ARE WE SINKING?

[joe_collector]

that low to mid grade books are more for collecting than investing; when keys start dropping, then you know there's a problem with the hobby.

 

This kind of comment scares me, as without the collector base, you have a house of speculator cards that is just itching to crumble.

[drbanner]

Someone is always predicting the end of all things.

 

If by "Someone" you mean JC, and if by "always" you mean six straight years on the boards, then yes, this is true.

[jools&jim]

...low to mid grade books are more for collecting than investing...

 

Back in the late '70s and early '80s, one of Geppi's old store managers--a well-respected veteran collector who had forgotten more about old comics than most of us will ever know--used to say that strict VGs were the single best grade to buy: they were affordable and still looked good enough to be worth collecting, but were also not so perfect that you were afraid to handle or read them. Of course, his baseline assumption was that his customers were actually, y'know, reading the older comics they bought.

 

VG...the best grade to buy. Can you imagine a store owner today making that same claim, and his customers actually listening to him? (And for those around here who are too young to remember the oil crisis of '79 and the recession of '80 - '82, the US economy was no great shakes back then, either -- but that never stopped my friends and I from loading up on mid-grade back issues whenever we could.)

 

I can't prove it, of course, but my educated suspicion is that there are fewer and fewer low/mid-grade guys out there every year (like Mac Man and the ol' Riffer here) who aren't put off by Fair-G-VG-Fn SA & BA books (and not just the keys), and more and more high-end grade chasers. Whether or not this is "good" for the hobby is another question entirely...but I'm pretty sure I know how I feel about it...

[jools&jim]

Well, kudos to you Mike for enough insight to know that your experience isn't gospel.

 

(I done been to gradual school, too...)

[arexcrooke]

Part of the problem with eBay is just filtering through the crapp - there is just so much stuff and so many crappy dealers, and then throw in the dealers with great stuff who can't package the books to survive the trip to you. It is a minefield.

 

And this is somehow different from any other time on EBay....

 

Or, try to buy HG books from Bob Catent on eBay, and feel the pain of greggy snipes

 

Is that Bobcat?

I think so.

[buttock]

 Originally Posted By: Lego

Like I said, I think it would be very interesting to hear back issue sales data from some store owners.

 

Go read the OS dealer reports, and many are saying the same thing - high-grade and CGC is rocking, but the rank-and-file collector is disappearing.

OS dealer reports - ever the source of truth. And an excellent cross-sectional representation of most comic dealers...

[joe_collector]

OS dealer reports - ever the source of truth. And an excellent cross-sectional representation of most comic dealers...

 

In terms of hype I'd agree, but when these guys actually say something negative about their biz, it's usually the truth.

[jools&jim]

OS dealer reports ... an excellent cross-sectional representation of most comic dealers...

 

Maybe not most comic dealers, but the last time I looked at it (admittedly some time ago), it seemed like many (most?) of the active show dealers I know of were represented. Aren't those the guys who are doing the bulk of the buying and selling of old stuff these days?

[buttock]

 Originally Posted By: buttock

OS dealer reports ... an excellent cross-sectional representation of most comic dealers...

 

Maybe not most comic dealers, but the last time I looked at it (admittedly some time ago), it seemed like many (most?) of the active show dealers I know of were represented. Aren't those the guys who are doing the bulk of the buying and selling of old stuff these days?

Doug Sulipa's report is great and truthful, but it represents a breed of collector much different than you or me. The remainder of reports - by and large - are people trying to hype what they have, hype their business (just read Metropolis' report), or the occasional doom & gloom, woe is me report (Greg White from years ago comes to mind). It's to their detriment to report any niche as slow or uncollectable - that would be the death knell to sales. And although they may represent what you see at the big shows, they don't represent what you see at the much more common little shows, or the bulk of brick & mortar shops that make up the overwhelming bulk of comic book sales (by number).

[Mac Man]

 Originally Posted By: Mac Man

that low to mid grade books are more for collecting than investing; when keys start dropping, then you know there's a problem with the hobby.

 

This kind of comment scares me, as without the collector base, you have a house of speculator cards that is just itching to crumble.

JC, cut it with the jumping to conclusions. You know what I meant--take a look at my past posts and you know I'm not an investment collector. Sheesh! My POINT is that when people stop caring about the BIG books THEN the hobby has a real problem on its hands. The beater/reader books (like what Mikey and I like) are straight disposable income books; something not everyone has much of given today's market which probably accounts for some of the drop in eBay sales of these sorts of books. And no kidding you went to grad school Mikey! I'll let my "grammar" guard down now and then here on the boards, but you're much tighter in that regard. Didn't you work as an editor before?

