Copper age key issues 3 3

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

Crisis on Infinite Earths was DC's response to Marvel's Superheroes Secret Wars.

 

[Bosco685]

Crisis on Infinite Earths was DC's response to Marvel's Superheroes Secret Wars.

That's why I'd be surprised if history says the Copper Age kicked off with a response mini-series, even though it had a larger impact to the DC Universe as a whole.

[Boozad]

Hi I'm new here .I agree that Saga of Swamp Thing #21 is a key copper age book.I like to add Saga of Swamp Thing #37 in the key copper age books to get.The only key copper age books I can think of are New Mutants #87 and #98,Amazing Spider-Man #238,#239,#252,#300,Watchmen #1-12,Miracleman #1-24,and Wolverine (first ongoing series) #1 and #10.Those are the key copper age books that I know of.

 

WTTB (thumbs u

[sakaridis]

Crisis on Infinite Earths was DC's response to Marvel's Superheroes Secret Wars.

That's why I'd be surprised if history says the Copper Age kicked off with a response mini-series, even though it had a larger impact to the DC Universe as a whole.

 

The way I've heard it, Crisis was in development for at least a couple of years before Secret Wars came out.

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

Crisis on Infinite Earths was DC's response to Marvel's Superheroes Secret Wars.

That's why I'd be surprised if history says the Copper Age kicked off with a response mini-series, even though it had a larger impact to the DC Universe as a whole.

 

The way I've heard it, Crisis was in development for at least a couple of years before Secret Wars came out.

 

Guess I could say my kids are in developement since I lost my virginity in high school back in the 80's, but I don't have any yet (that I know of).

[sckao]

Crisis on Infinite Earths was DC's response to Marvel's Superheroes Secret Wars.

That's why I'd be surprised if history says the Copper Age kicked off with a response mini-series, even though it had a larger impact to the DC Universe as a whole.

 

The way I've heard it, Crisis was in development for at least a couple of years before Secret Wars came out.

 

Guess I could say my kids are in developement since I lost my virginity in high school back in the 80's, but I don't have any yet (that I know of).

 

I think what he was saying was that DC led up to Crisis on Infinite Earths by first placing the Monitor in various comic books up to TWO years before Crisis #1 came out to set it all up...

[RockMyAmadeus]

yeah...Marv Wolfman had been planning Crisis for quite some time. It was definitely not "DC's answer" to Secret Wars.

 

(thumbs u

[sakaridis]

That's exactly what I was saying. And that's the story the way I heard it straight from Marv Wolfman's mouth a few months ago.

 

I suppose one could argue that he might be lying, but I'd find that hard to believe. He struck me as a really great guy. (thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's been pretty well documented since its inception. In fact, if i remember correctly, it was NTT that really firmed up Marv's choice of George to pencil....and that (NTT) was being worked on during 1980/81.

 

No need to lie, and would easily be found out if he was.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Since the Copper Age is guesstimated to have been between 1984-1992, then New Teen Titans 1 and DC Comics Presents 26 wouldn't fit the bill as they were both published in 1980.

 

Saga of the Swamp Thing 21 was published February 1984, and it did have a fairly quick impact on the market. Saga of the Swamp Thing 20, as someone already noted, was just closing out someone else's story, while 21 kicked off a whole new origin and take on a character that had languished for a long time.

 

And, it has been noted by many in the industry that Alan Moore's success laid the groundwork for DC Comics to open up to writers such as Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison to reinvent oddball characters like Sandman, The Doom Patrol, and Animal Man.

 

Saga of the Swamp Thing 21 is a very strong candidate as THE book that kicked off the Copper Age due to its level of impact on the industry.

Let`s not forget this book. Daredevil #158, Frank Miller opened the door for Alan Moore with his writing, Frank Miller took comics to a different level.

 

[Bosco685]

Let`s not forget this book. Daredevil #158, Frank Miller opened the door for Alan Moore with his writing, Frank Miller took comics to a different level.

Totally agree that this issue is important, though Miller did not take over writing control until issue 168, which makes it double-key since this was also the 1st Elektra appearance. That is THE KEY book of the entire run because this is when Miller took the character down a darker path than seen before.

