 1

[VintageComics]

Many people have never heard of deacidification but it also is a very viable alternative.

 

It basically consists of spraying paper with a deacidification spray which if I am not mistaken is just chalk - a very calcium rich and therefore alkaline substance.

 

It sounds horrific but it's actually a recommended way to preserve paper when trying to prevent breakdown because of acidification of paper.

 

What's the cost? Does it take expertise to do, or can anyone buy the spray and apply it assuming they're moderately careful?

 

You can actually buy a can and do it yourself, apparently.

 

(thumbs u

 

This was at the top of google when I searched "paper deacidification spray".

 

Read away.

 

 

[casarachi]

I wish this type of forum was around back in those days!

 

I am not trying to promote the product here, I am simply informing about "transparent backing boards". That they did/do exist.

 

You can spoon me all you want, I would spoon anyone/everyone I could to protect my comic investments!

 

The following year, 1999,(& till now) I was looking/waiting for any/all comments that said "CLEARS IS GOOD OR BAD". I am not saying there aren't alternatives, I am looking for "the best" one.

 

I am grateful for the OP bringing this up and ALL "constructive criticisms". As well as the comic relief! Thank you!

Edited June 27, 2012 by casarachi

[The_Captain]

Many people have never heard of deacidification but it also is a very viable alternative.

 

It basically consists of spraying paper with a deacidification spray which if I am not mistaken is just chalk - a very calcium rich and therefore alkaline substance.

 

It sounds horrific but it's actually a recommended way to preserve paper when trying to prevent breakdown because of acidification of paper.

 

What's the cost? Does it take expertise to do, or can anyone buy the spray and apply it assuming they're moderately careful?

 

You can actually buy a can and do it yourself, apparently.

 

(thumbs u

 

This was at the top of google when I searched "paper deacidification spray".

 

Read away.

 

 

Would this be considered restoration?

[casarachi]

I suppose the absolute "sure" thing, IMO, if one is worried about which plastic/transparent board is best, would be to put a comic in a mylar with a "regular old cardboard backing board", then remove the board after insertion.(revealing the back of the comic) Then put that mylar inside another larger mylar(magazine size) with a backing board of ANY rigid plastic between the two mylars. A little extra expense but.....who cares when it comes to books you want to protect without worries. This way, you have backing but your front and back cover touches only the mylar.

 

You could use a mylite for the interior mylar. If you were going to use a regular comic bag for the interior bag, then I don't believe the material of the transparent board will matter. A bag inside a bag approach with plastic backing between.

 

I am actually eliminating the need for LEXAN with this approach. Unless you want strength.

[fantastic_four]

One thing that Lexan has going for it is that it's cheap, though.

 

Casarachi claimed it's around five times more expensive than Mylar--you disagree, or do you mean as compared to competing brands of rigid material?

[casarachi]

LEXAN is cheap $?

 

It's bullet proof in 1/4 inch! (120 mil)

 

 

[burntboy]

This thread is a hoot for me. Started to read it from the very beginning, but then ran into a post from Old Guy and immediately realized that it all started over 4 years ago.

 

The idea is a very interesting one and for display and Shows (less need to open the package to inspect the book) would seem to have merit.

 

I guess that my main concerns would be; weight and how effectively the deacidification process would be with only micro chamber paper.

[VintageComics]

Many people have never heard of deacidification but it also is a very viable alternative.

 

It basically consists of spraying paper with a deacidification spray which if I am not mistaken is just chalk - a very calcium rich and therefore alkaline substance.

 

It sounds horrific but it's actually a recommended way to preserve paper when trying to prevent breakdown because of acidification of paper.

 

What's the cost? Does it take expertise to do, or can anyone buy the spray and apply it assuming they're moderately careful?

 

You can actually buy a can and do it yourself, apparently.

 

(thumbs u

 

This was at the top of google when I searched "paper deacidification spray".

 

Read away.

 

 

Would this be considered restoration?

 

No, of course not. You're just adding what is basically chalk as a coating to preserve the paper.

 

If people want their books to last 100's of years the first thing they should be worried about is somehow slowing down the acidification process.

 

That is done by using the right materials, climate control, additives (like paper, backing boards and spray) or a combination of those things.

 

Obviously not everyone is going to do it for their entire runs but if I had a really nice artifact like an Action #1 or similar, I'd probably look into the best method of preservation possible.