[jools&jim]

Doug Sulipa's report is great and truthful, but it represents a breed of collector much different than you or me. The remainder of reports - by and large - are people trying to hype what they have, hype their business (just read Metropolis' report), or the occasional doom & gloom, woe is me report (Greg White from years ago comes to mind). It's to their detriment to report any niche as slow or uncollectable - that would be the death knell to sales.

 

And although they may represent what you see at the big shows, they don't represent what you see at the much more common little shows, or the bulk of brick & mortar shops that make up the overwhelming bulk of comic book sales (by number).

Agreed...except for the part about brick and mortar shops making up the bulk of comic book sales. For new books, recent (modern) back issues, trades, toys, gaming cards, etc., etc.? Yeah, sure, no doubt. But for GA - BA? Not these days, at least not in my experience. I'd wager to say that more old books sell on these boards in a single day than move out of the average LCS in several months or more...assuming they have the stock to begin with, of course...

[jools&jim]

Doug Sulipa's report is great and truthful, but it represents a breed of collector much different than you or me.

 

But isn't that precisely the kind of collector we're talking about -- i.e., the hard-core guys who just want to complete their runs of Millie the Model or Jingle Jangle Comics, and don't really need to have the best, most perfect examples in existence? If that's a "different breed" of collector, then it's probably true that what was once the bottom and middle base of the hobby is shrinking...

[Mookeylama]

Our hobby is very healthy.

 

Ebay is the problem.

 

When you have sooooo many great choices of great places to sell comic books on the net, why choose Ebay the "flea market" of comic book selling?

what are some of the best places to sell? auctions, consignment? or the best ways to sell? start an auction low w/ reserve or start at what you're willing to take?sorry, i'm a long time collector but have very little selling exp. unless you count the indoor fleamarket booth back when i was 10 .

[jools&jim]

It's to their detriment to report any niche as slow or uncollectable - that would be the death knell to sales.

 

If I were a slick and savvy OS reporter/adviser (BIG leap there on all fronts), I'd report the books that I wanted to BUY as slow and uncollectable...but that's me...

[MR.COMICBOOK]

 

actually when was the last time the US economy been great shakes ?

seems like its always been crappy. when were the good old days for the economy?

[Mac Man]

Actually, in the months following 9/11 the US economy was recognized as being in a minor state of recession with most of the problems falling on industry and finances (if I recall properly). However, I don't think there was anywhere near the same level of problems with the housing market so combine them together and you have 2007-2008.

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

Originally Posted By: buttock- "OS dealer reports - ever the source of truth. And an excellent cross-sectional representation of most comic dealers..." In terms of hype I'd agree, but when these guys actually say something negative about their biz, it's usually the truth.

 

So when they're positive, they're lying; but when they're negative, it's the truth...?

 

Classic JC mentality. (thumbs u

 

Rick

[esquirecomics]

Our hobby is very healthy.

 

Ebay is the problem.

 

When you have sooooo many great choices of great places to sell comic books on the net, why choose Ebay the "flea market" of comic book selling?

I agree that the comic book market is very healthy, but I don't agree that there are so many better places to sell comics than on ebay. For one thing you need to be far more specific in making such a statement. For HG CGC books that are over $1,000, ebay is usually not the way to go. That is true. But in general ebay can be quite competitive and offers part-time dealers like me an easy place to go to sell lower grade, lower dollar items. I almost always offer books here on the boards first and if they don't sell I place them on ebay at 20%-30% higher, and they still sell.

[JohnT]

Agreed...except for the part about brick and mortar shops making up the bulk of comic book sales. For new books, recent (modern) back issues, trades, toys, gaming cards, etc., etc.? Yeah, sure, no doubt. But for GA - BA? Not these days, at least not in my experience. I'd wager to say that more old books sell on these boards in a single day than move out of the average LCS in several months or more...assuming they have the stock to begin with, of course...

 

Totally agree with this. Not that we have great LCSs in central Ohio, but every one I've visited sell very few back issues. For one thing, they tend to overgrade and overprice. But beside that, they just don't seem to even try, ie. don't even promote collecting back issues.

 

On the issue of how the midgrade market is doing, I think it's bigger than people realize and has obviously grown exponentially with the advent of Ebay. The high grade sales get the headlines, but every day thousands of midgrades (or low grades) are swapped on the bay and other sites. And anecdotally, I don't find the competition dwindling for the Atom, SA, and BA books I collect.

 

 

[buttock]

I lived in Columbus for 4 years - you're definitely right about no back issues there.

 

Bookery-Fantasy, on the other hand...