 

Not sure why CGC doesn't note that on the label.

 

158-161: Roger Mckenzie (writer), Frank Miller (penciller)

162: Michael Fleisher (writer), Steve Ditko (penciller)

163-164: Roger Mckenzie (writer), Frank Miller (penciller)

165-166: Roger Mckenzie & Frank Miller (writers), Frank Miller (penciller)

167: David Michelinie (writer), Frank Miller (penciller)

168: Frank Miller (writer), Frank Miller & Klaus Janson (pencillers)

 

Edited June 24, 2009 by Bosco685

[Aman619]

Let`s not forget this book. Daredevil #158, Frank Miller opened the door for Alan Moore with his writing, Frank Miller took comics to a different level.

 

 

you really think so? My take has always been that Alan Moore came to his own writing style and approach on his own, 3000 miles removed from our American comics, reading them from afar, absorbing their motifs and genres and creating his personal take on the absurdities and strengths and weeknesses of the medium on his own. Im not even sure he was reading Millers DD as his stories early on all played off the Silver Age DC motifs. And if he was up to date on 80s comics, his voice was well established long before than.

 

This is my opinion. If Moore has at some point given kudos to Miller over the years, ooops.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Alan Moore was writing comics before Frank Miller.

[Bosco685]

Let`s not forget this book. Daredevil #158, Frank Miller opened the door for Alan Moore with his writing, Frank Miller took comics to a different level.

 

you really think so? My take has always been that Alan Moore came to his own writing style and approach on his own, 3000 miles removed from our American comics, reading them from afar, absorbing their motifs and genres and creating his personal take on the absurdities and strengths and weeknesses of the medium on his own. Im not even sure he was reading Millers DD as his stories early on all played off the Silver Age DC motifs. And if he was up to date on 80s comics, his voice was well established long before than.

 

This is my opinion. If Moore has at some point given kudos to Miller over the years, ooops.

I didn't even catch MR.C was implying Moore learned from Miller. No way!

 

Moore is a force of creativity all by himself.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Let`s not forget this book. Daredevil #158, Frank Miller opened the door for Alan Moore with his writing, Frank Miller took comics to a different level.

 

you really think so? My take has always been that Alan Moore came to his own writing style and approach on his own, 3000 miles removed from our American comics, reading them from afar, absorbing their motifs and genres and creating his personal take on the absurdities and strengths and weeknesses of the medium on his own. Im not even sure he was reading Millers DD as his stories early on all played off the Silver Age DC motifs. And if he was up to date on 80s comics, his voice was well established long before than.

 

This is my opinion. If Moore has at some point given kudos to Miller over the years, ooops.

I didn't even catch MR.C was implying Moore learned from Miller. No way!

 

Moore is a force of creativity all by himself.

exactly Moore is a force on his own, my point was Frank Miller opened the doors for a new style of writing!

[RockMyAmadeus]

Um.

 

How can Frank Miller have opened the doors for Alan Moore, when Alan Moore was writing comics long before Frank Miller? Sure, Moore's first US comic came out in late 1983, while Miller's first written book came out in late 1980, but Miller worked for Marvel, Moore for DC, and Miller's writing wasn't recognized as anything amazing (aside from killing off Elektra) until at the earliest, Ronin (1983) and at latest, Dark Knight Returns (1986...to which I am leaning.)

 

As well, DD remained bi-monthly for several months after Miller took over. What was particularly "new style" about DD #168-191? It's typical superhero fare, with the introduction of Ninja as major story element.

 

And Moore coming to DC was almost exclusively the result of efforts by editors Karen Berger and Len Wein.

 

I really don't think Miller influenced Moore or his career in any possible way.

[Comicopolis]

Um.

 

How can Frank Miller have opened the doors for Alan Moore, when Alan Moore was writing comics long before Frank Miller? Sure, Moore's first US comic came out in late 1983, while Miller's first written book came out in late 1980, but Miller worked for Marvel, Moore for DC, and Miller's writing wasn't recognized as anything amazing (aside from killing off Elektra) until at the earliest, Ronin (1983) and at latest, Dark Knight Returns (1986...to which I am leaning.)