[fantastic_four]

No, of course not. You're just adding what is basically chalk as a coating to preserve the paper.

 

It seems that you're new here, so hello, VintageComics, it's great to meet you--welcome to the boards! You may be unaware of this, but people around here have formed entrenched sects with regards to what they believe is and is not restoration.

 

Deacidification is additive whereas pressing isn't. From that perspective, some might think of it as being more of a restorative measure than pressing is, and plenty of people define pressing as restoration.

[mschmidt]

One thing that Lexan has going for it is that it's cheap, though.

 

Casarachi claimed it's around five times more expensive than Mylar--you disagree, or do you mean as compared to competing brands of rigid material?

 

Just in general ... price-wise, you can't really compare Mylar and Lexan straight across due to one being sold in sheets and one being sold in film rolls.

 

I use lexan as the "glass" when I'm doing picture frames for cheaper items - it's slightly more expensive than plexiglass, but has higher impact resistance.

[VintageComics]

No, of course not. You're just adding what is basically chalk as a coating to preserve the paper.

 

It seems that you're new here, so hello, VintageComics, it's great to meet you--welcome to the boards! You may be unaware of this, but people around here have formed entrenched sects with regards to what they believe is and is not restoration.

 

Deacidification is additive whereas pressing isn't. From that perspective, some might think of it as being more of a restorative measure than pressing is, and plenty of people define pressing as restoration.

 

I would be more worried about whether CGC would deduct a grade point for having a chalk film than I would about it being restoration.

 

And yes, thank you for your warm welcome to these boards.

 

What is pressing?

 

Also, what are these sects and should I run if I see torches approaching me quickly?

[fantastic_four]

I use lexan as the "glass" when I'm doing picture frames for cheaper items - it's slightly more expensive than plexiglass, but has higher impact resistance.

 

What kinds of things do you frame? Any idea what people with Da Vincis, Van Goghs, Picassos, etc use for the plastic in their frames? Or do they tend to avoid layers over art entirely?

[casarachi]

LEXAN is the trademark name for Polycarbonate from GE, which DUPONT also makes, and I think DUPONT may have created first(a week before GE). I tested DUPONT vs GE and found GE to be of much higher quality. The Dupont brand is cheaper to buy than GE, which I demanded ONLY GE LEXAN. My sales rep tried to push the DUPONT on me but I wouldn't take it. I wasn't interested in saving money and putting out an inferior product. I don't believe all POLYCARBONATES are created equal. Whatever the difference, I think GE calls this a "trade secret".

 

______

 

I just did a quick search on LEXAN, (this info didn't exist back in those days - average person internet was just coming into play), but apparently, there are different grades of polycarbonate. GE was the brand used by the APOLLO astronauts space helmets and is the TOP GRADE polycarbonate. It's not cheap. I think cost was $96 for a 60 mil 4x8 sheet which cut into 48 boards. When I purchased 1000 sheets, I got it for a little less, enough where I could beat the average persons price who would buy at most, a handful of sheets. Anyone can go out and get a sheet of 60 mil LEXAN (untreated needs to be ordered, they don't stock it. They stock UV/Scratch resistant or DUPONT), and then you need to cut it up, but it will cost you $2/per board, then you need to precision cut it. (which is a pain).Thus my price was $2.50/board. So what I offered was convenience and top quality polycarb. There wasn't a lot of profit in it at those prices. I doubt the prices have come down. At that time you needed to buy $500,000 worth to save .25 per board.

 

[chrisco37]

I'm a bit of a conservationist geek

 

Understatement of the year!!!

 

I suppose I actually meant "nerd"--I'm no geek, I'm actually quite suave and coordinated. Don't make me come to your house and dunk on you in your driveway.

 

 

No hoop. No driveway for said hoop either (at least for a few more days).

[mschmidt]

I use lexan as the "glass" when I'm doing picture frames for cheaper items - it's slightly more expensive than plexiglass, but has higher impact resistance.

 

What kinds of things do you frame? Any idea what people with Da Vincis, Van Goghs, Picassos, etc use for the plastic in their frames? Or do they tend to avoid layers over art entirely?

 

Mostly sketches, original art and high-end lithographs. Anything worth less than, say, $200 uses Lexan or plexiglass for glazing - above that, I use Tru Vue's Museum Glass (which is glass) or Tru Vue's Optium Museum Acrylic (which is plastic).

 

The latter, the Optium Museum Acrylic, is pretty much the default option for museums and high-end art galleries - it's also pretty friggin' expensive.

[fantastic_four]

I'm a bit of a conservationist geek

 

Understatement of the year!!!

 

I suppose I actually meant "nerd"--I'm no geek, I'm actually quite suave and coordinated. Don't make me come to your house and dunk on you in your driveway.

 

 

No hoop. No driveway for said hoop either (at least for a few more days).

 

Well I can't dunk right now anyway, so maybe I'll be at it again by the time you get a hoop up. Talking about it the other day jazzed me up...I played Saturday and Sunday and am planning to play Thursday and Friday as well. Tough to stay in shape playing once a week, I need to do it at least 3-4 times per week to stay in shape only via basketball.

[fantastic_four]

I would be more worried about whether CGC would deduct a grade point for having a chalk film than I would about it being restoration.

 

And yes, thank you for your warm welcome to these boards.

 

What is pressing?

 

Also, what are these sects and should I run if I see torches approaching me quickly?

 

Can CGC detect deacidification? I used to know the answer to that but haven't thought about it in 5-10 years and forget.

 

Don't run when you see the presser-haters pull out the torches--turn and fight them. It's a lot more fun for the rest of us to watch if you do.

[VintageComics]

I'm a bit of a conservationist geek

 

Understatement of the year!!!

 

I suppose I actually meant "nerd"--I'm no geek, I'm actually quite suave and coordinated. Don't make me come to your house and dunk on you in your driveway.

 

 

No hoop. No driveway for said hoop either (at least for a few more days).

 

Well I can't dunk right now anyway, so maybe I'll be at it again by the time you get a hoop up. Talking about it the other day jazzed me up...I played Saturday and Sunday and am planning to play Thursday and Friday as well. Tough to stay in shape playing once a week, I need to do it at least 3-4 times per week to stay in shape only via basketball.

 

Tell me about it. I'm heading out to play for an hour now before the soccer game starts. Used to play 4-6 times a week. Now if I get out once in a week I'm lucky.

 

 

[sckao]

 

I'm interested in not long-term storage but how to best display a book for SHORT-TERM storage and for resale.

 

A problem at conventions is pulling a book in and out of its bag repeatedly for potential buyers to look at. This may be a good idea for high value books but for books less than $100, it's frequently not necessary.

 

If you can clearly see the back cover through Lexan, but have the rigidity of a fullback (which is only 42 mil vs the 60 mil we're talking about with Lexan), that would potentially be a good way to display and protect rack books.

 

 

 

[casarachi]

Ok, I have done some reviews of what I said and would like to explain the plastic costs (mylar bag vs lexan backing board) mil to mil. Mylar was about .01/mil Lexan was roughly .02/mil.

 

Back in 1998, upon inquiring the big manufactures, the cost to make a mylar bag I believe they are 5 mil? Was $.10 in raw materials to manufacture a mylar $0.05 for each part of the two parts that are needed to make a bag.) Cost was roughly $0 .10 for 10 mil total. The retail at the time for a mylar bag was about $1.00. This is around a 10 X mark-up from cost. So, there is room for a middle man.

 

LEXAN sheet in 60 mil cost me $1.16 for each unit. Therefore, using the same markup In a retail setting would have made CLEARS list at around $11.60/unit, Thus, at my 2.50$ list, there wasn't enough profit in it for the stores who were used to the larger price difference between cost and retail. Little or no room for a middle man at this cost/list price ratio.

 

So, MYLAR and LEXAN , raw materials, mil to mil. (lexan 60 mil $1.16 cost, mylar 10 mil total $0.10. (5milx2 or cost of 10mil =$0.10 x 6 = 60 mil would be $0.60.

 

Then you need to add shipping to the distributor, then shipping to the retail outlet.

 

But this may have been the key to my initial success was selling direct, rather than going through the distribution that increases the list price needed to carry the product in a retail setting. At that time, I don't believe folks would have spent $10.00 to get one backing board.

$2.50 in quantity was my target retail price I thought people would be willing to pay.Though I am sure some would have paid that higher price, I didn't see the collecting masses catching on to easily.

 

But weight to weight comparison, I believe mylar was about half the cost of lexan.

 

Hope I didn't screw this up!

 

I did release 30 and 40 mil lexan clears at the request of customers but they are not rigid, and "give" a little like the traditional board.