 

As well, DD remained bi-monthly for several months after Miller took over. What was particularly "new style" about DD #168-191? It's typical superhero fare, with the introduction of Ninja as major story element.

 

And Moore coming to DC was almost exclusively the result of efforts by editors Karen Berger and Len Wein.

 

I really don't think Miller influenced Moore or his career in any possible way.

 

Absolutely (thumbs u

 

Miller's work had no influence on Moore's writing at all, nor did it open any doors for AM or any other writers. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

 

There is no comparison between the two.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Um.

 

How can Frank Miller have opened the doors for Alan Moore, when Alan Moore was writing comics long before Frank Miller? Sure, Moore's first US comic came out in late 1983, while Miller's first written book came out in late 1980, but Miller worked for Marvel, Moore for DC, and Miller's writing wasn't recognized as anything amazing (aside from killing off Elektra) until at the earliest, Ronin (1983) and at latest, Dark Knight Returns (1986...to which I am leaning.)

 

As well, DD remained bi-monthly for several months after Miller took over. What was particularly "new style" about DD #168-191? It's typical superhero fare, with the introduction of Ninja as major story element.

 

And Moore coming to DC was almost exclusively the result of efforts by editors Karen Berger and Len Wein.

 

I really don't think Miller influenced Moore or his career in any possible way.

 

because Frank Miller wrote a new kind of mainstream comic in the USA that was unheard of, people would actually buy it as stuff like Starlin`s Warlock/Steranko`s Shield were cancelled in the past due to low sales.This showed editor of DC Giordano that a new breed of reader would not only read Alan Moore`s stuff but buy it as well.

btw re-read those Frank Miller DD`S,I bet you will be surprised at how good they hold up. also I am both a big Alan Moore/Frank Miller fan.

Edited June 26, 2009 by MR.COMICBOOK

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sorry man....the dates just don't line up. Miller's writing wasn't "that amazing" on his DD run...at least until Born Again....

 

Which, of course, is the greatest DD story ever told.

 

[sakaridis]

Um.

 

How can Frank Miller have opened the doors for Alan Moore, when Alan Moore was writing comics long before Frank Miller? Sure, Moore's first US comic came out in late 1983, while Miller's first written book came out in late 1980, but Miller worked for Marvel, Moore for DC, and Miller's writing wasn't recognized as anything amazing (aside from killing off Elektra) until at the earliest, Ronin (1983) and at latest, Dark Knight Returns (1986...to which I am leaning.)

 

As well, DD remained bi-monthly for several months after Miller took over. What was particularly "new style" about DD #168-191? It's typical superhero fare, with the introduction of Ninja as major story element.

 

And Moore coming to DC was almost exclusively the result of efforts by editors Karen Berger and Len Wein.

 

I really don't think Miller influenced Moore or his career in any possible way.

While I totally agree that Alan Moore was in no way influenced by Frank Miller in any case (and yes, this is an absolute statement!), I think you're underestimating Miller's work in his initial Daredevil run. The writing, in terms of plot and subject matter was definitely more than standard superhero fare (though I'll grant you, the dialogues still weren't nothing to write home about) and the overall storytelling (pacing, layouts, composition) were miles ahead of anything being done in mainstream comics at that time.

 

I won't argue that Miller was a great innovator (he was basically "borrowing" elements from the works of Steranko and -mostly- Eisner, while applying a Kurtzmanic sense of timing in the way the story flowed through the panels), but he did stuff that were definitely "different" compared to the average Marvel and DC comic book.

 

And even though the sales of Daredevil took a while to increase, once they did, the title became a mega hit, surpassing even the X-men for a little while IIRC.

 

But on the initial point, I'm 100% with you! (thumbs u Alan Moore was in no way influenced by Frank Miller's writing in absolutely no point in his career. Hell, I could probably argue that the reverse (Miller taking a hint from Moore) might have been true in the years after Swamp Thing and Marvelman.